Despicable Christians using trickery and lies.

IHateGovernment said:
Most people who take certain kinds of medications don't have really bad side effects. Never the less the drug maker should have to tell you.

Hell on Sweet & Low they tell you that it has cause cancer in Rats even.

I would think that as a liberal you would insist that businesses fully disclose the effects of their product. Why don't you demand it here.

Tell the whole truth.
Click to expand...

I think your own emotional response is up to you. I know people who regret having breast implants, do you think the Doctor should be required to tell you that you might later regret it?

What about tatoos? Many people regret having gotten a tat... should they be required to tell you you might regret it later?

BUT REGARDLESS, PP tells women that some do later regret having had an abortion! THey tell them that some people suffer emotional trauma!
 
We don't know the whole truth.
Cell phones cause brain tumors ? Power lines cause brain tumors , etc....
Abortion causes warts ?
 
"Emotional Problems After Abortion
Serious, long-term emotional problems after abortion are extremely rare and less common than they are after childbirth. Such problems are more likely if

the pregnancy was wanted but the health of the fetus or the woman was in danger
having an abortion is related to serious problems in a relationship or other disturbing life events
a woman is depressed or has other emotional problems that predate her pregnancy

If you need to talk with someone after an abortion, abortion providers can talk with you or refer you to a counselor."
 
Alex it isn't simple regret. Its deep mental anguish that can lead to deep depression and even suicide.

It is not appropriate to compare them to breast implants or tatoos those can be removed. You cannot undo death.

PP tells them you may regret it which is a very light word. Or that they may be depressed in the short term. This isnt' the whole story.
 
Serious, long-term emotional problems after abortion are extremely rare and less common than they are after childbirth.

This appears to be false.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Our study employed the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth (NLSY), a general purpose study, which has interviewed 6283 women since 1979. It contains psychological assessments administered in 1979 (the Rotter Internal-External Locus of Control scale) and 1992 (the Center for Epidemiological Studies Depression scale) and variables related to pregnancy outcome.

Compared to post-childbirth women, aborting women (n=735) were found to have significantly higher depression scores as measured an average of10years after their pregnancy outcome. Higher depression scores could not be accounted for by confounding variables.

Controlling for age, total family income, and locus of control scores prior to the first pregnancy event, post-abortive women were found to be 41% more likely than non-aborting women to score in the "high-risk" range for clinical depression. Furthermore, in response to a self-assessment question administered in 1998, aborting women were 73% more likely to complain of "depression, excessive worry, or nervous trouble of any kind" an average of 17 years post-abortion.

A weakness of this study is that only 40% of the expected abortions are reported the NLSY population. Since concealment would tend to dilute the observed effects, the actual rate of depression in the "high-risk" range may be considerably higher than suggested by this data. Concealment of abortions in the NLSY was lowest among whites and married women. As expected, analysis by race and marital status confirmed that the differences in depression scores were highest among the groups with the least concealment.

Pre-abortion and pre-childbirth locus of control scores were analyzed. As predicted, the locus of control scores correlated well with depression scores for both nulliparous and childbearing women but this correlation disappeared for aborting women. This suggests that aborting women may either (1) experience a shift toward a more external locus of control, or (2) experience a different type of depression than other women.

Additional longitudinal research is warranted. Implications for future research are discussed.

http://clinmed.netprints.org/cgi/content/full/2001030002v1
 
IHateGovernment said:
Serious, long-term emotional problems after abortion are extremely rare and less common than they are after childbirth.

This appears to be false.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Our study employed the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth (NLSY), a general purpose study, which has interviewed 6283 women since 1979. It contains psychological assessments administered in 1979 (the Rotter Internal-External Locus of Control scale) and 1992 (the Center for Epidemiological Studies Depression scale) and variables related to pregnancy outcome.

Compared to post-childbirth women, aborting women (n=735) were found to have significantly higher depression scores as measured an average of10years after their pregnancy outcome. Higher depression scores could not be accounted for by confounding variables.

Controlling for age, total family income, and locus of control scores prior to the first pregnancy event, post-abortive women were found to be 41% more likely than non-aborting women to score in the "high-risk" range for clinical depression. Furthermore, in response to a self-assessment question administered in 1998, aborting women were 73% more likely to complain of "depression, excessive worry, or nervous trouble of any kind" an average of 17 years post-abortion.

A weakness of this study is that only 40% of the expected abortions are reported the NLSY population. Since concealment would tend to dilute the observed effects, the actual rate of depression in the "high-risk" range may be considerably higher than suggested by this data. Concealment of abortions in the NLSY was lowest among whites and married women. As expected, analysis by race and marital status confirmed that the differences in depression scores were highest among the groups with the least concealment.

Pre-abortion and pre-childbirth locus of control scores were analyzed. As predicted, the locus of control scores correlated well with depression scores for both nulliparous and childbearing women but this correlation disappeared for aborting women. This suggests that aborting women may either (1) experience a shift toward a more external locus of control, or (2) experience a different type of depression than other women.

Additional longitudinal research is warranted. Implications for future research are discussed.

http://clinmed.netprints.org/cgi/content/full/2001030002v1
Click to expand...

Does this account for women who are depressed and or having serious emotional problems that pre-dated there pregnancy?
 
IHateGovernment said:
Alex it isn't simple regret. Its deep mental anguish that can lead to deep depression and even suicide.

It is not appropriate to compare them to breast implants or tatoos those can be removed. You cannot undo death.

PP tells them you may regret it which is a very light word. Or that they may be depressed in the short term. This isnt' the whole story.
Click to expand...

Anything can lead to deep depression and suicide.
GWB as President for example. Perhaps the WH web site needs to expose the full truth about Bush as well ?
 
Jarod said:
"Emotional Problems After Abortion
Serious, long-term emotional problems after abortion are extremely rare and less common than they are after childbirth. Such problems are more likely if

the pregnancy was wanted but the health of the fetus or the woman was in danger
having an abortion is related to serious problems in a relationship or other disturbing life events
a woman is depressed or has other emotional problems that predate her pregnancy

If you need to talk with someone after an abortion, abortion providers can talk with you or refer you to a counselor."
Click to expand...
This is more of the "brushing aside" the long-term effects, Jarod. There are many outside studies done by credible sources that show clear mental anguish and include suicide.

This is like believing the Tobacco companies when they said their product could not be linked to cancer.

"Side-Effects" are just one of the things other doctors MUST give when giving a surgery, even remote chances of death are discussed. But in this one, they just side-step it by attempting to say that they are statistically unimportant? They brush aside effects saying that they had "previous mental problems"... If we did that for women after rape, and ignored the serious consequences of that one, we'd be hearing it right now.

Next we'll start hearing how it is "all their fault", should the doctor have to advise on such "side-effects"... YES.
 
IHateGovernment said:
There is simply no justification for withholding information.
Click to expand...

I agree, and without conseding the point, if PP is doing the same thing as the Crisis Pregnancy Center they are acting dispicable. If there are truely scientific studies that say what you claim they say, they should be provided.

My experience with PP is that they offer very ballanced information. I dont belive they are encouraging abortion, I belive they are tryting to provide an unbiased source of information.
 
Jarod said:
I agree, and without conseding the point, if PP is doing the same thing as the Crisis Pregnancy Center they are acting dispicable. If there are truely scientific studies that say what you claim they say, they should be provided.

My experience with PP is that they offer very ballanced information. I dont belive they are encouraging abortion, I belive they are tryting to provide an unbiased source of information.
Click to expand...
PAS is medically controversial and you'll find that only a small minority of OBs and therapists believe in it. Planned Parenthood does make such information available, however.
 
i was given no warning on the possibilty of depression, or any warning on the possibility that i could be made barren ... infertile...from the procedure...

both occurred...both still affect me.... i honestly can't say if i was told about the possible side effects it would have changed my mind back then, when i was so young, and so scared....but i still think i should have been told, and not in some unoffensive.... soft waxing over manner, but with graphics of possible side effects!

of course this was ages ago, the late 70's.... and maybe they did not know as much back then......?
 
of course this was ages ago, the late 70's.... and maybe they did not know as much back then......?
//

:) if you asked someone back in the 70's they would think we knew just as much then as we think we do now :D
That never changes, most of us seem to think each generation has it figured out.
Is it witches float or sink ?
 
IHateGovernment said:
Because there are more males on the site. There are only three regular female posters. Care is the only one who really chimes in on this. Darla doesn't appear to like to debate this with men, and Tiana isn't on too much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I really don't like to. I'll tell you why. In my experience, most of you are full of shit on the subject if you want to know the truth. I could tell you some stories, believe me.

Let's just say that the reason I respect Care's position on this, while not agreeing with it, is because she is the only pro-lifer I have ever come across who truly gets it. And she doesn't let men get away with claiming that women are lining up to "kill their babies" while the poor fathers to be have no say so. She knows that's the biggest load of horseshit going. As do I. As do nearly all women.

Now, this doesn't apply directly to you, because I have read enough of your posts to believe that you are not a woman-hater, either consciously or unconciously.
 
Damocles said:
I raised my nephew for two years because the guilt from the first abortion, years afterward, made it so my sister couldn't bring herself to abort even after she was raped. This is what I mean by direct and personal experience with those long-term effects that you want to deny just because you want to believe that these people are "doing good".

Those people convinced my sister on her first abortion that she would feel "relief" after a short period of some guilt... Come on, Jarod.

Your "experience" with this is incidental at best. Holding the hand of a friend who was upset over the guy dumping her? You weren't engulfed by her emotion... You have no idea what she may feel about this years later becuase she is unlikely to be telling you her inmost guilts like my sister would with myself.

Your pretense on this one is amazing to me. One group is ignoring the long-term and very real effects of abortion on a significant number of women yet you want to give them a pass because you really WANT them to be good....

Both sides on this issue are deceiving the other. If you want all of the information you have to look more than at one place.
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I feel very badly about what your sister went through. However, that she went through that, does not mean it's the norm. Which is something I don't think you get. You seem to believe that deep down, all, or most, women who have abortions must share these same feelings. That would be like claiming that a woman who suffers a very severe case of postpartum depression, including in some cases, severe enough to cause violent behavior towards her baby, is the norm for women giving birth. She's not either. That fact does not make her experience, nor the experience of her possibly abused infant, any less tragic. She needs help. So do women like your sister. But their experiences cannot be used to judge either the general experience of abortion, nor of giving birth.
 
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