College football - off season chatter

WinterBorn said:
USA Today released their Coaches Poll.

Could be a great year!

Rank Team Points
1. Alabama 1,545 (58)
2. Ohio State 1,427 (3)
3. Oregon 1,397
4. Stanford 1,262
5. Georgia 1,250
6. Texas A&M 1,215 (1)
7. South Carolina 1,136
8. Clemson 1,047
9. Louisville 1,010
10. Florida 930
11. Notre Dame 872
12. Florida State 844
13. LSU 797
14. Oklahoma State 726
15. Texas 622
16. Oklahoma 620
17. Michigan 589
18. Nebraska 426
19. Boise State 420
20. TCU 400
21. UCLA 202
22. Northwestern 186
23. Wisconsin 172
24. USC 165
25. Oregon State 135
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This is so wrong ;)
 
The preseason polls came and the SEC fix is already in. God we need a tournament to end this corruption. Six teams in the top 13 per ESPN (who has billions of dollars tied directly into the SEC and shouldn't, from an objective standpoint, even be issuing polls at all.). Anyone who knows anything about statistic at all knows that this is all the proof you need that the BCS is corrupt as hell and is specifically geared to assure an SEC team is in the championship game. They have made a complete joke of the National Championship game.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
The preseason polls came and the SEC fix is already in. God we need a tournament to end this corruption. Six teams in the top 13 per ESPN (who has billions of dollars tied directly into the SEC and shouldn't, from an objective standpoint, even be issuing polls at all.). Anyone who knows anything about statistic at all knows that this is all the proof you need that the BCS is corrupt as hell and is specifically geared to assure an SEC team is in the championship game. They have made a complete joke of the National Championship game.
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Oh please!! YOU think the SEC PAID to have our teams ranked? Get real!

And your statistics argument is nonsense. I understand statistics quite well. But the only way a statistical model would show anything is if the various schools were even to start with. Obviously they are not.

First it was "The SEC doesn't play in cold weather!" and now its that we bribed our way in? Winning a shitload of games has nothing to do with it?
 
Here is who voted in the poll:

"List of VotersThe USA TODAY Sports Board of Coaches is made up of 62 head coaches at Bowl Subdivision schools. All are members of the American Football Coaches Association. The board for the 2013 season: David Bailiff, Rice; Frank Beamer, Virginia Tech; Tim Beckman, Illinois; Bret Bielema, Arkansas; Bill Blankenship, Tulsa; Terry Bowden, Akron; Art Briles, Baylor; Troy Calhoun, Air Force; Matt Campbell, Toledo; Rod Carey, Northern Illinois; Dave Christensen, Wyoming; Dave Clawson, Bowling Green; Larry Coker, Texas-San Antonio; David Cutcliffe, Duke; Mark Dantonio, Michigan State; Tim DeRuyter, Fresno State; Ron English, Eastern Michigan; Larry Fedora, North Carolina; Jimbo Fisher, Florida State; Kyle Flood, Rutgers; Dennis Franchione, Texas State; James Franklin, Vanderbilt; Al Golden, Miami (Fla.); Todd Graham, Arizona State; Jim Grobe, Wake Forest; Mike Gundy, Oklahoma State; Bryan Harsin, Arkansas State; Bobby Hauck, UNLV; Mark Helfrich, Oregon; Brady Hoke, Michigan; Dana Holgorsen, West Virginia; Doc Holliday, Marshall; Mark Hudspeth, Louisiana-Lafayette; Curtis Johnson, Tulane; Joey Jones, South Alabama; June Jones, Southern Methodist; Brian Kelly, Notre Dame; Jerry Kill, Minnesota; Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech; Mike Leach, Washington State; Rocky Long, San Diego State; Dan McCarney, North Texas; Bronco Mendenhall, Brigham Young; Urban Meyer, Ohio State; Les Miles, LSU; Ken Niumatalolo, Navy; George OLeary, Central Florida; Bo Pelini, Nebraska; Chris Petersen, Boise State; Mark Richt, Georgia; Mike Riley, Oregon State; Rich Rodriguez, Arizona; Nick Saban, Alabama; Steve Spurrier, South Carolina; Rick Stockstill, Middle Tennessee; Bob Stoops, Oklahoma; Charlie Strong, Louisville; Dabo Swinney, Clemson; Kevin Sumlin, Texas A&M; Don Treadwell, Miami (Ohio); Tommy Tuberville, Cincinnati; Kyle Whittingham, Utah. AFCA policy bars schools under major NCAA or conference sanctions from receiving votes."


So ESPN bribed all those head coaches?? Really?
 
[sarcasm] WB, we all know it is a conspiracy to promote those southern universities while holding the northern ones down. Pay attention will you. You know, the ones who are in those worthless states...where people wear the moniker 'redneck' with pride. [/sarcasm]
 
WinterBorn said:
Oh please!! YOU think the SEC PAID to have our teams ranked? Get real!

And your statistics argument is nonsense. I understand statistics quite well. But the only way a statistical model would show anything is if the various schools were even to start with. Obviously they are not.

First it was "The SEC doesn't play in cold weather!" and now its that we bribed our way in? Winning a shitload of games has nothing to do with it?
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Really? Well how about this statistic. In the BCS era the SEC's record against the other big 6 conferences in regular season play is 0.512 and that includes losing percentages agains the Pac 12 (0.454) and the Big 12 (0.375) and a 0.500 record against the mighty Big East. Note that most of these games were played in the SEC. So the best they can do against the other big 6 conferences with a predominant home field advantage is a 0.512 winning percentage? Seriously? That's superior?

Mythology of SEC superiority just shot down. Particulary in light of the SEC's traditional cowardess in playing outside their own backyards. Anyone with even an elementary knowledge of statistics and probabilities knows that there's a skunk in the woodpile when it comes to the mythological SEC superiority. Until ya'll play on the road against USC, OSU, Oklahoma, Texas, Notre Dame or Michigan, as they have had no problem playing ya'll on your home turf and win the over whelming majority of those games, such prattling about SEC mythological superiority falls in deaf ears except to those who believe for beliefs sake and disregard the facts.

I mean SEC claims of superiority are as absurd as Bama's historical claims to National Championships where as everyone and their brother knows that Bamas claims to any National Championship prior to 1970 when they finally integrated is a joke as Bama's teams were demonstrably inferior at the national level compared to the rest of the nations integrated teams. Their claim to the 1973 national championship is a perfect example of dubious claims of superiority. Bama was anointed National Champions by the Coaches poll even before they played Notre Dame in the Sugar bowl where Bama got handed their asses by the Fighting Irish (who in all truth were the undisputed National Champions in 73). So lets have a reality based discussion about the SEC. In reality, they are equal to the other Big 6 conferences. They are in no way superior and if they had to comply with the academic standards of the the other big 6 conferences Florida would be the only SEC team that would be competitive nationally.

In other words, given their performance on the field in regular season play against other big 6 conferences, the only statistic that matters, the probability of the SEC having half of the top 12 teams in the nation are extremely remote. The only way this can happen is PR and interest-politics pandering. In other words, corruption.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
Really? Well how about this statistic. In the BCS era the SEC's record against the other big 6 conferences in regular season play is 0.512 and that includes losing percentages agains the Pac 12 (0.454) and the Big 12 (0.375) and a 0.500 record against the mighty Big East. Note that most of these games were played in the SEC. So the best they can do against the other big 6 conferences with a predominant home field advantage is a 0.512 winning percentage? Seriously? That's superior?

Mythology of SEC superiority just shot down. Particulary in light of the SEC's traditional cowardess in playing outside their own backyards. Anyone with even an elementary knowledge of statistics and probabilities knows that there's a skunk in the woodpile when it comes to the mythological SEC superiority. Until ya'll play on the road against USC, OSU, Oklahoma, Texas, Notre Dame or Michigan, as they have had no problem playing ya'll on your home turf and win the over whelming majority of those games, such prattling about SEC mythological superiority falls in deaf ears except to those who believe for beliefs sake and disregard the facts.

I mean SEC claims of superiority are as absurd as Bama's historical claims to National Championships where as everyone and their brother knows that Bamas claims to any National Championship prior to 1970 when they finally integrated is a joke as Bama's teams were demonstrably inferior at the national level compared to the rest of the nations integrated teams. Their claim to the 1973 national championship is a perfect example of dubious claims of superiority. Bama was anointed National Champions by the Coaches poll even before they played Notre Dame in the Sugar bowl where Bama got handed their asses by the Fighting Irish (who in all truth were the undisputed National Champions in 73). So lets have a reality based discussion about the SEC. In reality, they are equal to the other Big 6 conferences. They are in no way superior and if they had to comply with the academic standards of the the other big 6 conferences Florida would be the only SEC team that would be competitive nationally.

In other words, given their performance on the field in regular season play against other big 6 conferences, the only statistic that matters, the probability of the SEC having half of the top 12 teams in the nation are extremely remote. The only way this can happen is PR and interest-politics pandering. In other words, corruption.
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The SEC's record may not be great. But look at the teams that are ranked and see what their record is against those conferences. If you include Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss State and Kentucky, sure they lost games. But those teams are not the ones being consistently ranked.
 
Also, I think you would have trouble finding any post I made talking about the number of championships Bama has won, and especially the older ones. That makes a nice distraction but is really not part of the discussion. First you talk about the BCS Era, and then want to bring up championships prior to 1970 or the 1973 one?

How about 25-2 in the last 2 years? How about 3 BCS Championships in 4 years? How about 61-7 since the beginning of the 2008 season? In that time we have played Penn ST twice, Clemson, VaTech, Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, and Texas and beaten them all.

Historical superiority? Who cares. BCS Era, the SEC has kicked ass.

Also, if there is corruption, as you claim, which of the coaches listed would you say too payola from ESPN or the SEC?
 
leaningright said:
[sarcasm] WB, we all know it is a conspiracy to promote those southern universities while holding the northern ones down. Pay attention will you. You know, the ones who are in those worthless states...where people wear the moniker 'redneck' with pride. [/sarcasm]
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Leaning, I laughed out loud at your post.

But this is not the first time Mott has tried to do this. He has complained that SEC schools don't have the academics, that they won't play in cold weather (like real men would), and now that we are paying off the people doing the polls.
 
WinterBorn said:
The SEC's record may not be great. But look at the teams that are ranked and see what their record is against those conferences. If you include Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss State and Kentucky, sure they lost games. But those teams are not the ones being consistently ranked.
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You're rationalizing. All the Big 6 conferences have their power houses and their weak sisters and the schedules are evenly distributed making the statistics on winning percentage statistically valid. The notion of SEC superiority is debunked. It's a delusion of SEC fans.
 
WinterBorn said:
Also, I think you would have trouble finding any post I made talking about the number of championships Bama has won, and especially the older ones. That makes a nice distraction but is really not part of the discussion. First you talk about the BCS Era, and then want to bring up championships prior to 1970 or the 1973 one?

How about 25-2 in the last 2 years? How about 3 BCS Championships in 4 years? How about 61-7 since the beginning of the 2008 season? In that time we have played Penn ST twice, Clemson, VaTech, Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, and Texas and beaten them all.

Historical superiority? Who cares. BCS Era, the SEC has kicked ass.

Also, if there is corruption, as you claim, which of the coaches listed would you say too payola from ESPN or the SEC?
Click to expand...
That wasn't the point of my rant. The point is, is that SEC fans are delusional about this notion of "superiority" as the facts don't bear that out. The facts bear out that their just as good as the other Big 6 conferences....but not better. Alabamas claim to 14 national championships is just more evidence of SEC delusions of grandeur.

That gets us back to the topic I started. The BCS is corrupt in favor of the SEC and the statistics prove the case. The SEC has only one around 11% of the undisputed College Football national championships prior to the BCS....then WHOOPS all of a sudden they're winning more than 50%? That's proof of statistical improbability right there. The USA Today/ESPN poll (I mean come on.....you can't honestly see the conflict of interest here?) listed 6 of the top 13 teams as SEC teams. Again, the statistical probability of that occurring based on the SEC's winning percentage are remote. It should in reality be 2 SEC teams in the top 13 based on the leagues won lost record against Big 6 competition. Three would be within the realm of statistical probability but would be close to being a statistical outlier where as 6? Thats completely improbable based upon the results on the field. The only thing that could explain that is corruption and one only has to listen to all the hype on ESPN about the SEC's mythological superiority and know about their multi-billion dollar investment in the SEC to know what the source of the corruption is.

As for the SEC kicking ass.....at 0.512 winning percentage against Big 6 competition is hardly kicking ass. You're just as good as the other Big 6 conferences but not better. The proof has been played out on the field proves this and ESPN's talking heads opinions and those of SEC supporters means exactly squat. Just because someone keeps repeating something that isn't true doesn't make it true.
 
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WinterBorn said:
Leaning, I laughed out loud at your post.

But this is not the first time Mott has tried to do this. He has complained that SEC schools don't have the academics, that they won't play in cold weather (like real men would), and now that we are paying off the people doing the polls.
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I didn't say they we're paying off people doing the polls. I said the BCS is corrupt and it is. The BCS has been specifically geared and set up to protect ESPN's investment in SEC football and it virtually gaurentees at least one SEC team will be in the NCG which explains the SEC's 0.500 record during the BCS era.

I'd put money on this. Once the nation goes to an 8 or 16 team championship tournament which would be based primarily on Big 6 conference champions getting automatic bids and a selection committee picking the balance you'll see the SEC's NC percentage drop back to it's historic levels of around 15%. Which is wear statistical probability based on their regular season performance on the field would predict it to be.
 
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