Immanuel
Junior Member
Are you talking about CPC's or Planned Parenthood? Never mind... it is obvious you mean Planned Parenthood.
Immie
Despicable Christians using trickery and lies.
- Thread starter Jarod
- Start date
Are you talking about CPC's or Planned Parenthood? Never mind... it is obvious you mean Planned Parenthood.
Immie
Lao Tse
Verified User
Yeah. Like listening to ex heroine addicts is no way to judge the effects of heroine. How do you know what the norm is?
Listening to one ex-heroine addict is no way to judge the effects of heroine.
Are you making the claim that severe postpartum depression including harming your child is the norm?
Lao Tse
Verified User
I'm just wondering what you're basing your rejection of this person's testimony upon.
Is it based upon your bizarre predisposition toward supporting baby murder?
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I am not rejecting her experience at all. If she were a friend of mine, or even just someone that I knew, I would have done anything I could to help her.
I am rejecting the idea that her experience is representative of anyone else's experience.
Do you have a lot of success riling people with inflammatory and ludicrous statments? You'll have to get up a bit earlier to rile me. I've been flame-tested...as it ends up I'm retardant.
When did I ever say it was the norm? That is plain strawman technique...
I said that it happens and more often than, certainly, PP would ever admit. Despondency related to abortion is more prevalent than they care to state, and therefore they do not bother. They pass it off as "hormonal" and short-lived when they even do admit to it. Guilt never seems to cross their minds as a cause for anything relating to their tender mercies.
This glossover is tantamount to only giving the negative sides of abortion to others.
Many women go through it silently. They feel that if they speak about it that others will take them as an "anti-choice crazy" or a "pro-life terrorist". Or they feel that they will be judged as they are judging themselves for their action. Silent victims of a machine that doesn't even admit that there might be a problem for them and that if they voice their problem they are part of an even greater one.
There is a reason that many women that had abortions end up leading such causes on the other side. They are overcompensating for that loss. They are often made to feel alone, are told their issue is only "hormonal" and it will go away. When it doesn't happen they often pretend to make their friends happy. Silently in pain.
This is the experience I entered as a "pro-abortion" advocate, often stating that if I were a doctor I'd have to work as a provider because I believed that strongly of the right of women to control "their bodies". Until I found that somebody I loved really needed help. Amazingly she found a group of women willing to talk about these enormous feelings that had encompassed years of their lives. And each would tell you that it will effect them throughout their lives. Real long-term effects that are never mentioned on that site. The closest that Jarod could even find mentioned their "hormonal imbalance" as a cause of these "temporary effects".
It is easy to promote Planned Parenthood, until I read their propaganda, how they gloss over these issues. How such writing and the actions of others create a bubble of silence that they are not to burst. I advocate for these silent victims as well as understand, as did those women, that there is more than one life at stake in a room where an abortion is taking place.
As I read that portion of the website, I can't help hearing in my head some people who would say things to women that experienced the very real effects of PPD after giving birth to a healthy child.
These people need help, but even the reality of their need is ignored by the very provider and glossed over. "It's just your hormones." "Oh it will go away."... Yeah, I definitely hear people who don't understand a very real burden that some carry away with them.... Sounds like men who are just looking at a little wife and expect them to obey...
So, if you still think that I am "BS" or whatever, that is fine. But do not discount my positions because of my sex. People that I love, people that I know and respect, real people with long-term problems, have been effected by this. I know that they are out there, and I hear how they often feel so alone.
Damo, I did not say you were "BS". I understand where you are coming from. A tragic personal experience that hurt someone you love.
But tragic personal experiences cannot be used as the normative. And your whole thesis feels to me too much like protecting women for their own good. It strikes me as anti-feminist and paternalistic.
Did you know that a small percentage of people who undergo surgery experiene something called "awareness"? That is, the anaesthesia paralizes them so that they cannot speak, open their eyes or move, but they feel everything happening during the surgery? And that surgeons do not "warn" patients of this possibility because as one said in an article that I read about it "It happens once in a while and there's nothing we can do to stop that, if you warned people, they wouldn't have the surgery that will save their lives". It's horrifying, but it only happens to a small number of people, so we can't all stop having surgery because of it. However, I imagine that this is small comfort if you happen to be the one damned person it happens to that month.
I know many women who have had abortions, and I have never seen any sign of anything like a deep depression afterwards. These were women I am very close to. We all have anectodal evidence. The fact is, women are not weak, can make their own choices and will have to deal with the consequences of those decisions. Certainly, they are more than capable of finding out on their own possible repercussions. We all have to do that. I once had a allergic reaction to something that caused a terrible rash. My doctor gave me something for it, and after I filled the prescription, I read the pamphlet that came with it. It contained steroids and the side-effects were just beyond the pale. I threw them away. I'm not becoming sterile over a rash. My doctor mentioned nothing about this. You must take responsibility for your own health, man or woman.
Damo, let me also make clear that I am not denying that what happened to your sister does happen. That would be like denying that postpartum depression exists. I'm not Tom Cruise.
As for PP's claim that guilt or depression felt afterwards is hormonal, that's not completely true. It's like when you are getting your period. Now, a lot of men like to make jokes about women at "that time of the month". But the truth is that women don't just go bug-fuck nuts when they're getting their period. You can get 12 periods a year, and during 10 of them will feel completely fine emotionally. However, if you are feeling down about something already, if something has happened, if say, some man has pissed you off or upset you, then, something that you would have shook off in a couple of hours, can take days. But those hormones need a trigger in order to start working their magics. A woman doesn't just wake up the day before her period and start with the "Do you think I'm pretty" thing. She has already had it on her mind, that you don't tell her she's pretty. Or she suspects something, for good reason. Hormones are not mystical and they do not make women crazy. They can, sometimes, enchance a feeling that already exists.
So a woman experiencing depression after an abortion, would not be experiencing it because of hormones...it might be made worse by hormones. But, within one month when hormone levels went back to normal, whatever depression was left, would be real depression.
I expect there are a number of women like your sister, and a number of women who feel nothing but relief after an abortion.
Neither of them are in the majority. I've known no women who experienced what your sister did, and only one who experienced nothing but relief. That woman already had three, nearly grown children and had an unexpected change of life pregnancy. The rest, have felt some sadness for a while, mixed with relief, and had moved on within months.
As for PP's claim that guilt or depression felt afterwards is hormonal, that's not completely true. It's like when you are getting your period. Now, a lot of men like to make jokes about women at "that time of the month". But the truth is that women don't just go bug-fuck nuts when they're getting their period. You can get 12 periods a year, and during 10 of them will feel completely fine emotionally. However, if you are feeling down about something already, if something has happened, if say, some man has pissed you off or upset you, then, something that you would have shook off in a couple of hours, can take days. But those hormones need a trigger in order to start working their magics. A woman doesn't just wake up the day before her period and start with the "Do you think I'm pretty" thing. She has already had it on her mind, that you don't tell her she's pretty. Or she suspects something, for good reason. Hormones are not mystical and they do not make women crazy. They can, sometimes, enchance a feeling that already exists.
So a woman experiencing depression after an abortion, would not be experiencing it because of hormones...it might be made worse by hormones. But, within one month when hormone levels went back to normal, whatever depression was left, would be real depression.
I expect there are a number of women like your sister, and a number of women who feel nothing but relief after an abortion.
Neither of them are in the majority. I've known no women who experienced what your sister did, and only one who experienced nothing but relief. That woman already had three, nearly grown children and had an unexpected change of life pregnancy. The rest, have felt some sadness for a while, mixed with relief, and had moved on within months.
It could be used for both!