Birth of Jesus - Christmas

Cypress said:
A premarital pregnancy would have been a scandal in first century Jewish Galilee, bringing dishonor to the family of the woman.

Most scholars are predisposed to accept a historical reality of Mary becoming pregnant outside of wedlock. When such a damaging story appears in the gospels the underlying oral or written tradition was too persistent to ignore by first century authors. The Babylonian Torah seems to claim Mary was impregnated by a Roman soldier.

Luke and Matthew get around this problem by using the Hebrew Bible to frame the birth of Jesus in a theological context. The question is whether the birth narratives in Luke and Matthew are only based on prophecy, or based on an authentic and long standing oral tradition.

The miraculous virgin birth narrative is only briefly mentioned in Luke and Matthew, composed around 80 to 85 AD.

Authors writing much earlier, Paul and Mark, make no mention of a virgin birth. Paul seems to allude that Jesus did not become divine until after he was crucified.

John and the author of Peter I and II make no mention of a virgin birth.

The gnostic gospel of Thomas and the other recognized Gnostic writings do not mention a virgin birth.

It is remarkable that an event so momentous and unprecedented as a virgin birth fulfilling Hebrew prophecy is not mentioned by these other authors.

Conclusion: the miraculous Virgin birth narrative is a later legendary account composed and framed by Luke and Matthew for theological reasons.
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but the church invented the nicene creed right?
 
Daylight63 said:
Oh they’ve said MUCH WORSE about most people on here. They are truly an unpleasant person. I hope they aren’t as vile irl
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Internet anonymity enables the worst in people, in my experience. If he were to act that way in public, I suppose he'd be more circumspect.
 
Litmus said:
but the church invented the nicene creed right?
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Primarily to go against the Aryan Heresy as I understand it.

Which is interesting in itself since it sounds like after a few centuries of the faith they had to enforce the concept of Jesus as both man and God simultaneously
 
Daylight63 said:
Primarily to go against the Aryan Heresy as I understand it.

Which is interesting in itself since it sounds like after a few centuries of the faith they had to enforce the concept of Jesus as both man and God simultaneously
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its seems like they're just being schismatic on purpose for totalitarian reasons like insisting men can be women and see who goes along with it.
 
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