Christianity, the religion for anti-intellectuals.

Cypress said:
The crusades were 1000 years ago and have already been adjudicated. There hasn't been a major war, crusade, or inquisition involving Christianity for 500 to 1000 years.

I already acknowledged the Spanish inquisition and it's death count - around 4,000 dead. Lao Tzu just needed to be taught that if he wants to dodge all my points about Medieval intellectual history and divert the the topic to morality, the death count comparison between theocracies and secular governments isn't even in the same ballpark. In the scorecard of depraved bloodthirsty morality, secular governments win hands down, and by a country mile.

So you actually do want to belabor the tangent about moral depravity. Post your proof that any mainstream Christian denomination today points to the Hebrew Bible as a set of rules that justifies and commands genocide and aggressive warfare by Christians
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there were inquisitions and witch hunsts and suppressions regularly all over Europe.

the inquisition was global for a long time.
 
Cypress said:
You keep moving the goal post.

We were talking specifically about Christianity.

We weren't talking about 'faith', which is your way of sneaking Hindu-Muslim and Arab-Israeli conflicts into the thread.

There haven't been any major wars, crusades, genocides, or notable war crimes by Christianity in the last 500 years. That's precisely why you have to keep searching ancient history for examples to complain about.

My theory is that the religious wars of the 1600s were so devastating and apocalyptic, that a permanent lasting truce was basically called between competing Catholicism and Protestant sects.

American fundamentalists tend to not value higher education, but that's not universally true for all Christians. Pope Francis is probably the most highly educated leader of a nation state on the planet.
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christianity has been hijacked as vehicle for gaza genocide at this very moment.


  2. Zionists Behind The Scofield 'Bible' - It's Powerful Effect On Modern ...​


    https://christianobserver.net › the-scofield-bible-its-powerful-effect-on-modern-christianity
    World Zionist leaders initiated a program to change America and its religious orientation. One of the tools used to accomplish this goal was an obscure and malleable Civil War veteran named Cyrus I. Scofield. A much larger tool was a venerable, world respected European book publisher — The Oxford University Press.
  3. researchgate.net

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    The Legacy of the Scofield Reference Bible in Christian Zionism​


    https://www.researchgate.net › publication › 373101848_The_Legacy_of_the_Scofield_Reference_Bible_in_Christian_Zionism
    Aug 13, 2023The Scofield Reference Bible, published in the early 20th century, has left an indelible mark on the world of Christian thought, particularly concerning the role of Israel in biblical prophecy and ...
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    Letters to the Editor: Scofield Bible Had Big ... - The Daily Chronicle​


    https://www.chronline.com › stories › letters-to-the-editor-scofield-bible-had-big-effect-on-united-states-take-action-to-change,110269
    If there had been no Scofield bible, American presidents influenced by Christian Zionism, such as Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, would most likely have been less ...
  5. israelmyglory.org

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    The Life and Legacy of C.I. Scofield - Israel My Glory​


    https://israelmyglory.org › article › the-life-and-legacy-of-c-i-scofield
    Scofield Reference Bible (New York, NY: Oxford, 1909), 5. ... Thank you for this article. I have seen too many Anti-Semitic Pastors/Teachers who claim that C.I. Scofield was a Zionist and was funded and suborned by a cabal of Jewish Kabbalists. These conspiracy theorists try and tell us that Scofield was merely a shill for Zionism and used ...
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    Christian Zionism in the United States, 1930-2020​


    https://oxfordre.com › religion › display › 10.1093 › acrefore › 9780199340378.001.0001 › acrefore-9780199340378-e-1205
    Christian Zionism is a term that is predominantly associated with theologically conservative Christians who believe that the modern nation state of Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. ... biblical significance of Jewish restoration to Palestine and the eventual establishment of the state of Israel is The Scofield Reference Bible, ...
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    Scofield Reference Bible - Wikipedia​


    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Scofield_Reference_Bible
    The Scofield Reference Bible is a widely circulated study Bible.Edited and annotated by the American Bible student Cyrus I. Scofield, it popularized dispensationalism at the beginning of the 20th century. Published by Oxford University Press and containing the entire text of the traditional, Protestant King James Version, it first appeared in 1909 and was revised by the author in 1917.
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    Christian Zionism and the Scofield Reference Bible > Editions​


    https://www.goodreads.com › work › editions › 47157706-christian-zionism-and-the-scofield-reference-bible-a-critical-evaluatio
    Christian Zionism and the Scofield Reference Bible: A Critical Evaluation Of Dispensational Theology by David Lance Dean (2015-05-11) Published January 1st 1876 by Xlibris Paperback, 0 pages Author(s): David Lance Dean. ASIN: B01FIZ1UW8 Average rating: ...
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    C. I. Scofield - Wikipedia​


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    C. I. Scofield, c. 1920 The spines from a set of six volumes by Scofield. Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (August 19, 1843 - July 24, 1921) was an American theologian, minister, and writer whose best-selling annotated Bible popularized futurism and dispensationalism among fundamentalist Christians. Biography
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    Christian Zionism and the Scofield Reference Bible: A Critical ...​


    https://www.goodreads.com › book › show › 27116920-christian-zionism-and-the-scofield-reference-bible
    Christian Zionism and the Scofield Reference Bible by David Lance Dean is a mixed bag for most readers. Part critique of dispensational theology and the Scofield Bible and part conspiracy theory (as he himself offers as one way to state it) about the "Zionist agenda" and how everything, according to Dean, is owned and controlled by Zionist Jews.

 
Lao Tse said:
there were inquisitions and witch hunsts and suppressions regularly all over Europe.

the inquisition was global for a long time.
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There hasn't been an inquisition or witch hunts in centuries.

More importantly, what does it have to do with the topic of the thread? The topic is the intellectual history of the west, and whether or not Christianity had any connection to scholarship and education
 
Cypress said:
There hasn't been an inquisition or witch hunts in centuries.

More importantly, what does it have to do with the topic of the thread? The topic is the intellectual history of the west, and whether or not Christianity had any connection to scholarship and education
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they still poison the well on Catholic bullshit.
 
Cypress said:
You keep moving the goal post.

We were talking specifically about Christianity.
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But you seem to be missing the larger point. From the view of the atheist, there is no difference between Christianity and Islam. They are all religions. The larger point is that religion has no corner on moral principal as evidence again and again.

Your continued characterization of atheism as somehow responsible for evil that religion never did is simply wrong.

Yes, I will agree that Christians today, when they aren't occasionally murdering abortion doctors, by and large are a peaceful lot (if you ignore the fact that the most religious developed nation on earth is responsible for masses of arms sales and on-going slaughters of people but since it is not done in the name of Christianity it doesn't really count).

I understand your dislike of atheism given that your grandfather or granduncle (sorry I don't remember which relative) was murdered by the Bolsheviks in an effort to force secularism. I'm not defending that at all. Evil people do evil things. And I can understand your visceral hatred of atheism. But I'm just trying to tell you that atheism is no more defined by an acceptance of murder as evil than Christianity is.

Cypress said:
American fundamentalists tend to not value higher education, but that's not universally true for all Christians. Pope Francis is probably the most highly educated leader of a nation state on the planet.
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Oh I agree! American fundamentalism has lead the charge in de-intellectualizing faith. They do it EXPLICITLY in many cases since they feel the exhortation in the Bible to come unto Jesus as a child, meaning innocent and untainted by the world. For them education is tainting. Primarily because it questions the fundamental truths their religion is based on.

But then as noted above, there are NO fundamental truths that even Christians have adhered to over history. Murder was NO MORE ACCEPTABLE in Christianity in 1130CE than it is today.
 
Mason 22 said:
You've confused organized religion with a personal relationship with YHWH through the Holy Spirit!
Oil and water!
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Yeah, there's no real significant difference there. One is believing in a group, the other is believing alone.

If anything one of the BEST things a religion can provide is community.

Besides, when you remove the ORGANIZATION from religion all you have is personal imagination. And that's how a LOT of believers these days seem to be leaning. But it has always been that way. God always evolves to suit the time.
 
Daylight63 said:
But you seem to be missing the larger point. From the view of the atheist, there is no difference between Christianity and Islam. They are all religions. The larger point is that religion has no corner on moral principal as evidence again and again.

Your continued characterization of atheism as somehow responsible for evil that religion never did is simply wrong.

Yes, I will agree that Christians today, when they aren't occasionally murdering abortion doctors, by and large are a peaceful lot (if you ignore the fact that the most religious developed nation on earth is responsible for masses of arms sales and on-going slaughters of people but since it is not done in the name of Christianity it doesn't really count).

I understand your dislike of atheism given that your grandfather or granduncle (sorry I don't remember which relative) was murdered by the Bolsheviks in an effort to force secularism. I'm not defending that at all. Evil people do evil things. And I can understand your visceral hatred of atheism. But I'm just trying to tell you that atheism is no more defined by an acceptance of murder as evil than Christianity is.



Oh I agree! American fundamentalism has lead the charge in de-intellectualizing faith. They do it EXPLICITLY in many cases since they feel the exhortation in the Bible to come unto Jesus as a child, meaning innocent and untainted by the world. For them education is tainting. Primarily because it questions the fundamental truths their religion is based on.

But then as noted above, there are NO fundamental truths that even Christians have adhered to over history. Murder was NO MORE ACCEPTABLE in Christianity in 1130CE than it is today.
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No, the garden variety atheist knows Islam and Christianity are two different religions, with two different histories.

The discussion in this thread was specifically about Christianity, over a range and scope of dozens of posts.

You just started belatedly trying to sneak in the Hindu-Arab and Arab Israeli conflicts after it was repeatedly highlighted that there has been no crusades, genocides, notable religious wars within Christianity in over the last 500 years. Basically, a lasting truce has existed within Christianity for five centuries.

For every single person killed in the inquisition or crusades, tens of thousands were killed by secular governments in Soviet Russia, China, Cambodia, Nazi Germany, Fascist Spain, North Korea - and recently, within the last 80 years.

if you want to keep a scorecard, let's start there.
 
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Daylight63 said:
I'm just curious. Can you tell me when Christians decreed that Murder was WRONG? Was it about 1600AD or so?
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We are not holding anyone today responsible religious wars which happened 500 to 3,000 years ago

There are people still alive today who were victims of genocides, ethnic cleansing, mass terror by secular authorities.

Why are you looking in your rear view mirror to complain about events a thousand years ago, rather than admit secular violence in 20th century has no peer and was unprecedented?
 
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Cypress said:
We not holding anyone today responsible religious wars which happened 500 to 3,000 years ago
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I will reiterate why the question matters and renders your critique null and void:

Christianity has NEVER once held the belief that murder is "OK". In fact Christianity has always and clearly stated it is one of the worst moral failures imaginable.

This means that some arbitrary time-block has no meaning for the discussion. Christians have always had a strict prohibition on murder. Yet murder they most certainly did. And a few continue to this day (see the abortion doctors murdered by Christian activists).

You wish to put the claim out there that atheists somehow are worse about murdering people that Christians because you have arbitrarily blocked off a set of years which you will consider for your argument and deny all the other years which don't comport with your argument. That is cherry picking.

And I understand why. It is very hard to accept that Christians could EVER do something as immoral as systematic murder. But they did. With relative ease I might add.

Cypress said:
There are people still alive today who were victims of genocides, ethnic cleansing, mass terror by secular authorities.
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So you are allowed to be general about "secular" but I have to keep the topic focused ONLY on Christian systematic murder.

Not all secular societies are official "atheist" by any stretch of the imagination.

Cypress said:
Why are you looking in your rear view mirror to complain about events a thousand years ago,
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Because Murder was as wrong to a Christian 1000 years ago as it is today. Why is this so difficult for you to handle?

Cypress said:
rather than admit secular violence in 20th century has no peer and was unprecedented.
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The only reason for the arbitrary time constraint is to bias the data to avoid the fact that the Christian faith which has NEVER deviated on the evil that is murder often murdered people systematically and in gigantic numbers.
 
Daylight63 said:
I will reiterate why the question matters and renders your critique null and void:

Christianity has NEVER once held the belief that murder is "OK". In fact Christianity has always and clearly stated it is one of the worst moral failures imaginable.

This means that some arbitrary time-block has no meaning for the discussion. Christians have always had a strict prohibition on murder. Yet murder they most certainly did. And a few continue to this day (see the abortion doctors murdered by Christian activists).

You wish to put the claim out there that atheists somehow are worse about murdering people that Christians because you have arbitrarily blocked off a set of years which you will consider for your argument and deny all the other years which don't comport with your argument. That is cherry picking.

And I understand why. It is very hard to accept that Christians could EVER do something as immoral as systematic murder. But they did. With relative ease I might add.



So you are allowed to be general about "secular" but I have to keep the topic focused ONLY on Christian systematic murder.

Not all secular societies are official "atheist" by any stretch of the imagination.



Because Murder was as wrong to a Christian 1000 years ago as it is today. Why is this so difficult for you to handle?



The only reason for the arbitrary time constraint is to bias the data to avoid the fact that the Christian faith which has NEVER deviated on the evil that is murder often murdered people systematically and in gigantic numbers.
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Too long to read

If you and Lao Tsu wanted to divert the thread to the topic of moral depravity, we should keep a scorecard.

The genocide, mass murder, ethnic cleansing committed by secular authorities just in the last 100 years exceeds by many orders of magnitude all the people ever killed in crusades, inquisitions, and religious wars in Christian Europe centuries ago, correct?
 
Cypress said:
Too long to read
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Again, my apologies. I understand, as you've said many times before, reading isn't your thing.

Cypress said:
If you and Lao Tsu wanted to divert the thread to the topic of moral depravity, we should keep a scorecard.
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As I noted many times before I was responding to your post on this topic. If it is a diversion then it is yours.

Cypress said:
The genocide, mass murder, ethnic cleansing committed by authorities just in the last 100 years exceeds by many orders of magnitude all the people ever killed in crusades, inquisitions, and religious wars in Christian Europe, correct?
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If only you had been able to read my posts. I wish I could shorten things to the level where you are not tired out by reading too much stuff.

It's one of my weaknesses. I love to read and I love to explain my positions in technical detail. Not everyone is like that.
 
Cypress said:
Too long to read

If you and Lao Tsu wanted to divert the thread to the topic of moral depravity, we should keep a scorecard.

The genocide, mass murder, ethnic cleansing committed by secular authorities just in the last 100 years exceeds by many orders of magnitude all the people ever killed in crusades, inquisitions, and religious wars in Christian Europe centuries ago, correct?
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they're all wrong.

you're the one wanting a special carve out for Catholic horrors.

:truestory:

and this thread has Christianity in the title, so quit bitching about "DIVERSION", that's a gay winterborn trick.

are you gay winterborn?
 
Lao Tse said:
this thread has Christianity in the title, so quit bitching about "DIVERSION"!
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There are threads with Trump's Ukraine policy somewhere in the thread title, but which did not devolve and divert into a litany of complaints about the ancient history of Trump's infidelity with Marla Maples - just because Trump was in the thread title
 
Cypress said:
There are threads with Trump's Ukraine policy somewhere in the thread title, but which did not devolve and divert into a litany of complaints about the ancient history of Trump's infidelity with Marla Maples - just because Trump was in the thread title
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quit fucking whining and be fair for once, Masonic duncecap.

you can keep whitewashing the catholic church and looking retarded.
 
Lao Tse said:
you can keep whitewashing the catholic church and looking retarded.
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Diverting a thread which is titled Trump’s Ukraine Policy to a litany of complaints about him cheating with Marla Maples is the purest form of thread diversion.

Which is exactly the kind of thread diversion you have practiced here for five pages of comments
 
Cypress said:
Diverting a thread which is titled Trump’s Ukraine Policy to a litany of complaints about him cheating with Marla Maples is the purest form of thread diversion.

Which is exactly the kind of thread diversion you have practiced here for five pages of comments
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talking about a different thread on this thread is a bigger diversion, private fuckbucket.
 
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