Are Men Obsessed With the Roman Empire?

Cypress said:
Are Men Obsessed With the Roman Empire? Yes, Say Men.

Women are asking the men in their lives how often they think about ancient Rome. Their responses, posted online, can be startling in their frequency.

The Roman Empire began in 27 B.C. and fell in A.D. 476.

And in A.D. 2023, it went viral on TikTok.

In posts shared on social media, women have been asking the men in their lives how often they think about ancient Rome. “Constantly,” one husband responded. “Like, every day,” said a boyfriend. As of Thursday night, a thread on X, formerly known as Twitter, went on like this for MDCLXXIX messages. (Sorry, that’s 1,679.)

“I’m starting to get sick of being asked about this,” said Kevin Feeney, a faculty fellow at New York University who teaches an introductory class on Roman history. By his estimation, enrollment is about 60 percent male.

Ancient Roman society was “extremely, extremely patriarchal,” he said, and was dominated by such alpha males as Julius Caesar and Augustus, its first emperor.

But that’s far from the whole story of Rome, or of its scholars, he added. Roman society influences everything from the United States’ form of government to its language to its architecture

Many women have been shocked by the enthusiasm men display for the ancient empire.

The trend seemed to really take off last week after Kelsey Lewis Vincent of Wilson, N.C., was scrolling through social media one night when she came across an Instagram Reel mysteriously suggesting that men the world over were hiding a secret: “Ladies, many of you do not realise how often men think about the Roman Empire.”

Judith Hallett, an emeritus professor of classics at the University of Maryland, described ancient Rome as “a place where there were many different definitions of masculinity.”

But after first being exposed to the civilization in middle and secondary school, Dr. Hallett added, many men continue to consume Roman history through mass media.

In recent popular culture, Roman history has been told through entertainment media like “Gladiator,” winner of the 2000 Oscar for best picture, and the TV show “Spartacus,” which focus on battles and often appeal to male audiences. “The games you play and what TV shows you watch are informing a new audience of Roman fans,” she said.

Still, it’s not as if ancient Rome is all that men talk about, Mr. Vincent said.

“We’re not necessarily cracking open beers talking about the Roman Empire,” he said. “But it does kind of come up when we talk about who would win in a fight — a gladiatorial fight — between Thanos and Captain America.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/15/style/roman-empire-men-tiktok-instagram.html
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The Roman Empire did not fall in the fifth century. That's a Western belief. The Eastern half continued on as the Byzantine empire for another thousand years.
 
America said:
The Roman Empire did not fall in the fifth century. That's a Western belief. The Eastern half continued on as the Byzantine empire for another thousand years.
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That case can be made, but it's also true that the Germanic Holy Roman Empire claimed to be heirs to the classical Roman Empire.

The Byzantines were sufficiently different (Greek speaking, not Latin speaking, Eastern Orthodox Christian) from the classical Romans that many historians consider them on their own terms.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Actually, you're right about we Sicilians becoming Romans AFTER THE FACT.:laugh:

What's wrong with taking advantage of opportunities, though?:thinking:

One more thing. If you haven't seen the Godfather and The Godfather Part II,

you haven't experience cinema yet.

In my eight decades on this fakakta planet,
I've never seen better films.

The dining room scenes in particular delivered me straight back to my childhood.
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Saving Private Ryan is as good if not better. That said, I read the Godfather before the movie came out. Godfather II bookends the Godfather and both are great movies.
 
Cypress said:
That case can be made, but it's also true that the Germanic Holy Roman Empire claimed to be heirs to the classical Roman Empire.

The Byzantines were sufficiently different (Greek speaking, not Latin speaking, Eastern Orthodox Christian) from the classical Romans that many historians consider them on their own terms.
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But the empire was split into two halves with two emperors. The Byzantine Empire is a direct continuation of that. The people even called themselves Romans.
 
America said:
But the empire was split into two halves with two emperors. The Byzantine Empire is a direct continuation of that. The people even called themselves Romans.
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Cypress said:
I'm not sure if the Sicilians were considered genuine Romans, or if they were seen as barbaric and backwards as the Goths.

Western Europe has the Byzantine Empire and the Islamic world to thank for preserving the Roman and Greek intellectual legacy
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A great podcast series is Lars Brownworth's 12 Byzantine Rulers: The History of The Byzantine Empire

https://12byzantinerulers.com/
 
Doc Dutch said:
Saving Private Ryan is as good if not better. That said, I read the Godfather before the movie came out. Godfather II bookends the Godfather and both are great movies.
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I saw Saving Ryan's Privates in the theater as well.

It was pretty good for a war picture,
not my favorite genre, I'll admit,
and not the kind of thing I'd watch twice.

I couldn't guess how many times I've seen The Godfather.
Except for the very worst of the violence,
it's like temporarily bringing my childhood family back to life.

I've got it on VHS, Laserdisc, DVD, and On Demand.


 
NiftyNiblick said:
I saw Saving Ryan's Privates in the theater as well.

It was pretty good for a war picture,
not my favorite genre, I'll admit,
and not the kind of thing I'd watch twice.

I couldn't guess how many times I've seen The Godfather.
Except for the very worst of the violence,
it's like temporarily bringing my childhood family back to life.

I've got it on VHS, Laserdisc, DVD, and On Demand.
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No doubt you have a lot of thieves and murderers in your family history. I have a lot of military in mine. Each to their own. :D

FWIW: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls055592025/
Top 100 Greatest Movies of All Time (The Ultimate List)


I don't agree with their ranking in all cases, but do agree with most of their selections. You'll be pleased to see their #1 pick. :thup:
 
America said:
But the empire was split into two halves with two emperors. The Byzantine Empire is a direct continuation of that. The people even called themselves Romans.
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Yes it makes sense that they called themselves Romans. But over the centuries, the Byzantines evolved into something unique onto themselves, and their connection to the Latin speaking Rome of antiquity become more tenuous.

In a very real sense, by the early and high Middle Ages, the Byzantines were a unique, Greek-speaking, Eastern Orthodox empire that followed it's own trajectory compared to the classical Latin-speaking west. At least that's a case that can be made
 
Cypress said:
Yes it makes sense that they called themselves Romans. But over the centuries, the Byzantines evolved into something unique onto themselves, and their connection to the Latin speaking Rome of antiquity become more tenuous.

In a very real sense, by the earlh and high Middle Ages, the Byzantines were a unique, Greek speaking, Eastern Orthodox empire that followed it's own trajectory compared to the classical Latin speaking west.
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Seems like a good place for a non sequitur.

As a high school freshman,
at the private prep school which I only attended for one year,
I scored a perfect 100 on my Latin I final exam.

I only remember that because there weren't many of them.

[Don't ask for my math and science grades. There's a reason for my liking to talk and write a lot.]
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Seems like a good place for a non sequitur.

As a high school freshman,
at the private prep school which I only attended for one year,
I scored a perfect 100 on my Latin I final exam.

I only remember that because there weren't many of them.

[Don't ask for my math and science grades. There's a reason for my liking to talk and write a lot.]
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I don't even think Latin was an option in public schools when I went.

I have heard historians and linguists claim that Latin is fairly primitive and unsophisticated compared to Greek. One reason there was such a push during the Renaissance to find Greek versions of the New Testament and get them translated into vernacular European languages.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Any group that lasts for a thousand years is worth studying. The Brownworth series is excellent as is his Norman Centuries series. https://normancenturies.com/

I like podcasts and audiobooks because I can work outside and listen at the same time. Same goes for driving as I mentioned last year when listening to "The Rest is History": https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-rest-is-history/id1537788786
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thanks

I feel like our high school European history classes focused on western Europe and rarely ventured east of the Alps or Danube river.
 
Cypress said:
I don't even think Latin was an option in public schools when I went.

I have heard historians and linguists claim that Latin is fairly primitive and unsophisticated compared to Greek. One reason there was such a push during the Renaissance to find Greek versions of the New Testament and get them translated into vernacular European languages.
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Know what makes Latin better than Greek to me?

I can read the fucking letters!!!:laugh:
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Year-round school is an idea best considered after one has completed his/her education, right?

I don't know about Oom,
but I used to make my summer holiday count...big time.
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No. It's about improving the nation, neef.

When parents needed the kids to help work the fields and bring in the crops, summer off from school made sense. When it's just so kids can waste a quarter of the year while their parents push paper, it doesn't. Summer vacations are crammed full of people all doing the same thing in the summer heat. Most vacations only last a week or two anyway and people usually take them in early summer to avoid the dog days of August.

A more flexible idea is to break the school year up into quarters with two weeks off in between. This allows choosing the family vacation among the four seasons. Smaller crowds, more flexibility.
 
Doc Dutch said:
No. It's about improving the nation, neef.
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Once my kids have passed on, Oom,
this nation will have forgotten
the mere three generations of my line who were born here.

Improving the nation is a great idea for those who plan to stick around for a while.
I, however, cherish the memories that I have from some of the summers of my youth.

What they decide to do with the nation--
I, of course, recommend partition as you know--
is going to be up to other people.

I opine strongly on political matters mainly because
they have been among my primary interests during my adult life.

In practical terms, they only matter for a short time remaining.
Vandy Boy Earl says that I'm about to meet some guy
called The Green Reefer I believe it is.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Maybe if we had year-round school then more history could be taught.
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I don't think it's the length of the year.

I think there has always been a systematic bias to focus on the history of northwestern Europe because of our Anglo-British heritage. Teachers really get almost no exposure to the Byzantine Empire, the Polish-Lithuanian Commwealth, or Imperial Russia even in their college education.
 
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