Beautiful portrait of Arpaio

Beefy said:
Okay, then his daughter is an athiest.

Hopefully, you get the picture.
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or she had an abortion, or gambled ( a sin for methodists), etc
You do not have to be an atheist to go to hell just break a few rules.
 
Damocles said:
One of the main questions I had for the pastor of the church I grew up in was why anybody would want to go to heaven, the brief descriptions seem to be torture for me. The choice between two different types of torture didn't seem like much of a choice at all.
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Apparently God gives you soul-drugs to keep you happy.

Hey, it's better than burning. Except the bible never really explicitly states that hell is a place that's burning.
 
Demwit said:
or she had an abortion, or gambled ( a sin for methodists), etc
You do not have to be an atheist to go to hell just break a few rules.
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you don't end up in hell for breaking rules...you end up in hell for refusing to believe in God.....the scriptures are quite clear on that.....
 
Beefy said:
Okay, then his daughter is an athiest.

Hopefully, you get the picture.
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so your question is, how could he enjoy paradise knowing his daughter didn't share it?......I would say he probably couldn't....therefore one likely logical conclusion is he wouldn't know it......I think there are many things that we couldn't enjoy paradise if we remembered.....any one of those things we regret from our younger days, for example.....I don't think we will remember anything that would prevent enjoyment......
 
911America4EVER said:
Apparently God gives you soul-drugs to keep you happy.

Hey, it's better than burning. Except the bible never really explicitly states that hell is a place that's burning.
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Yet the lake of fire is mentioned in Revelations and it even speaks of the heat in Hell in the Old testament. In Luke the flames of "Hades" are spoken of, and the rich man is spoken of being in "torment" in those flames. (Luke 16:19-31).
 
PostmodernProphet said:
what a fucked up example.....which is heaven and which is hell, the raping or the dying?......

my analogy was more accurate.....there's an amusement park, admission is free, all you need to do to get in is talk to the manager and ask.....instead, you stand outside the gate and whine about how neither the park or the manager exist....but, he's evil for not letting you in.....it's one of the reasons I consider atheists irrational....
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Not quite accurate. In order to get into the amusement park you must believe. Its not as if you just talk to the manager and ask. And you cannot pretend to believe, because God can see into your heart.

As for you saying people "choose" to go to hell, I disagree. They may choose not to follow your religion, but they do nolt choose to go to hell.

And of those who do believe in God in order to avoid hell, are they actual believers or just cowards? If someone follows God because they are afraid of being punished if the don't, is that true belief?
 
WinterBorn said:
Not quite accurate. In order to get into the amusement park you must believe. Its not as if you just talk to the manager and ask. And you cannot pretend to believe, because God can see into your heart.

As for you saying people "choose" to go to hell, I disagree. They may choose not to follow your religion, but they do nolt choose to go to hell.

And of those who do believe in God in order to avoid hell, are they actual believers or just cowards? If someone follows God because they are afraid of being punished if the don't, is that true belief?
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I've often thought about that, but I really don't have a lot of experience being preached to about damnation, nor, considering the lives of so many people around me, do I feel much fear about heaven. Throughout my life, I have frequently been a failure at all sorts of things, and I think that my relationship with God is one area where things are a bit better...
 
Damocles said:
Yet the lake of fire is mentioned in Revelations and it even speaks of the heat in Hell in the Old testament. In Luke the flames of "Hades" are spoken of, and the rich man is spoken of being in "torment" in those flames. (Luke 16:19-31).
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In revelation the lake of fire is spoken of as something that the Beast is thrown into... not necessarily the same thing as hell.

Jews don't believe in hell; the hell with flames everywhere seems to be a massive, liberal expansion of the lake of fire concept that Christians made. Also, Satan isn't Lucifer, Satan isn't necessarily the same thing as The Beast, and Satan isn't necessarily the antithesis to God either (in Jewish theology he is a servant of God, and holds a position simialar to prosecutor, arguing that the person is filled with sin). All of that theology seems to be made up off the top of Christian heads.
 
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WinterBorn said:
Not quite accurate. In order to get into the amusement park you must believe. Its not as if you just talk to the manager and ask.
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okay, I'm not going to argue with that....I was being a bit subtle at that point....in order to talk to the manager you need to believe he exists....and the "ask" was accepting salvation....so yes, you need to believe....
 
911America4EVER said:
In revelation the lake of fire is spoken of as something that Satan is thrown into... not necessarily the same thing as hell.

Jews don't believe in hell; the hell with flames everywhere seems to be a massive, liberal expansion of the lake of fire concept.
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You are wrong, the lake is where those who rejected God are thrown. And the Saints feel no sorrow for they "know" it was their choices that brought them there. As well Gehenna and Hades are mentioned often in the Old Testament. Geez you are just making crap up now in the hopes that nobody will know enough to shut off this inanity.

The rich man in Luke is a reference to an Old Testament scripture where the man is in hell and can see Abraham, begging God to allow Abraham to know his fate, to touch even the water of Hell, God says NO.
 
WinterBorn said:
As for you saying people "choose" to go to hell, I disagree. They may choose not to follow your religion, but they do nolt choose to go to hell.
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refusing to believe the consequences are the consequences is still just another method of choosing....what the Christian religion teaches is not a secret, certainly everyone arguing here is aware of it....thus, it's a choice freely made, without force.....certainly no one here can argue they have been forced to not believe.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you don't end up in hell for breaking rules...you end up in hell for refusing to believe in God.....the scriptures are quite clear on that.....
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God according to a Bronze Age document, I don't think she expects me to believe such mythology.
 
Damocles said:
You are wrong, the lake is where those who rejected God are thrown. And the Saints feel no sorrow for they "know" it was their choices that brought them there. As well Gehenna and Hades are mentioned often in the Old Testament. Geez you are just making crap up now in the hopes that nobody will know enough to shut off this inanity.

The rich man in Luke is a reference to an Old Testament scripture where the man is in hell and can see Abraham, begging God to allow Abraham to know his fate, to touch even the water of Hell, God says NO.
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Because god is evil. It's not peoples choices that have brought them to hell; it's god's choice. He shouldn't try to defer responsibility any more than the murderer/rapist. God is the greatest evil of all time. The saints are evil as well for feeling no sorrow, fucking subhumans.
 
911America4EVER said:
Satan isn't Lucifer
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the word Lucifer appears only in the King James version and there only once, in Isaiah 14....who do you believe Isaiah was talking about?

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

the NIV actually translates it as "O morning star, son of the dawn!"
 
PostmodernProphet said:
the word Lucifer appears only in the King James version and there only once, in Isaiah 14....who do you believe Isaiah was talking about?

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

the NIV actually translates it as "O morning star, son of the dawn!"
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It would make no sense for Lucifer to be satan. Satan is not an evil fallen angel in Jewish theology. And Jews wrote the old testament. The lucifer-satan connection is another Christian invention.
 
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