Are You A Capitalist Scumbag?

Kacper said:
Michael Moore isn't the sole source of information on these things and I have yet to hear anything from him that was original, at least anything that turned out to be objectively true. I am rather OCD when it comes to things that strike me as surprising, electing to track down how true or well-grounded the thing is. With Moore, I find a lot of the things he has said do not comport with any credible evidence. He takes things to the absurd and does far too much cherry-picking. He is all sizzle, no steak.
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Too funny, Michael Moore and food metaphors.
 
zymurgy said:
good luck convincing people that you know how many grocery stores should exist in a geographic area, or what the price of things should be.

until then, fuck off with your retarded junior high views on the world.
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Fuck off you stupid doomsday cultist piece of shit. Welcome to ignore land.
 
Fentoine Lum said:
Don't be silly, we're doing that very nicely with our predatory version of capitalism.

U.S. vs. Flores — In 1997, Miguel Flores and Sebastian Gomez were sentenced to 15 years each in federal prison on slavery, extortion, and firearms charges, amongst others. Flores and Gomez had a workforce of over 400 men and women in Florida and South Carolina, harvesting vegetables and citrus. The workers, mostly indigenous Mexicans and Guatemalans, were forced to work 10-12 hour days, 6 days per week, for as little as $20 per week, under the watch of armed guards. Those who attempted escape were assaulted, pistol-whipped, and even shot. The case was brought to federal authorities after five years of investigation by escaped workers and CIW members.

U.S. vs. Cuello — In 1999, Abel Cuello was sentenced to 33 months in federal prison on slavery charges. He had held more than 30 tomato pickers in two trailers in the isolated swampland west of Immokalee, keeping them under constant watch. Three workers escaped the camp, only to have their boss track them down a few weeks later. The employer ran one of them down with his car, stating that he owned them. The workers sought help from the CIW and the police, and the CIW worked with the DOJ on the ensuing investigation. Cuello worked for Manley Farms North Inc., a major Bonita Springs tomato supplier. Once out of prison, Cuello supplied labor to Ag-Mart Farms, a tomato company operating in Florida and North Carolina.

U.S. vs. Tecum — In 2001, Jose Tecum was sentenced to 9 years in federal prison on slavery and kidnapping charges. He forced a young woman to work against her will both in the tomato fields around Immokalee, and in his home. The CIW assisted the DOJ with the prosecution, including victim and witness assistance.

U.S. vs. Lee — In 2001, Michael Lee was sentenced to 4 years in federal prison and 3 years supervised release on a slavery conspiracy charge. He pled guilty to using crack cocaine, threats, and violence to enslave his workers. Lee held his workers in forced labor, recruiting homeless U.S. citizens for his operation, creating a “company store” debt through loans for rent, food, cigarettes, and cocaine. He abducted and beat one of his workers to prevent him from leaving his employ. Lee harvested for orange growers in the Fort Pierce, FL area.

U.S. vs. Ramos — In 2004, Ramiro and Juan Ramos were sentenced to 15 years each in federal prison on slavery and firearms charges, and the forfeiture of over $3 million in assets. The men, who had a workforce of over 700 farmworkers in the citrus groves of Florida, as well as the fields of North Carolina, threatened workers with death if they were to try to leave, and pistol-whipped and assaulted — at gunpoint — passenger van service drivers who gave rides to farmworkers leaving the area. The case was brought to trial by the DOJ after two years of investigation by the CIW. The Ramoses harvested for Consolidated Citrus and Lykes Brothers, among others.

U.S. vs. Ronald Evans — In 2007, Florida employer Ron Evans was sentenced to 30 years in federal prison on drug conspiracy, financial re-structuring, and witness tampering charges, among others. Jequita Evans was also sentenced to 20 years, and Ron Evans Jr. to 10 years. Operating in Florida and North Carolina, Ron Evans recruited homeless U.S. citizens from shelters across the Southeast, including New Orleans, Tampa, and Miami, with promises of good jobs and housing. At Palatka, FL and Newton Grove, NC area labor camps, the Evans’ deducted rent, food, crack cocaine and alcohol from workers’ pay, holding them “perpetually indebted” in what the DOJ called “a form of servitude morally and legally reprehensible.” The Palatka labor camp was surrounded by a chain link fence topped with barbed wire, with a No Trespassing sign. The CIW and a Miami-based homeless outreach organization (Touching Miami with Love) began the investigation and reported the case to federal authorities in 2003. In Florida, Ron Evans worked for grower Frank Johns. Johns was 2004 Chairman of the Florida Fruit and Vegetable Association, the powerful lobbying arm of the Florida agricultural industry. As of 2007, he remained the Chairman of the FFVA’s Budget and Finance Committee.

U.S. vs. Navarrete — In December 2008, employers Cesar and Geovanni Navarrete were sentenced to 12 years each in federal prison on charges of conspiracy, holding workers in involuntary servitude, and peonage. They had employed dozens of tomato pickers in Florida and South Carolina. As stated in the DOJ press release on their sentencing, “[the employers] pleaed guilty to beating, threatening, restraining, and locking workers in trucks to force them to work as agricultural laborers… [They] were accused of paying the workers minimal wages and driving the workers into debt, while simultaneously threatening physical harm if the workers left their employment before their debts had been repaid to the Navarrete family.” Workers first reported the abuse to Collier County police, and additional workers sought help from the CIW. The CIW collaborated with the DOJ and the police on the year-long investigation and prosecution.

U.S. vs. Bontemps — In July 2010, Cabioch Bontemps, Carline Ceneus, and Willy Edouard were indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of conspiracy to commit forced labor. DOJ officials accuse the three of holding over 50 guestworkers from Haiti against their will in the beanfields of Alachua County, Florida. The indictment states that Bontemps raped one of the workers in his employ and threatened her if she were to report it. The employers held the workers’ passports and visas, and forced them to work in fields recently sprayed with harsh pesticides, causing permanent scarring. The grower, Steven Davis, asked the judge during the court hearing to release Bontemps since he was key to the harvesting operation. “All these people [the workers] look up to him,” Davis said. “All these people respect him. All these people worship him.” The CIW trained local law enforcement and church groups shortly before the workers were rescued, and assisted in referring the case to the DOJ. The DOJ dropped the charges in January 2012.

U.S. vs. Global Horizons — In September 2010, staff of guestworker recruiting giant Global Horizons were charged with operating a forced labor ring active in 13 states, including Florida. Global Horizons CEO Mordechai Orian and six others were accused of holding six hundred guestworkers from Thailand against their will in what prosecutors called “the largest human trafficking case in US history.” FBI Special Agent Tom Simon described the case as “a classic bait-and-switch… They were telling the Thai workers one thing to lure them here. Then when they got here, their passports were taken away and they were held in forced servitude working in these farms.” Of the eight people originally indicted, three pled guilty; a Global Horizons manager pled guilty to conspiracy to violate the forced labor statute, and two field supervisors pled guilty to document servitude. A fourth defendant pled guilty in Thailand to recruitment fraud. In July 2012, the DOJ dropped the charges against CEO Orian and another Global Horizons executive.

http://ciw-online.org/slavery/
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Why were those guys all prosecuted, yet socialist governments get to keep their people perpetually enslaved?
 
coolzone said:
Glad to see you can talk like a jerk to more than one person. There was never any scarcity of labor in the U.S. What there was a scarcity of, and will always be in our capitalist system, is a scarcity of slaves that employers can pay less than Americans. So it's no wonder that I'm still waiting for Trump to deport those 11 million illegals. (Even though he had the authority) And I will probably have to wait until hell freezes over.
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Our "illegals" have always been here at the behest of and upon the lobbying and think tank legislation of the Wall Street/donor/"job creator" class.
 
Threedee said:
Why were those guys all prosecuted, yet socialist governments get to keep their people perpetually enslaved?
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I have no idea wtf you're blathering on about with this "yet socialist governments get to keep their people perpetually enslaved?" nonsense.

Your economic system is what it is, and even you cannot defend it, you have to move attention elsewhere via obfuscation. You should run for office.
 
Fentoine Lum said:
American capitalism now requires endless war, it's unsustainable ultimately. Watch.
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It does to an extent and somewhat ironically I suppose, the party of the rich is the protectionist party even though protectionism would interfere with the wealth of the ubber rich (well if it was really protectionism). America is loaded down with too much selective rent-seeking, including and particularly for the military industrial complex.
 
coolzone said:
If you don't think it is a problem of capitalism, you are completely delusional. I think it was Calvin Coolidge who once basically said, "The business of government IS business." Also, we are supposed to elect politicians who work for the people who elected them. But obviously, the people they really work for are corporations. But nobody votes for corporations. Also, politicians are accountable. Corporations basically aren't. Yet they write our laws!
Next, you don't have to cut anything to pay for better enforcement. The only thing you need to cut is the heads off those who break the rules. Which corporations have also found a way around. They just make the laws so complicated that nobody can really be held accountable to that degree for breaking some rule.
Here is another point about "paying" for things. Did you forget what the program showed what that corruption is already costing us? Also, money is just a delusion. It is fiat currency. It is basically worthless. Another thing is that the U.S. is over 18 trillion dollars in debt. We have something around 61 trillion dollars worth of unfunded obligations. Also, our yearly trade imbalance with China alone is anywhere from 300 billion dollars to over 700 billion dollars. Another thing is that each year we HAVE to pay around 420 billion dollars just on the interest of our national debt. Nobody bitches much about paying for that. Also, without a doubt, universal health care would be cheaper. But where are we.
There are more problems going on than you could spend all day walking along and shaking a stick at. But the thing is, to fix any problem, you have to start from a sturdy foundation and work your way up. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time. To show you this sturdy foundation, I have a book to suggest to you. I will provide a link. It will take you to filehosting.org. Where if you choose to you can download the book. It is only about 100 pages long. (With quite a few pictures) So in that regard, it shouldn't be too much for you. It is called, "The Truth: Unforbidden!" Here is the link. http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/733832/THE TRUTH, UNFORBIDDEN!.pdf
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And you don't think all these same problems don't exist in socialist nations? The problem is human nature, not capitalism or socialism.
 
Fentoine Lum said:
You don't understand capitalism. Someone has to be on bottom, a vast majority, to fund the aristocracy, just like feudalism.
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Oh, I understand capitalism well enough. Part of which is a wise quote by somebody who I mentioned earlier. (Maybe to you) "The more that things change, the more they stay the same." It is true that some people deserve to be on the bottom. But who that is is a different story. Somebody can be born dirt poor and still be a superior human to those born into a more lofty position. For example, there used to be a king of what I think was the Hapsburg empire who was a freak with a severely jutting lower jaw. He had a son who I think was king Charles of Spain. He had the same problem.
 
Fentoine Lum said:
I have no idea wtf you're blathering on about with this "yet socialist governments get to keep their people perpetually enslaved?" nonsense.

Your economic system is what it is, and even you cannot defend it, you have to move attention elsewhere via obfuscation. You should run for office.
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Venezuela.
 
Fentoine Lum said:
No one can teach idiots anything. Your society is still economically colonizing the middle east (along with your own society), that's why your economic system cannot prop itself up without endless war and resource extraction.
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Oh. zymurgy is a sand negro? That explains a lot. Good thing I put him on my ignore list. Those people can't have democracy. It allows too much freedom. Which groups like Al Qaida and ISIS just love to exploit.
 
A huge dangerous fire today in texas city. This is why we don't need the epa? WTF? Let's just wait until the asthma epidemic hits. Then we can talk about it. This is no time to talk about it, imao. now git.
 
Fentoine Lum said:
Oh, so you're going all highbrow now.
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You were the one going all "high brow." Or at least trying to. Such as your crap with the "job creator" class. Their jobs are bullshit. Most of the jobs they create here are bullshit just like theirs are. Worthless bureaucrats who don't produce anything tangible toward the human condition. And get paid WAY too much to do so! Though I have to admit, they did create a lot of jobs. An incredible number of them in fact. The trouble is that they were in places like China and Mexico.
 
Threedee said:
So, you want to keep slavery alive vis-à-vis socialism?
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If we are going to have slavery, as we do, it would be better to have it where most people have a more equal pay. Instead of the 1% having 99% of the wealth. Maybe those who build yachts or top fashion designers would disagree. But that is how I feel.
 
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