democrats don't understand what fascism is

archives said:
Bullshit, Fascism is political, Fascist movements do not have any fixed economic principles and have included both elements of capitalism and socialism
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Fascism is a type of economy. It is not a form of government.
Fascism is a form of socialism. Socialism is not capitalism. Redefinition fallacies.
 
One of the central tenants of fascism is the idea of Nationalism and the individual being subsumed into the State. In Hitler's version of it, the term for this was Volksgemeinschaft. There is no direct single word in English that translates this idea.

What volksgemeinschaft is as a concept is most closely associated with the veteran's term Band of Brothers. That is, it conveys that those who are part of a volksgemeinschaft way of thinking have an intensely shared set of experiences and values that often exclude outsiders. Hitler experienced the military version of this in his WW 1 service in the army as frontgemeinschaft which is very much the exact same concept as band of brothers. As part of his fascist state, Hitler wanted to replicate that sense of belonging to the population as a whole through patriotism, nationalism, and ethnic and racial bonding.

Mussolini brought the same sort of thing to his stripe of fascism in Italy as well.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Socialism is an economic system. Fascism is a system of government for a society that incorporates socialist ideas within it.
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Fascism incorporates right-wing idealism and totalitarian power. Fascism is a marriage between corporations, the wealthy, and a powerful government centered on one strong leader and his followers. If that sounds like Trump, it should.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Sure it is. The economy can vary some--a good deal-- in a fascist state. Capitalism can be allowed. Statist capitalism is the norm. Fascism requires nationalism (as opposed to internationalism like Communism wants). Fascism tends towards authoritarian or totalitarianism not because of the economy but because it requires the individual be consumed within the state. That is, the state controls what people do, say, and think.

Tyranny, as you put it, is necessary for control of society in a fascist state. The economy can work in a variety of ways so long as it remains doing rightthink to use an Orwellian term.
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You're getting it. Capitalism can accompany fascism, but it is not fascism. Capitalism is not socialism. All forms of socialism, which are based on theft of wealth, REQUIRES capitalism to be present (which is the only economic system that creates wealth). After all, socialism MUST have someplace it can steal from.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Socialism is an economic system. Fascism is a system of government for a society that incorporates socialist ideas within it.
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No. Fascism is an economic system. It is simply one form of socialism (which includes communism, fascism, and slavery). It is not a form of government. Governments that implement it are typically oligarchies or dictatorships. It takes tyranny to implement fascism.
 
Trumpet said:
You need to look-up the definition of fascism.

Fascism is a system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
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Fascism is not a form of government, although implementing it is typically done with an oligarchy or dictator.
Capitalism requires NO government and NO controls. It does not suppress anyone. It has nothing to do with nationalism or racism.

Capitalism is the voluntary production of products and services for voluntary sale at an agreed upon price.
Anyone can play. Capitalism has no racism.
Anyone can play. Capitalism is not nationalism.
Anyone can play. Capitalism requires no belligerency at all.
Anyone can play. Capitalism suppresses no one.
Fascism is not capitalism. Redefinition fallacy.
 
Into the Night said:
Fascism is a type of economy. It is not a form of government.
Fascism is a form of socialism. Socialism is not capitalism. Redefinition fallacies.
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No matter how many times you repeat it you are still wrong, Fascism is political, as I said, it has no defined economic ideology and borrows from both

Mussolini simplified the tax code, cut taxes, curbed spending, liberalized trade restrictions and abolished rent controls. Hitler abolished all labor Unions and privatized the banks. You going to tell us now they are both socialist
 
Nordberg said:
Fascism incorporates right-wing idealism and totalitarian power. Fascism is a marriage between corporations, the wealthy, and a powerful government centered on one strong leader and his followers. If that sounds like Trump, it should.
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Wrong. Fascism is very much a Leftist concept. There is no need for corporations or the wealthy to be part of government in a fascist state beyond their being nationalistic and following the government rules on participation in society. That many fascist governments practice statist capitalism or socialism comes with their being dictatorships to force rightthink within society.

To define fascism as on the Right means that the concept of Left and Right have no relative or quantitive value. The relationship, as you appear to define it, is purely subjective. That is, you put fascism on the Right because you want to, not because you can make some clear set of defined reasons it should be.

I on the other hand stick it on the Left because it is totalitarian, subsumes the individual in favor of the state, and generally has a more centrally planned economy. In my model a Fascist government would be an 7 to 9 on the government scale, an 8 or 9 on the social scale, and a 6 to 9 on the economic scale placing it firmly on the Left.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
One of the central tenants of fascism is the idea of Nationalism and the individual being subsumed into the State. In Hitler's version of it, the term for this was Volksgemeinschaft. There is no direct single word in English that translates this idea.

What volksgemeinschaft is as a concept is most closely associated with the veteran's term Band of Brothers. That is, it conveys that those who are part of a volksgemeinschaft way of thinking have an intensely shared set of experiences and values that often exclude outsiders. Hitler experienced the military version of this in his WW 1 service in the army as frontgemeinschaft which is very much the exact same concept as band of brothers. As part of his fascist state, Hitler wanted to replicate that sense of belonging to the population as a whole through patriotism, nationalism, and ethnic and racial bonding.

Mussolini brought the same sort of thing to his stripe of fascism in Italy as well.
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Both nations were dictatorships at the time, with all the tyranny that implies. While Hitler and Mussolini both used patriotism, patriotism in and of itself is not fascism nor any form of socialism. It is not even an evil thing.
 
archives said:
No matter how many times you repeat it you are still wrong, Fascism is political, as I said, it has no defined economic ideology and borrows from both

Mussolini simplified the tax code, cut taxes, curbed spending, liberalized trade restrictions and abolished rent controls. Hitler abolished all labor Unions and privatized the banks. You going to tell us now they are both socialist
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This goes with what I stated. First and foremost fascism is a form of government for control of the state. The economic portion of a fascist government has more flexibility so long as the participants in that economy toe the line socially (in particular) and stay within the government's rules for behavior within society.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Wrong. Fascism is very much a Leftist concept. There is no need for corporations or the wealthy to be part of government in a fascist state beyond their being nationalistic and following the government rules on participation in society. That many fascist governments practice statist capitalism or socialism comes with their being dictatorships to force rightthink within society.

To define fascism as on the Right means that the concept of Left and Right have no relative or quantitive value. The relationship, as you appear to define it, is purely subjective. That is, you put fascism on the Right because you want to, not because you can make some clear set of defined reasons it should be.

I on the other hand stick it on the Left because it is totalitarian, subsumes the individual in favor of the state, and generally has a more centrally planned economy. In my model a Fascist government would be an 7 to 9 on the government scale, an 8 or 9 on the social scale, and a 6 to 9 on the economic scale placing it firmly on the Left.
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Maybe you ought to use something else besides the Trumpian dictionary.
 
Nordberg said:
Fascism incorporates right-wing idealism and totalitarian power. Fascism is a marriage between corporations, the wealthy, and a powerful government centered on one strong leader and his followers. If that sounds like Trump, it should.
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Fascism is not conservatism. Fascism is a form of socialism. That's DEMOCRATS, dude.
Trump is not a fascist. He is a capitalist (and a successful one!). Biden is a fascist, though. So are DEMOCRATS. They are fascists and communists. They WANT government to manipulate and own markets.
 
Here is the definition of Fascism

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
 
archives said:
No matter how many times you repeat it you are still wrong, Fascism is political, as I said, it has no defined economic ideology and borrows from both

Mussolini simplified the tax code, cut taxes, curbed spending, liberalized trade restrictions and abolished rent controls. Hitler abolished all labor Unions and privatized the banks. You going to tell us now they are both socialist
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Fascism is not a form of government. It is a type of socialism. No matter how many times you try to redefine it, you are still just trying to redefine it. It is government manipulation of markets. That's a defined economic ideaology.
Both Hitler and Mussolini are both socialists. They are both fascists. So is Biden and the Democrats.

Mussolini did not cut taxes or curb spending.
Hitler abolished the labor unions because he wanted the government to be the labor union. You should look up the meaning of the 'NAZI' acrnonym sometime. He did not privatize the banks. Germany was using fiat currency at the time. To support the Third Reich, Hitler stole wealth from those he conquered.
 
Trumpet said:
Here is the definition of Fascism

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
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That definition is wrong. So? It starts off with a subjective statement, Fascism is a far-right... That is never defined in terms of any objective form of measure.
 
Into the Night said:
...and YOU believe EVERYTHING that Hollywood tells you to believe, don't you?

Gawd...what a loser.
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Says the inverted-brained simian that doesn't know where Sweden is.

Got those degrees of latitude figures yet , addlepate ?


Haw, haw..................................haw.
 
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