Dano's Offensive/Racist Moniker

[Cancel7]

You seemed different, I asked a question because I worried about it. That is all.

I have no problem looking in the mirror, or working on becoming what I want to see happen throughout society. Whether you attempt to find some hidden message in what I wrote, it really was something I had a question on.

Well, I'm fine thanks.

 

[Onceler]

I wouldn't mind Damo's "devil's advocate" thing if it was equally spread out (bipartisan, so to speak).

He always seems to advocate along the same patterns, though. He has a particularly soft spot for Dano, which is somewhat incomprehensible...

 

[Damocles]

Give me a break Damo.

I just wish that you would drop this faux devils' advocate role you enjoy playing. I don't get my "feelings hurt" when I get called those names here. But if I decide to see how the offenders like having the tables turned on them, why do you feel the need to jump in and say something about it? You feel no such need when they call me those names, and I want to be really clear about this: I DON'T WANT YOU TO.

It's your jumping in when the morons get some back that is unfathomable to me. Just stay out of it all together.

I don't need to get called on the carpet by you for something that is said to me every freaking day here. Just leave it alone.

I was not calling you out onto the carpet. You are being overly sensitive. What did I say to you that had anything to do with that?

 

[blackascoal]

This is what I meant when I said it is likely he did it to invoke a discussion, the idea that it was benign didn't enter my head. I thought that he was expecting an uproar, and got what he expected.

Regardless, there are very few threads with such a frank discussion on 'racism' on the board, and fewer in society. Whether it was his intention, something good can come of it.

Unfortunately my brother, this is not a frank discussion about race. It's a discussion about ignorance.

I agree with you that there are few frank discussions about race in this society, but those discussions are avoided and the term "race card" was invented to intentionally avoid frank discussions. One may not like her style for whatever reason, but Darla engages in frank discussions about race. She speaks quite frankly in my opinion and she speaks to issues that I cannot because I'm not white. Too bad there aren't more Darla's who will not tap dance around the truth of American racism.

All that's required for evil to persist is good people who do nothing about it.

 

[Damocles]

Unfortunately my brother, this is not a frank discussion about race. It's a discussion about ignorance.

I agree with you that there are few frank discussions about race in this society, but those discussions are avoided and the term "race card" was invented to intentionally avoid frank discussions. One may not like her style for whatever reason, but Darla engages in frank discussions about race. She speaks quite frankly in my opinion and she speaks to issues that I cannot because I'm not white. Too bad there aren't more Darla's who will not tap dance around the truth of American racism.

All that's required for evil to persist is good people who do nothing about it.

I think any discussion about 'racism' is a discussion of ignorance.

There was a specific reason I worried about what I did. I was honestly questioning something because the "voice" was different than what I expect.

I am clear that it hasn't happened so I'm good with that. However, frank discussion of ignorance, IMO, is saying the same thing as frank discussion of 'racism'. Not a discussion of 'race' but of 'racism'.

There is nothing like a good discussion that can clear up the cloud of ignorance on any subject. Maybe not for every participant, but for many. How else can we learn when the subject itself is so often avoided and/or shut down in one form or another?

 

[Immanuel]

I appreciate the civility of your approach to this, but I have indeed stated this was intentional racist ignorance. This isn't like you walking into a bar full of gays and making an offense comment. This is more like you walking into a bar you know has gays in it, then making an offense comment to intentionally cause an uproar.

No one should question Darla, USC, or anyone else's right to challenge and be upset about this ignorance simply because they aren't black. It's an affront to people of conscience and dignity and they have every right to speak out against it, just as I have every right to speak out against sexism and homophobia even though I'm not a woman or gay .. and trust me, I do speak truth to ignorant people who engage in that bullshit.

In fact, what has been missing from the American mindset is more people who are not black, who are not women, and who are not gay, taking a firm stand and speaking out and acting against injustice and America's lingering racist evil.

I haven't said much in these threads about this ignorance because it isn't necessary. I stated my opinion early on and who wouldn't know this is offensive to blacks.

I think this does not do this site any good to allow this kind of racist behavior. Most civil sites would have tossed his ass out long ago .. however, the good news is that there are people of conscience here as well and watching them take a stand against racism and belittle the 8th grade mentality that would engage in it, is worth the price of admission.

Put it this way .. the best thing about when Michael Richards blew up in a comedy club and started spouting off the nigxxr insults was that it was white people who shouted him down. It was white people who were offended by his ignorance and it was white people who booed his dumb ass off the stage.

That was priceless and a demonstration that overt racism is no longer accepted as the American norm.

I would suggest that in spite of how long you may have known this nutcase, you should recognize that his act was intentional, evidenced by the fact that he still has the image as his avater.

There are times when "civility" is not the answer and it only ends up enabling the cancer.

What I meant about not having seen you or LadyT make a statement about this issue was that the two of you held your cool. This issue was brought up by Ib1 and that was where I got into it.

I have not questioned Darla's, Ib1's or USC's right to challenge this. Nor do I disagree with them in the least.

I am trying to be civil about it. I think Dano was wrong for doing it especially since he knew it was offensive. I will however, tell you that I did not realize it was offensive to anyone. I know what blackface is or at least I thought I did, but not being a fan of the old theater, I did not have any idea that it was or is considered a racist symbol.

Was it intentional? Of course it was, Dano has stated so himself.

As for me speaking out against racism and the others you mention, I may not always know when something is racist (as I did not realize this was) but when I see it, I will speak out against it as well. I typically am not confrontational. I will typically attempt to be civil with it at least until someone pushes one of my buttons.

What I find offensive is that the reverse is not done by liberals. Reverse racism is tolerated by many liberals while they bitch and moan at what we all call racism. Racism is wrong no matter what race is affronted or being offensive. It is wrong whether the victim be Black, Jewish, Arab, Asian, Native American or even white but some think Polish jokes are funny while they get livid at jokes about black people or laugh at "dumb blondes" jokes but get pissed at stupid redneck jokes. Personally, I can laugh at all until they cross a given line.

I'm not perfect. I did not catch the racist undertones of Dano's avatar until Ib1 pointed it out. As I said, I saw your avatar as a Black Panther and I did not get the allusion to blackface on Dano's avatar until it was pointed out to me. I'd rather be civil to Dano even though I find his deliberate offense to be wrong then to rant and rave about it and not have him listen to me.

You can't convince a member of the KKK (not saying that Dano is any such thing) that he iis extremely wrong in his ways by beating the shit out of him with a baseball bat. All that will do is convince him that he is right in the first place. Better to point out the errors of his ways and keep doing so until it gets through his thick skull (and yes, I am saying Dano has a thick skull).

One more thing, my analogy wasn't perfect. But I tried.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Regardless, there are very few threads with such a frank discussion on 'racism' on the board, and fewer in society. Whether it was his intention, something good can come of it.

And that IS a good thing.

I can tell you that I learned that blackface is considered offensive. I WILL guard my words and my actions in the future about it.

Immie

 

[blackascoal]

I think any discussion about 'racism' is a discussion of ignorance.

There was a specific reason I worried about what I did. I was honestly questioning something because the "voice" was different than what I expect.

I am clear that it hasn't happened so I'm good with that. However, frank discussion of ignorance, IMO, is saying the same thing as frank discussion of 'racism'. Not a discussion of 'race' but of 'racism'.

There is nothing like a good discussion that can clear up the cloud of ignorance on any subject. Maybe not for every participant, but for many. How else can we learn when the subject itself is so often avoided and/or shut down in one form or another?

Frank and honest discussions about racism/race do not come out of someone drawing a blackface nor someone shouting nigxxr. Those kind of mindless antics should be met head-on with disgust, comdemnation, and disrespect for those who engage in it. And, discussions about racism/race are not always a discussion about ignorance. Quite often they are discussions about apathy and the inability to discern reality beyond the stereotypes and daily onslaught of racist images.

The problem I have with your approach is that you seemed to have more questions of Darla than the idiot who started this. I say that with respect for you brother and respect for the difficult balancing act you must play.

Darla seems angry, but she's angry because she's principled.

Now matter how you slice it, there is NO justification for what Brain-dead did. You're putting lipstick on a pig by suggesting that it's leading to something positive.

I think I'll post a thread where we can have a frank discussion about race that doesn't begin with ignorance.

 

[uscitizen]

BAC, imho most race problems are caused by ignorance and fear of difference resulting from said ignorance.

 

[Damocles]

Now matter how you slice it, there is NO justification for what Brain-dead did. You're putting lipstick on a pig by suggesting that it's leading to something positive.

I think I'll post a thread where we can have a frank discussion about race that doesn't begin with ignorance.

Which will also be fine. It will have sprouted from this, though.

I do not think it was Dano's intention to have a frank discussion, I think it was more likely a "gotcha" game he thought he would play. It was meant to create anger.

As for the questions I asked Darla, they really had little to do with the subject and more to do with something else, that she can choose to tell you about if she wishes.

That we choose to have a frank discussion regardless of his intention to incite, shows that there is something good that can dome from it regardless of the intention. It isn't about personality or Dano that I post, but from a genuine urge to find something positive that began differently but becomes something else.



If nobody else sees it, then so be it. I have no urge to 'defend' Dano, he's a big boy and if he sees a need can do that on his own. Although any attempt to defend will just become 'digging a deeper hole'.... My advice to Dano would be to 'let it go'.

 

[Immanuel]

I think I'll post a thread where we can have a frank discussion about race that doesn't begin with ignorance.

Looking forward to it.

Hopefully, I will learn something from it.

Immie

 

[Cancel7]

Which will also be fine. It will have sprouted from this, though.

I do not think it was Dano's intention to have a frank discussion, I think it was more likely a "gotcha" game he thought he would play. It was meant to create anger.

As for the questions I asked Darla, they really had little to do with the subject and more to do with something else, that she can choose to tell you about if she wishes.

That we choose to have a frank discussion regardless of his intention to incite, shows that there is something good that can dome from it regardless of the intention. It isn't about personality or Dano that I post, but from a genuine urge to find something positive that began differently but becomes something else.



If nobody else sees it, then so be it. I have no urge to 'defend' Dano, he's a big boy and if he sees a need can do that on his own. Although any attempt to defend will just become 'digging a deeper hole'.... My advice to Dano would be to 'let it go'.

I think that if bac starts another thread about race, that would be great. I don't know if anything good came out of this one, other than a lot of anger, because it was started by a very angry person. Dano is a very angry man. It's difficult not to react to that.

Damo told me he was sincere in questioning me, because he wasn't sure this was me. Not as a way of defending Dano, so I will take his word for it.

 

[DigitalDave]

Dano, I think you went overboard. Trying to point out a liberal double standard isn't explanation enough, and using blackface is very offensive. I know you are always trying to piss the liberals off but that ain't the way to do it. You may be ignorant as to how offensive blackface is, and you would treat it equally as whiteface, but looking back into history, blackface was used because they did not allow black people to act, they wanted to keep them seperated from whites as much as possible. They used white actors and painted them black to play a black character, rather than allowing a black man be on the same stage. That is why it's a symbol of racism. It is not the same as whiteface.

 

[Damocles]

Dano, I think you went overboard. Trying to point out a liberal double standard isn't explanation enough, and using blackface is very offensive. I know you are always trying to piss the liberals off but that ain't the way to do it. You may be ignorant as to how offensive blackface is, and you would treat it equally as whiteface, but looking back into history, blackface was used because they did not allow black people to act, they wanted to keep them seperated from whites as much as possible. They used white actors and painted them black to play a black character, rather than allowing a black man be on the same stage. That is why it's a symbol of racism. It is not the same as whiteface.

Not just that, but they invariably acted uneducated and just plain ignorant while in black face. Even to speaking in high-pitched voices that were clearly meant to mock and denigrate.

 

[DigitalDave]

Not just that, but they invariably acted uneducated and just plain ignorant while in black face. Even to speaking in high-pitched voices that were clearly meant to mock and denigrate.

I just started reading his other thread and he brought up the movie 'White Chicks'. Somehow that is supposed to be the same as the history of blackface. Jimmy Kimmel colors his face to impersonate Shaq, and you don't hear screams of racism. Though he is using blackface, he isn't doing it to be racist, it's required for him to look like Shaq and do his skit. It's the same as White Chicks, where they need to dress up as white women to play that role. The jistory of blackface was much different, and there were clear racial purposes behind using it.

 

[blackascoal]

What I meant about not having seen you or LadyT make a statement about this issue was that the two of you held your cool. This issue was brought up by Ib1 and that was where I got into it.

I have not questioned Darla's, Ib1's or USC's right to challenge this. Nor do I disagree with them in the least.

I am trying to be civil about it. I think Dano was wrong for doing it especially since he knew it was offensive. I will however, tell you that I did not realize it was offensive to anyone. I know what blackface is or at least I thought I did, but not being a fan of the old theater, I did not have any idea that it was or is considered a racist symbol.

Was it intentional? Of course it was, Dano has stated so himself.

As for me speaking out against racism and the others you mention, I may not always know when something is racist (as I did not realize this was) but when I see it, I will speak out against it as well. I typically am not confrontational. I will typically attempt to be civil with it at least until someone pushes one of my buttons.

What I find offensive is that the reverse is not done by liberals. Reverse racism is tolerated by many liberals while they bitch and moan at what we all call racism. Racism is wrong no matter what race is affronted or being offensive. It is wrong whether the victim be Black, Jewish, Arab, Asian, Native American or even white but some think Polish jokes are funny while they get livid at jokes about black people or laugh at "dumb blondes" jokes but get pissed at stupid redneck jokes. Personally, I can laugh at all until they cross a given line.

I'm not perfect. I did not catch the racist undertones of Dano's avatar until Ib1 pointed it out. As I said, I saw your avatar as a Black Panther and I did not get the allusion to blackface on Dano's avatar until it was pointed out to me. I'd rather be civil to Dano even though I find his deliberate offense to be wrong then to rant and rave about it and not have him listen to me.

You can't convince a member of the KKK (not saying that Dano is any such thing) that he iis extremely wrong in his ways by beating the shit out of him with a baseball bat. All that will do is convince him that he is right in the first place. Better to point out the errors of his ways and keep doing so until it gets through his thick skull (and yes, I am saying Dano has a thick skull).

One more thing, my analogy wasn't perfect. But I tried.

Immie

DAMN .. I just wrote a post to Damo saying that nothing positive was going to come from this thread and here you come with an intelligent ass post.

Thanks a lot buddy.

Seriously, I hope my post to you didn't sound too critical because that was not my intention. I appreciate your sincere response. Thanks

I do understand your perspective and I hope you understand mine. When I said that sometimes civility isn't the answer, it's because somestimes there can be no room for hate of any vestiges of hate. Sometimes anger, comdemnation, or even aggression is not only proper, it's also required. One cannot claim to stand on principles, or even to have principles if they do not know where the line is. Having principles means there is a line that cannot be crossed. What he did was racist and it crosses the line. I understand that you were not aware of it's implications, but he was fully aware of them. Now that you do know, perhaps you can better understand what some of us have been saying.

In regards to "reverse racism", discussions about what that is percieved to be rarely happen without using the word "liberal." This isn't about liberals, it about justice and humanity. Shouldn't conservatives have a sense of justice and humanity? Is affirmative action reverse racism? We can have that discussion and I'll base my perspective about it on only what is just and humane, not political ideology.

Start from here .. African-Americans have been in this country for almost 400 years and we've only been relatievly free for 42 years.

Now we can talk about anything you want starting from there.

You are quite obviously an intelligent guy with a sense of spirituality. What I ask is that you take a moment to walk in those shoes. This isn't about political ideology my brother. This is about who we are as Americans.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

I still love you darla

*hugs you*

 

[blackascoal]

Which will also be fine. It will have sprouted from this, though.

I do not think it was Dano's intention to have a frank discussion, I think it was more likely a "gotcha" game he thought he would play. It was meant to create anger.

As for the questions I asked Darla, they really had little to do with the subject and more to do with something else, that she can choose to tell you about if she wishes.

That we choose to have a frank discussion regardless of his intention to incite, shows that there is something good that can dome from it regardless of the intention. It isn't about personality or Dano that I post, but from a genuine urge to find something positive that began differently but becomes something else.



If nobody else sees it, then so be it. I have no urge to 'defend' Dano, he's a big boy and if he sees a need can do that on his own. Although any attempt to defend will just become 'digging a deeper hole'.... My advice to Dano would be to 'let it go'.

I appreciate you my friend .. didn't intend to be critical, just thoughts from one brother to another.

 

[Immanuel]

DAMN .. I just wrote a post to Damo saying that nothing positive was going to come from this thread and here you come with an intelligent ass post.

Thanks a lot buddy.

Seriously, I hope my post to you didn't sound too critical because that was not my intention. I appreciate your sincere response. Thanks

I do understand your perspective and I hope you understand mine. When I said that sometimes civility isn't the answer, it's because somestimes there can be no room for hate of any vestiges of hate. Sometimes anger, comdemnation, or even aggression is not only proper, it's also required. One cannot claim to stand on principles, or even to have principles if they do not know where the line is. Having principles means there is a line that cannot be crossed. What he did was racist and it crosses the line. I understand that you were not aware of it's implications, but he was fully aware of them. Now that you do know, perhaps you can better understand what some of us have been saying.

In regards to "reverse racism", discussions about what that is percieved to be rarely happen without using the word "liberal." This isn't about liberals, it about justice and humanity. Shouldn't conservatives have a sense of justice and humanity? Is affirmative action reverse racism? We can have that discussion and I'll base my perspective about it on only what is just and humane, not political ideology.

Start from here .. African-Americans have been in this country for almost 400 years and we've only been relatievly free for 42 years.

Now we can talk about anything you want starting from there.

You are quite obviously an intelligent guy with a sense of spirituality. What I ask is that you take a moment to walk in those shoes. This isn't about political ideology my brother. This is about who we are as Americans.

I did not feel your response was being to critical. I will admit to being somewhat naive about racial issues. Part of the reason for that is that I blindly see you (meaning your color) as equal to me. That is not to say, I don't see the difference, but rather that I don't see what a difference the difference makes.

I have no problem with the anger that Darla feels and I am glad that Ib1 brought up the issue. However, we all have our styles. Mine is not to call another a dumb son of a bitch for being racist (and I stop short of calling Dano a racist here because he may have had other motives that I just don't understand). Mine is rather to show a dumb son of a bitch that he is racist with honey so to speak. Neither style works all the time but sometimes one style works better than the other.

I don't think I better understand what you were saying, because as soon as I realized the implications of Dano's avatar, I understood the issue. Let me put it this way, sometimes if we miss one allusion in the joke the whole joke goes over our heads. This one did for me mostly because I saw a cat in your avatar and couldn't figure out what Dano was doing. It just didn't click.

As for conservatives having a sense of Justice and humanity, I still consider myself a conservative and I believe that I have both. Believe it or not! And I don't think I am such a rarity either.

Yes, I believe AA is reverse racism. As I said, we are all equal. That means I believe that we should all be treated equally. I am all for our government helping the needy get into schools, but I do not believe in any way shape or form that this should be based upon color. There are needy people of all colors. But then that is just my humble opinion.

I realize that African Americans have only be treated somewhat equal for 42 years. That is not my fault. Nor is it the fault of most people living today. I can do nothing to change the past, but I can work to change today and the future. I realize life as an African American can be tough and I'm all for making it easier, but I don't want making it easier to be based upon skin color, I want it based upon actual need. Is that wrong of me?

Maybe I am wrong, but I am the first to admit that it is not the first time and it won't be the last... unless I keel over and die shortly after pressing the "submit reply" button.

Immie

 

[blackascoal]

As for conservatives having a sense of Justice and humanity, I still consider myself a conservative and I believe that I have both. Believe it or not! And I don't think I am such a rarity either.

One of my heroes of the Civil Rights Era was conservative republican Seantor Everett Dirksen from Illinois. Without his leadership, The Civil Rights Act would not have passed. So I believe what you say .. however, my point was that justice and humanity should be filed under political "liberal." We should all want equality.

Yes, I believe AA is reverse racism. As I said, we are all equal. That means I believe that we should all be treated equally.

We SHOULD be all treated equally but there is litle question that we aren't. We do not live in a world of "should", we exist in the world of "are." Wishing something were the reality is not the same as being the reality.

I am all for our government helping the needy get into schools, but I do not believe in any way shape or form that this should be based upon color. There are needy people of all colors. But then that is just my humble opinion.

I agree with you in some regard, however, after 364 years of slavery and overt oppression one cannot declare that racism is over and everybody is equal from this point without taking steps to repair the damage from hundreds of years of insanity. That is a long way from fairness or any sense of justice.

I realize that African Americans have only be treated somewhat equal for 42 years. That is not my fault. Nor is it the fault of most people living today. I can do nothing to change the past, but I can work to change today and the future. I realize life as an African American can be tough and I'm all for making it easier, but I don't want making it easier to be based upon skin color, I want it based upon actual need. Is that wrong of me?

I'm not blaming you for the injustice of the past, but government and society has a responsibility to the people both have damaged. I wasn't around for the genocide of the American Indian either, but I have no problems with anything government or society determines is just in ensuring their equality and survival. Is that not justice?

Maybe I am wrong, but I am the first to admit that it is not the first time and it won't be the last... unless I keel over and die shortly after pressing the "submit reply" button.

Immie

It's not about being wrong my brother, it's about what is justice.

Unbeknownst to most people, white women have faired better with AA than have black people. Most programs for the disabled have been folded into AA programs.

Did either white women and the disabled deserve a mechanism to ensure their fair participation in society? I maintain that both most definately did and do.

We are all responsible for our society.