Civil War museum gets rid of Confederate flag on new logo

[dukkha]

Right, but all that is in a museum. We are talking about public displays of this shit.

You want to know what that flag really teaches? That depressed white trash people couldn't get over losing, but felt the need to intimidate the people whose very rights they fought to deny.

That's not valuable history, outside of that context.

So if you want to include that dumb flag in a museum, it should come with the description that it was used as a tool to intimidate newly freed slaves and their descendants.

But I doubt that is the history anyone takes from that dumb thing, and I believe you feel the same way.

there are all kinds of monuments, some are really disgusting.
I think it was Tenn that had a monument to a slave auction building! they finally took it down.

But they are other markers like the generic one in Virginia with simply a Rebel soldier.

Back in Baltimore where I come from I recall a statue of Christopher Columbus that was in a park near
where I grew up.
It was recently vandalized and removed...damn shame
WTF is "racist" about the Age of Exploration? it's how this continent became populated by Europeans.

Point being "it was what it was" and historical revisionism by it's very definition is not historical accuracy.
Teach the Truth

 

[LV426]

slavery was the root

OK, there we have it. Case closed.

So the Confederate Flag represents slavery, and Europeans have taken that to be synonymous with racism.

Otherwise, how the hell could they make that connection?

 

[dukkha]

Just the ones to the traitors. Traitors don't get to rest in peace.

battles had combatants -it takes 2 sides to war - you can't teach history by removing Confederate monuments

[quoteIf the Confederate Flag was banned, Dukkha will not be able to remember who lost the Civil War.[/QUOTE]
if the flag was banned there would be all these soldier fighting for what? It's a ridiculous construct

 

[LV426]

there are all kinds of monuments, some are really disgusting.

Whatabouting is pointless here. We are talking about monuments to traitors and losers.

But they are other markers like the generic one in Virginia with simply a Rebel soldier.

And that shit should be torn down. The only thing anyone should feel for those traitors is shame and derision. Traitors don't deserve monuments, and those monuments were erected to intimidate the newly freed slaves and their descendants, and the people who built those monuments even said so.

If I had it my way, I'd dig up every single Confederate grave, and toss the remains into the ocean, like we did to bin Laden.

Back in Baltimore where I come from I recall a statue of Christopher Columbus that was in a park near
where I grew up.
It was recently vandalized and removed...damn shame
WTF is "racist" about the Age of Exploration? it's how this continent became populated by Europeans.

Columbus didn't populate shit, and he committed genocide.

Point being "it was what it was" and historical revisionism by it's very definition is not historical accuracy.

So you'll forget who lost the civil war if we tear down the monuments to the traitors, but keep the ones to the Union soldiers? OK. You probably have brain damage, then, if your memory is that poor.

 

[dukkha]

So...to Europeans, the Civil War represents slavery and the Confederate Flag represents racism.

How on earth could they have gotten that idea?

they only focus one one aspect.
I can guarantee you for ex. Lee did not consciously fight for "racism" or slavery. He fought for Virginia and the Confederacy as a whole

 

[LV426]

battles had combatants -it takes 2 sides to war - you can't teach history by removing Confederate monuments

Sure you can.

Imagine a world where there are no Confederate monuments, but there are Union ones.

So you're saying in that world, no one will know the Union won?

 

[LV426]

if the flag was banned there would be all these soldier fighting for what? It's a ridiculous construct

They were fighting for slavery. We don't need a flag or a monument to know that. We have their actual words and deeds. How do those monuments teach about their words and deeds? Take me through it.

 

[LV426]

they only focus one one aspect.

Ah, so you're saying they need to BoThSiDeS it?

Why is it that the European racists fly the Confederate Flag but not the American one?

 

[LV426]

I can guarantee you for ex. Lee did not consciously fight for "racism" or slavery. He fought for Virginia and the Confederacy as a whole

Of course he fought for slavery. Virginia and the Confederacy were all about slavery. That's why they seceded. YOU SAID SO YOURSELF that slavery was the "root" (your words, bud).

 

[Micawber]

"The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, …"

Several other states had similar language eg Mississippi/Texas/SC)

The root cause of the war and the meaning of their flag are not subject to serious or reasonable dispute. It doesn't mean there were not good people in the south then, and today.
But good people doesn't excuse using a racist flag now for any other reason than informing people of that evil cause to the end it is neither forgotten nor repeated.

 

[Micawber]

Of course he fought for slavery. Virginia and the Confederacy were all about slavery. That's why they seceded. YOU SAID SO YOURSELF that slavery was the "root" (your words, bud).

" and the Federal Government having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slaveholding States. "


Virginia Ordinance of Secession 1861

I'm not positive but I think the primary cause was the refusal of non-slave states to comply with the fugitive slave act which required remanding of southern property.

That law analogous to sanctuary cities in that way, sort of... So there was informal assistance from north transporting slaves and then refusal of the law to give them back.
It pitted puritanical Christians in New England who were activist against the slave interests in the south.

A good read is McPhearson Battlecry of Freedom

 

[Flash]

Right, but Confederate Flags are displayed in public places, and had been displayed on public lands. Same with the monuments. How do monuments that glorify those traitors teach history? What lesson do they teach?

The OP is about a Civil War museum.

 

[LV426]

battles had combatants -it takes 2 sides to war

So...we have to give participation trophies? Aren't you the people who denigrate that? Why do they need a participation trophy?

 

[dukkha]

Whatabouting is pointless here. We are talking about monuments to traitors and losers.

incorrect attribution. the thing/person being memorialized can have different characteristics.
I wouldn't expect a blind progressive to anything other then that to understand nuance -but there it is

And that shit should be torn down. The only thing anyone should feel for those traitors is shame and derision. Traitors don't deserve monuments, and those monuments were erected to intimidate the newly freed slaves and their descendants, and the people who built those monuments even said so.

If I had it my way, I'd dig up every single Confederate grave, and toss the remains into the ocean, like we did to bin Laden.

hopefully your insanity doesn't prevail, although young progs are exceedingly unable to do details.
Congress gave Confederates amnisty, and recognition after the war. I'll go wit the contemporaries who lived through it instead of Cultural Revolution types like you why deny history

Columbus didn't populate shit, and he committed genocide.

I said "Age of Exploration" and he was a leading figure of that period

So you'll forget who lost the civil war if we tear down the monuments to the traitors, but keep the ones to the Union soldiers? OK. You probably have brain damage, then, if your memory is that poor.

studying the Civil war is much more then about who lost
It's about who we were, how we ended the original sin of slavery, and then became a modern nation-
all part of a continuuim

 

[LV426]

The OP is about a Civil War museum.

No, it's about the logo of the Civil War museum.

Don't worry Flash, you can jack off to all the Confederate flags *in* that dumb museum you'd like.

 

[LV426]

incorrect attribution. the thing/person being memorialized can have different characteristics.

So you want to revise history, then.

Got it.

 

[LV426]

I wouldn't expect a blind progressive to anything other then that to understand nuance -but there it is

The problem with this self-victimization is that your nuance is about as subtle as a jackhammer, and so is the nuance of the unwashed Trampanzees who wave that dumb flag with glee.

 

[archives]

Also, any Conservatives who exercises sophistry about the Civil War while neglecting to mention that Lincoln and the Republicans literally fought the war to preserve federal authority over the states is a fucking dipshit.

Conservatives, aka "small government buttheads" are completely at ideological odds with the Republican Party of 1863.

True, the Republicans of the Civil War era were anything but right, they didn't refer to them as the "Radical Republicans" because they were conservative

 

[dukkha]

if they could do it, why cant we?

Union soldiers (left) and confederate soldiers (right) shake hands at Gettysburg on the 50th anniversary of the battle, 1913

 

[LV426]

ihopefully your insanity doesn't prevail, although young progs are exceedingly unable to do details.

Oh, what details am I missing?

They fought for slavery, lost, and have whined about it ever since.

They wave that flag as a way of saying "sure, our bullshit garbage beliefs were defeated, but we're keeping the spirit of those bullshit garbage beliefs alive. Nyah!"

Fuck those people.