Are You A Capitalist Scumbag?

[Fentoine Lum]

wow, that is even dumber then what the moronic op is talking about

prior to the industrial revolution, the major resource scarcity was labor. another junior high kid..joy!

Dolts can never do anything but regurgitate the corporate state's indoctrination.

The most important motive for early European exploration across the Atlantic was the dream of enormous riches.

They had to travel.

The end.

 

[coolzone]

I already know the op is a moron of epic proportions

Have him/her/it explain how we price goods and services without capitalism?

next, who/how/what decides when we need another grocery store without capitalism?

This moron doesn't have the intellect to weigh on on these subjects. he/she/it doesn't get how the world works. the problem is he/she/it is a loser in this system, and rather then look inward and see hi/she/it is a loser, they blame the system, not themselves.

For such an idiot to call me a moron is a joke. I'll give you some "punch lines." Fuck most of the goods and most of the services. People need what they need. That is all. As to the price people pay for goods, that can't be determined under a capitalist system. Because it'a all bullshit. For example, the government used to buy excess milk and cheese from farmers. Why? Because they were producing too much. In many cases, they even injected their cows with chemicals to make them produce more milk.
Why did the farmers produce so much? One reason is that they were corporate farms. As for the family farms, they produced more so they could buy things they need. But if capitalism didn't make it so fucking hard for people to get the things they need, the family farmers wouldn't have needed to do that.
Next, how many grocery stores do you need. What should decide if we need one is when one is needed. Even then, in my town, without a car or a bus, getting to the ones that there are is extremely difficult. And without a car, getting the things home is even harder.
Would you like to know what the rock bottom issue is? I gave a link to a book around here. If you read it, you would know. What people really need is employment. That was the real motivation behind the pyramids, the great wall, angkor wat, etc. etc. etc. etc. But something that I don't think has ever been done is to have people constructing things to that scale that actually directly helped people to survive and directly improve their lives.
Instead, we have an almost unlimited supply of bureaucrats who get paid much and don't produce anything tangible toward the human condition. People such as commodities or stock brokers and insurance company employees. And you think I need to look "inward?!"

 

[Fentoine Lum]

good luck convincing people that you know how many grocery stores should exist in a geographic area, or what the price of things should be.

until then, fuck off with your retarded junior high views on the world.

Why don't you calm down and tell all your friends here what happened to you in jr high?

 

[Fentoine Lum]

For such an idiot to call me a moron is a joke. I'll give you some "punch lines." Fuck most of the goods and most of the services. People need what they need. That is all. As to the price people pay for goods, that can't be determined under a capitalist system. Because it'a all bullshit. For example, the government used to buy excess milk and cheese from farmers. Why? Because they were producing too much. In many cases, they even injected their cows with chemicals to make them produce more milk.
Why did the farmers produce so much? One reason is that they were corporate farms. As for the family farms, they produced more so they could buy things they need. But if capitalism didn't make it so fucking hard for people to get the things they need, the family farmers wouldn't have needed to do that.
Next, how many grocery stores do you need. What should decide if we need one is when one is needed. Even then, in my town, without a car or a bus, getting to the ones that there are is extremely difficult. And without a car, getting the things home is even harder.
Would you like to know what the rock bottom issue is? I gave a link to a book around here. If you read it, you would know. What people really need is employment. That was the real motivation behind the pyramids, the great wall, angkor wat, etc. etc. etc. etc. But something that I don't think has ever been done is to have people constructing things to that scale that actually directly helped people to survive and directly improve their lives.
Instead, we have an almost unlimited supply of bureaucrats who get paid much and don't produce anything tangible toward the human condition. People such as commodities or stock brokers and insurance company employees. And you think I need to look "inward?!"

You don't understand capitalism. Someone has to be on bottom, a vast majority, to fund the aristocracy, just like feudalism.

 

[zymurgy]

Why don't you calm down and tell all your friends here what happened to you in jr high?

sure.

I sat for two long years having to listen to the dumbest ideas by people that had no idea what they were talking about, , much like what is happening here. It was hell!

 

[zymurgy]

Dolts can never do anything but regurgitate the corporate state's indoctrination.

The most important motive for early European exploration across the Atlantic was the dream of enormous riches.

They had to travel.

The end.

you previously said all the resources were exploited in an era before the industrial revolution. You now must realize how utterly retarded that was.

you have nothing to teach us here child.

 

[coolzone]

Capitalism is a fine start. But the ownership class wants to max profits. Just that. No care about damage they do . They also naturally morph into oligopoly on the way to monopoly. The competition we once had, provided price wars, product improvement and good customer service fall away when competition melts away. That is where we are now. The government is the only power that used to be able to stand up to corporate power. That too is fading away. The concept of corporations are people is part of that,. Then, case after case that the Supreme Court decided in favor of corporations are another. Corporations and the wealthy no longer have brakes on their greed and corruption. The power of the people to keep them in line is gone.

We need another teddy Roosevelt. He was the trust buster who told us what a danger the wealthy could be to the American system. He installed the inheritance tax to prevent the formation of powerful endless dynasties. He made speeches about fighting the power of the plutocrats. Those days are gone. The new America will not serve the citizens.

You are wrong. Roosevelt did some good things. But for the most part, he was an idiot. He was the embodiment of what JBA Karr once said. Which is basically, "The more that things change, the more they stay the same." I will give you a picture of somebody who had his shit together far more. Which is why you have heard and continue to hear nothing but filthy stinking lies about!!!


Or maybe you would prefer to hear what this person had to say about it.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

you previously said all the resources were exploited in an era before the industrial revolution. You now must realize how utterly retarded that was.

you have nothing to teach us here child.

No one can teach idiots anything. Your society is still economically colonizing the middle east (along with your own society), that's why your economic system cannot prop itself up without endless war and resource extraction.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

sure.

I sat for two long years having to listen to the dumbest ideas by people that had no idea what they were talking about, , much like what is happening here. It was hell!

You couldn't finish college?

It's a chat board, bye.

 

[coolzone]

I don't watch anything by Michael Moore. He is a charlatan. Pretending to be for the little guy from his mansions has been been a profitable racket for him.

Anybody, no matter who they are, deserves a fair hearing. You do have the ability to tell what is true and what isn't don't you? As I said, I don't agree with everything he said. But you have to give the "devil" his due. In each of those documentaries, he brought up some very good points. Points that are worth hearing. Regardless of how you feel about him personally. At the very least, deciding what is right and what is wrong is a good mental exercise. For that reason alone, you should watch them. You would like them better than another documentary I could suggest to you.

 

[coolzone]

I don't think you're thinking at all.

You made that clear in your last reply. I don't think you're thinking clearly by basically saying the same thing again.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

You made that clear in your last reply. I don't think you're thinking clearly by basically saying the same thing again.

Great.

 

[coolzone]

Surely you're wrong, why, we're exceptional, everyone wants what we have here:

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profits versus externalized risk and expense for the "job creator" class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez-faire capitalism for the masses

Surely I am right! I just told you why. The rest of what you have to say is just bullshit.

 

[coolzone]

the wall isn't up in Germany anymore moron. The capitalists won there too!

finish junior high before trying this again, K?

What has the Berlin Wall to do with anything. As for the wall I did show, why are those people escaping from a capitalist country.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Surely I am right! I just told you why. The rest of what you have to say is just bullshit.

Oh, so you're going all highbrow now.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

What has the Berlin Wall to do with anything. As for the wall I did show, why are those people escaping from a capitalist country.

The rest of what you have to say is just bullshit.

 

[Minister of Truth]

There are no "case studies" when it comes to capitalism. And even if there were, they would just be BS written by capitalists to support their cult. A cult that has nothing to do with reality. It has everything to do with criminality and greed. The thing is, socialist societies such as what China and Russia were famous for operated in the same way. And they still do. Though socialist countries tried to keep aristocracy at a minimum by limiting the amount of wealth people could accumulate.
Slavery is the basis for all of the societies that I have heard that ever existed. Or still exist. They just use different terms for it. Also, most creatures that have ever lived or still live seek status and power. (That includes humans) Which makes it easier for them to gain what most other creatures also seek. Which is getting as much as they can with as little effort as possible.
These are the reasons why my idea of government is "mythical." But it can be a reality. All it takes is a sane judgement of what the right thing is and to do it. What is that right thing? I gave a link to a book around here. Read it. It points out how a true democracy should work.

So, you want to keep slavery alive vis-à-vis socialism?

 

[Irish Exit]

Anybody, no matter who they are, deserves a fair hearing. You do have the ability to tell what is true and what isn't don't you? As I said, I don't agree with everything he said. But you have to give the "devil" his due. In each of those documentaries, he brought up some very good points. Points that are worth hearing. Regardless of how you feel about him personally. At the very least, deciding what is right and what is wrong is a good mental exercise. For that reason alone, you should watch them. You would like them better than another documentary I could suggest to you.

Michael Moore isn't the sole source of information on these things and I have yet to hear anything from him that was original, at least anything that turned out to be objectively true. I am rather OCD when it comes to things that strike me as surprising, electing to track down how true or well-grounded the thing is. With Moore, I find a lot of the things he has said do not comport with any credible evidence. He takes things to the absurd and does far too much cherry-picking. He is all sizzle, no steak.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

So, you want to keep slavery alive vis-à-vis socialism?

Don't be silly, we're doing that very nicely with our predatory version of capitalism.

U.S. vs. Flores — In 1997, Miguel Flores and Sebastian Gomez were sentenced to 15 years each in federal prison on slavery, extortion, and firearms charges, amongst others. Flores and Gomez had a workforce of over 400 men and women in Florida and South Carolina, harvesting vegetables and citrus. The workers, mostly indigenous Mexicans and Guatemalans, were forced to work 10-12 hour days, 6 days per week, for as little as $20 per week, under the watch of armed guards. Those who attempted escape were assaulted, pistol-whipped, and even shot. The case was brought to federal authorities after five years of investigation by escaped workers and CIW members.

U.S. vs. Cuello — In 1999, Abel Cuello was sentenced to 33 months in federal prison on slavery charges. He had held more than 30 tomato pickers in two trailers in the isolated swampland west of Immokalee, keeping them under constant watch. Three workers escaped the camp, only to have their boss track them down a few weeks later. The employer ran one of them down with his car, stating that he owned them. The workers sought help from the CIW and the police, and the CIW worked with the DOJ on the ensuing investigation. Cuello worked for Manley Farms North Inc., a major Bonita Springs tomato supplier. Once out of prison, Cuello supplied labor to Ag-Mart Farms, a tomato company operating in Florida and North Carolina.

U.S. vs. Tecum — In 2001, Jose Tecum was sentenced to 9 years in federal prison on slavery and kidnapping charges. He forced a young woman to work against her will both in the tomato fields around Immokalee, and in his home. The CIW assisted the DOJ with the prosecution, including victim and witness assistance.

U.S. vs. Lee — In 2001, Michael Lee was sentenced to 4 years in federal prison and 3 years supervised release on a slavery conspiracy charge. He pled guilty to using crack cocaine, threats, and violence to enslave his workers. Lee held his workers in forced labor, recruiting homeless U.S. citizens for his operation, creating a “company store” debt through loans for rent, food, cigarettes, and cocaine. He abducted and beat one of his workers to prevent him from leaving his employ. Lee harvested for orange growers in the Fort Pierce, FL area.

U.S. vs. Ramos — In 2004, Ramiro and Juan Ramos were sentenced to 15 years each in federal prison on slavery and firearms charges, and the forfeiture of over $3 million in assets. The men, who had a workforce of over 700 farmworkers in the citrus groves of Florida, as well as the fields of North Carolina, threatened workers with death if they were to try to leave, and pistol-whipped and assaulted — at gunpoint — passenger van service drivers who gave rides to farmworkers leaving the area. The case was brought to trial by the DOJ after two years of investigation by the CIW. The Ramoses harvested for Consolidated Citrus and Lykes Brothers, among others.

U.S. vs. Ronald Evans — In 2007, Florida employer Ron Evans was sentenced to 30 years in federal prison on drug conspiracy, financial re-structuring, and witness tampering charges, among others. Jequita Evans was also sentenced to 20 years, and Ron Evans Jr. to 10 years. Operating in Florida and North Carolina, Ron Evans recruited homeless U.S. citizens from shelters across the Southeast, including New Orleans, Tampa, and Miami, with promises of good jobs and housing. At Palatka, FL and Newton Grove, NC area labor camps, the Evans’ deducted rent, food, crack cocaine and alcohol from workers’ pay, holding them “perpetually indebted” in what the DOJ called “a form of servitude morally and legally reprehensible.” The Palatka labor camp was surrounded by a chain link fence topped with barbed wire, with a No Trespassing sign. The CIW and a Miami-based homeless outreach organization (Touching Miami with Love) began the investigation and reported the case to federal authorities in 2003. In Florida, Ron Evans worked for grower Frank Johns. Johns was 2004 Chairman of the Florida Fruit and Vegetable Association, the powerful lobbying arm of the Florida agricultural industry. As of 2007, he remained the Chairman of the FFVA’s Budget and Finance Committee.

U.S. vs. Navarrete — In December 2008, employers Cesar and Geovanni Navarrete were sentenced to 12 years each in federal prison on charges of conspiracy, holding workers in involuntary servitude, and peonage. They had employed dozens of tomato pickers in Florida and South Carolina. As stated in the DOJ press release on their sentencing, “[the employers] pleaed guilty to beating, threatening, restraining, and locking workers in trucks to force them to work as agricultural laborers… [They] were accused of paying the workers minimal wages and driving the workers into debt, while simultaneously threatening physical harm if the workers left their employment before their debts had been repaid to the Navarrete family.” Workers first reported the abuse to Collier County police, and additional workers sought help from the CIW. The CIW collaborated with the DOJ and the police on the year-long investigation and prosecution.

U.S. vs. Bontemps — In July 2010, Cabioch Bontemps, Carline Ceneus, and Willy Edouard were indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of conspiracy to commit forced labor. DOJ officials accuse the three of holding over 50 guestworkers from Haiti against their will in the beanfields of Alachua County, Florida. The indictment states that Bontemps raped one of the workers in his employ and threatened her if she were to report it. The employers held the workers’ passports and visas, and forced them to work in fields recently sprayed with harsh pesticides, causing permanent scarring. The grower, Steven Davis, asked the judge during the court hearing to release Bontemps since he was key to the harvesting operation. “All these people [the workers] look up to him,” Davis said. “All these people respect him. All these people worship him.” The CIW trained local law enforcement and church groups shortly before the workers were rescued, and assisted in referring the case to the DOJ. The DOJ dropped the charges in January 2012.

U.S. vs. Global Horizons — In September 2010, staff of guestworker recruiting giant Global Horizons were charged with operating a forced labor ring active in 13 states, including Florida. Global Horizons CEO Mordechai Orian and six others were accused of holding six hundred guestworkers from Thailand against their will in what prosecutors called “the largest human trafficking case in US history.” FBI Special Agent Tom Simon described the case as “a classic bait-and-switch… They were telling the Thai workers one thing to lure them here. Then when they got here, their passports were taken away and they were held in forced servitude working in these farms.” Of the eight people originally indicted, three pled guilty; a Global Horizons manager pled guilty to conspiracy to violate the forced labor statute, and two field supervisors pled guilty to document servitude. A fourth defendant pled guilty in Thailand to recruitment fraud. In July 2012, the DOJ dropped the charges against CEO Orian and another Global Horizons executive.

http://ciw-online.org/slavery/

 

[coolzone]

wow, that is even dumber then what the moronic op is talking about

prior to the industrial revolution, the major resource scarcity was labor. another junior high kid..joy!

Glad to see you can talk like a jerk to more than one person. There was never any scarcity of labor in the U.S. What there was a scarcity of, and will always be in our capitalist system, is a scarcity of slaves that employers can pay less than Americans. So it's no wonder that I'm still waiting for Trump to deport those 11 million illegals. (Even though he had the authority) And I will probably have to wait until hell freezes over.