Are You A Capitalist Scumbag?

coolzone said:
If we are going to have slavery, as we do, it would be better to have it where most people have a more equal pay. Instead of the 1% having 99% of the wealth. Maybe those who build yachts or top fashion designers would disagree. But that is how I feel.
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Because most people would rather be doing something other than working, that doesn't make having a job even remotely akin to slavery.
 
coolzone said:
If we are going to have slavery, as we do, it would be better to have it where most people have a more equal pay. Instead of the 1% having 99% of the wealth. Maybe those who build yachts or top fashion designers would disagree. But that is how I feel.
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Try thinking.
 
Kacper said:
China is the largest polluter in the world with land, air and water and they certainly are no capitalist. Yes you do have to cut a lot of things to pay for enforcement.
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If China isn't somewhat Capitalist,where they get the trillions to loan us to run up the national debt.
 
Kacper said:
Michael Moore isn't the sole source of information on these things and I have yet to hear anything from him that was original, at least anything that turned out to be objectively true. I am rather OCD when it comes to things that strike me as surprising, electing to track down how true or well-grounded the thing is. With Moore, I find a lot of the things he has said do not comport with any credible evidence. He takes things to the absurd and does far too much cherry-picking. He is all sizzle, no steak.
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I think you're being far too cynical. For example, in the documentary "Sicko," he talks to a couple people from Canada who were planning a trip to the U.S. He showed them buying health insurance for the trip here. So that if anything happened to them here that required health care, it would be paid for. Also, in the documentary "Where to invade," he talked to Americans who were getting a FREE college education in Europe. He talked to people in France who just couldn't believe how American workers were treated. There were many, many, many such things in the movie.
He himself said that they had problems over there. But he was there to pick the flowers. Not the weeds. His purpose was to invade those countries and capture their best ideas. Here is one. In Finland, they have either the best educated or right near the top best educated students in the world. By "conquering" them, he was able to take as booty their secret as to how they did it. How was that? They stopped making students do homework!!!
In the documentary you would also be shown how many countries over there provide FAR more to their citizens than what the U.S. does for its citizens. And that those people pay far less in taxes to get it! If you don't watch it, you are doing yourself a disservice. With plenty of sizzle!
 
Shallon Peterson said:
If China isn't somewhat Capitalist,where they get the trillions to loan us to run up the national debt.
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By your argument, any country that has currency is "somewhat Capitalist". To answer your question, however, a good bit of that money came from not having a floating exchange rate or anything even remotely resembling something other than a government dictated exchange rate for most of the time since Nixon "opened up" China.
 
Fentoine Lum said:
Don't be silly, we're doing that very nicely with our predatory version of capitalism.

U.S. vs. Flores — In 1997, Miguel Flores and Sebastian Gomez were sentenced to 15 years each in federal prison on slavery, extortion, and firearms charges, amongst others. Flores and Gomez had a workforce of over 400 men and women in Florida and South Carolina, harvesting vegetables and citrus. The workers, mostly indigenous Mexicans and Guatemalans, were forced to work 10-12 hour days, 6 days per week, for as little as $20 per week, under the watch of armed guards. Those who attempted escape were assaulted, pistol-whipped, and even shot. The case was brought to federal authorities after five years of investigation by escaped workers and CIW members.

U.S. vs. Cuello — In 1999, Abel Cuello was sentenced to 33 months in federal prison on slavery charges. He had held more than 30 tomato pickers in two trailers in the isolated swampland west of Immokalee, keeping them under constant watch. Three workers escaped the camp, only to have their boss track them down a few weeks later. The employer ran one of them down with his car, stating that he owned them. The workers sought help from the CIW and the police, and the CIW worked with the DOJ on the ensuing investigation. Cuello worked for Manley Farms North Inc., a major Bonita Springs tomato supplier. Once out of prison, Cuello supplied labor to Ag-Mart Farms, a tomato company operating in Florida and North Carolina.

U.S. vs. Tecum — In 2001, Jose Tecum was sentenced to 9 years in federal prison on slavery and kidnapping charges. He forced a young woman to work against her will both in the tomato fields around Immokalee, and in his home. The CIW assisted the DOJ with the prosecution, including victim and witness assistance.

U.S. vs. Lee — In 2001, Michael Lee was sentenced to 4 years in federal prison and 3 years supervised release on a slavery conspiracy charge. He pled guilty to using crack cocaine, threats, and violence to enslave his workers. Lee held his workers in forced labor, recruiting homeless U.S. citizens for his operation, creating a “company store” debt through loans for rent, food, cigarettes, and cocaine. He abducted and beat one of his workers to prevent him from leaving his employ. Lee harvested for orange growers in the Fort Pierce, FL area.

U.S. vs. Ramos — In 2004, Ramiro and Juan Ramos were sentenced to 15 years each in federal prison on slavery and firearms charges, and the forfeiture of over $3 million in assets. The men, who had a workforce of over 700 farmworkers in the citrus groves of Florida, as well as the fields of North Carolina, threatened workers with death if they were to try to leave, and pistol-whipped and assaulted — at gunpoint — passenger van service drivers who gave rides to farmworkers leaving the area. The case was brought to trial by the DOJ after two years of investigation by the CIW. The Ramoses harvested for Consolidated Citrus and Lykes Brothers, among others.

U.S. vs. Ronald Evans — In 2007, Florida employer Ron Evans was sentenced to 30 years in federal prison on drug conspiracy, financial re-structuring, and witness tampering charges, among others. Jequita Evans was also sentenced to 20 years, and Ron Evans Jr. to 10 years. Operating in Florida and North Carolina, Ron Evans recruited homeless U.S. citizens from shelters across the Southeast, including New Orleans, Tampa, and Miami, with promises of good jobs and housing. At Palatka, FL and Newton Grove, NC area labor camps, the Evans’ deducted rent, food, crack cocaine and alcohol from workers’ pay, holding them “perpetually indebted” in what the DOJ called “a form of servitude morally and legally reprehensible.” The Palatka labor camp was surrounded by a chain link fence topped with barbed wire, with a No Trespassing sign. The CIW and a Miami-based homeless outreach organization (Touching Miami with Love) began the investigation and reported the case to federal authorities in 2003. In Florida, Ron Evans worked for grower Frank Johns. Johns was 2004 Chairman of the Florida Fruit and Vegetable Association, the powerful lobbying arm of the Florida agricultural industry. As of 2007, he remained the Chairman of the FFVA’s Budget and Finance Committee.

U.S. vs. Navarrete — In December 2008, employers Cesar and Geovanni Navarrete were sentenced to 12 years each in federal prison on charges of conspiracy, holding workers in involuntary servitude, and peonage. They had employed dozens of tomato pickers in Florida and South Carolina. As stated in the DOJ press release on their sentencing, “[the employers] pleaed guilty to beating, threatening, restraining, and locking workers in trucks to force them to work as agricultural laborers… [They] were accused of paying the workers minimal wages and driving the workers into debt, while simultaneously threatening physical harm if the workers left their employment before their debts had been repaid to the Navarrete family.” Workers first reported the abuse to Collier County police, and additional workers sought help from the CIW. The CIW collaborated with the DOJ and the police on the year-long investigation and prosecution.

U.S. vs. Bontemps — In July 2010, Cabioch Bontemps, Carline Ceneus, and Willy Edouard were indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of conspiracy to commit forced labor. DOJ officials accuse the three of holding over 50 guestworkers from Haiti against their will in the beanfields of Alachua County, Florida. The indictment states that Bontemps raped one of the workers in his employ and threatened her if she were to report it. The employers held the workers’ passports and visas, and forced them to work in fields recently sprayed with harsh pesticides, causing permanent scarring. The grower, Steven Davis, asked the judge during the court hearing to release Bontemps since he was key to the harvesting operation. “All these people [the workers] look up to him,” Davis said. “All these people respect him. All these people worship him.” The CIW trained local law enforcement and church groups shortly before the workers were rescued, and assisted in referring the case to the DOJ. The DOJ dropped the charges in January 2012.

U.S. vs. Global Horizons — In September 2010, staff of guestworker recruiting giant Global Horizons were charged with operating a forced labor ring active in 13 states, including Florida. Global Horizons CEO Mordechai Orian and six others were accused of holding six hundred guestworkers from Thailand against their will in what prosecutors called “the largest human trafficking case in US history.” FBI Special Agent Tom Simon described the case as “a classic bait-and-switch… They were telling the Thai workers one thing to lure them here. Then when they got here, their passports were taken away and they were held in forced servitude working in these farms.” Of the eight people originally indicted, three pled guilty; a Global Horizons manager pled guilty to conspiracy to violate the forced labor statute, and two field supervisors pled guilty to document servitude. A fourth defendant pled guilty in Thailand to recruitment fraud. In July 2012, the DOJ dropped the charges against CEO Orian and another Global Horizons executive.

http://ciw-online.org/slavery/
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Didn't read it all. It's getting late. But enough to see you are right on target. Good work!
 
Kacper said:
By your argument, any country that has currency is "somewhat Capitalist". To answer your question, however, a good bit of that money came from not having a floating exchange rate or anything even remotely resembling something other than a government dictated exchange rate for most of the time since Nixon "opened up" China.
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Trump makes me miss a honest man like Nixon.
 
Flash said:
And you don't think all these same problems don't exist in socialist nations? The problem is human nature, not capitalism or socialism.
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I'm not worried about the problems whoever has. I'm worried about the problems we have. Capitalism is the cause. Not socialism.
 
coolzone said:
I think you're being far too cynical. For example, in the documentary "Sicko," he talks to a couple people from Canada who were planning a trip to the U.S. He showed them buying health insurance for the trip here. So that if anything happened to them here that required health care, it would be paid for. Also, in the documentary "Where to invade," he talked to Americans who were getting a FREE college education in Europe. He talked to people in France who just couldn't believe how American workers were treated. There were many, many, many such things in the movie.
He himself said that they had problems over there. But he was there to pick the flowers. Not the weeds. His purpose was to invade those countries and capture their best ideas. Here is one. In Finland, they have either the best educated or right near the top best educated students in the world. By "conquering" them, he was able to take as booty their secret as to how they did it. How was that? They stopped making students do homework!!!
In the documentary you would also be shown how many countries over there provide FAR more to their citizens than what the U.S. does for its citizens. And that those people pay far less in taxes to get it! If you don't watch it, you are doing yourself a disservice. With plenty of sizzle!
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There is a ton of information out there hotly debated on Finland's school system. No homework is not the reason they do so well though many would disagree with the whole doing well thing given the high youth suicide rate in Finland and their students being rated as some of the unhappiest in the world. I have read accounts by some of their teachers that say their reputation is a crock hidden by the lack of standardized testing other than 1 test their senior year with lots of struggling students because of the short school days, no homework, and limited and dated textbooks.
 
Shallon Peterson said:
If China isn't somewhat Capitalist,where they get the trillions to loan us to run up the national debt.
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China is capitalistic, by serendipity. American manufacturers moved there lock ,stock s\and intellectual property to avoid environmental laws and get cheap unprotected labor. The government jumped on it to get the money..Now they have the pollution. they need unions.
 
Shallon Peterson said:
If China isn't somewhat Capitalist,where they get the trillions to loan us to run up the national debt.
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China discovered they do better using some market forces and allowing more foreign investment (thousands of American fast food places), but most industries are still owned wholly or partially by the government.
 
coolzone said:
I'm not worried about the problems whoever has. I'm worried about the problems we have. Capitalism is the cause. Not socialism.
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That is because we live in a capitalist economy. If we lived in a socialist economy there would be many of the same plus some different problems.
 
Nordberg said:
Yes like education costs and medical care. Glad we don't have those problems.
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Yes, those are problems the U. S. faces and most other nations regardless of economic system. The European nations have continuing problems financing health care and we periodically see doctors striking in France because cuts are made to providers. Those countries are primarily capitalist because the health care system is privately operated through competitive non-profit insurance companies (except Great Britain).
 
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