Dishonest Women

Sun Devil said:
Here is the most honest thing I could say and believe and I know I'm not alone in this because a lot of men share the same perdicament. Why are women so fucking dishonest? I'll admit I get hit on by a lot of younger chicks. Like early 20's and as young as 18 which is kinda cool but I'm a very straight up blunt person but I notice women aren't yet a lot of women perpetrate that they're honest but I find out they're not. What the FAQ? Any ideas people? Also please miss me with the "men do it too" that shit is a given but I'm mostly referring to women who claim to be honest but aren't.
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Why not try expressing your problem in simple English so that the rest of us can understand?
 
Sun Devil said:
Yes but responsibility is learned and unfortunately times have changed. I personally think the phrase "nice guys finish last" is very much true.
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yeah my friend life feels that way.


walk the world as a nice person.


Some times you win and some times you lose.

You cant control other people but you can control how you approach the world.


Its not whether you win or lose its how you play the game.


Be a big boy and LEARN something from the times you get hurt.


learning all women are evil would be a really dumb thing to learn and its not true.


Learn people are complicated and learn what real respect and love look like flowing from a woman's eyes.


If all you say is true here you must be a petty good looking guy.


women seem to like how you look.


Im an average chick that won the lifetime love of a superhot guy


when I met my hubby he was dating a pretty blue eyed blonde girl who everyone thought was the life of the party and her dad was a wealthy Dr.


I made no approach on him while he was dating her.


we had an obvious chemistry and that pulsated back and forth every time we spoke ....but he was taken.


He after about two months broke up with her and approached me.


we started dating and she would be at partys and the like.


She still wanted him.


when she would start to flirt with him I would just leave the room.


I would just find another part of the party to be at.


I wanted no part of that kind of drama and even though we were dating we were not fucking married and I knew he could change his mind and go back to the girl he had been dating for two years before me.


He never did.


she never won him back from me the tom boy girl with average looks.


You know why?


Because he realized I was the one who acted honorably and was never mean to the girl who was his ex and never tried to make a drama out of any interactions between any of us.



fuckability is nice but being the kind of being that seeks to set things right and play the game with some brains and heart is far more important when you have to talk to someone for DECADES to come
 
give us an example and Ill tell you what he meant.

some people read things and actually TRY to understand what was meant.

Some read things in an attempt to deny understanding.
 
Dantès said:
This might be part of your problem right here. I never think about women in those terms or even in these underlying paradigms. But that is just me. I know there are plenty of men here who do and who say even worse things about the women they know and think about. I had a long talk on Friday with my boss who is an educated black man with a college degree and a lot going for him, and as a Black man in America in his early forties a lot going against him as well. And we talked for over an hour about relations with the opposite sex based on a new book I am reading by Estelle B. Freedman called Redefining Rape: Sexual Violence in the Era of Suffrage and Segregation (2013). And he made some similar comments about women who flirt with him in the context of his own inadequacies around socializing and talking with women. I mostly listened because he was talking about women dressing like whores and such and saying that such women were enticing men and men were not to be blamed i they got so excited by these clothing that they couldn't control themselves and so on. A conversation that I kept insisting was irrelevant because rape is rape and no means no and women should have the right to wear anything they feel comfortable in and so on probably to no avail. I can't say for sure. We have had many long discussions around different complex issues and mostly I understand his position but I don't always know how to respond because I know him well enough by now to have formulated some opinions on his particular and individual life experiences, which in some ways are not that much different than my own, except that he was a black man growing up as one of only two young black men in a quietly racist small town in America, that is, a place in the North where the water fountains didn't say Black and White but the daughters and their parents most certainly did! At the end of this conversation, or sometime in the middle of it, I became aware of just how important it is to somehow break through the idea that somehow men and women are different.

I don't know that women are that different from men. I haven't found it so, but it took a long time for me to come to that realization. Certainly our misogynistic society spends most of it's energy and propaganda from about the age of birth on, trying to make us believe this difference is natural and great. And that women are somehow inferior to men and that this inferiority is natural as well. But is it? A good part of feminist literature is devoted to the notion that whatever actual natural differences there are between the genders is nothing more than a social construct that makes it appear that we are somehow so different that the gap is unbridgeable and that even if the more enlightened men among us realize and accept gender equality, a fairly recent idea after all, that we can never really understand as Freud put it, "What women want!" But this is bullshit.

Most women if you ask them can tell you quite clearly what they want. My best friend is a bright, articulate, and incredibly marvelous and wondrous personality who says it succinctly, "I want peace, love, and happiness." I don't think that is all that different from what most men, who can get past the commodification of everything in a society that privileges wealth and toys above the basic emotional needs that we all have, want if they deign to think about it at all or articulate it. It is certainly similar to what I want. There isn't anything material there, at least on its face, it is all emotional and yet extremely difficult to secure in a postmodern world where the commodification of everything makes such ideas seem nearly foreign: as if peace could be purchased in old age in the form of a mountain retreat near a babbling brook in the Catskills or the Cascades, when it is a state of mind and not something that can be bought or indemnified, and certainly nothing that can be secured once and for all.

A youthful, Walter Benjamin, writing in 1911--over a hundred years ago for the mathematically challenged--suggested that we are all similar and that we all individuals and as such are composed of masculine and feminine elements and that in fact there are no men and women at all. That such labels are cultural artifacts and that there has never been a feminine culture or a youth culture or anything other than a masculine culture so we know little about what women would do because we have never allowed them to do it. This makes some sense to me and shows itself in a variety of ways not the least of which is the fact that the most powerful women so far, women like Margaret Thatcher, have in fact gotten to the pinnacle of power in masculine culture by being masculine. And that when the United States finally has a woman president she too will demonstrate the characteristics that our culture recognizes as necessary for a particular type of socially constructed masculine leadership. This also goes for the women who are becoming CEOs, they have to fit a culturally established masculine stereotype to reach that pinnacle, as if they spend their whole careers unlearning the cultural position they were once relegated to and finally have to accept the formula and the form that the masculine world we are all ensconced in has determined matters and is rewarded. This too is bullshit. but it goes on unconsciously in many instances and produces all kinds of problems among women and women activists.

In short, if we can get past women as different and see them as individuals just like us, a model that everyone from Mary Wollstonecraft, Margaret Fuller, George Sand (Amantine Lucile Aurore Dupin), and George Eliot (Mary Anne Evans) to Virginia Wolf and beyond have tried to deal with in different and individual ways, and start to read women authors and understand this as an important first step in the evolution of our own consciousnesses, whether men or women and then we might eventually after mush reading and reflection get to the point where we won't think of women as "bitches" at all but as our others and as our own completions and as our possible friends and relations who can be as uplifting and supportive of us as we should be of them. We cannot and will not get to understanding by commodifying our human relationships even though capitalism tells us we must, we get their by constantly going against the grain of culture and carefully unlearning all we know until we strip away all the shit and get to who we are and then reconstructing ourselves, which means our consciousnesses, in humanistic terms realizing that we need not material things but emotional connections to create the lives that we seek. And that isn't something most people have any experience in doing, so it is an individual project that each person can only do for themselves. And it doesn't happen overnight although in our need for immediacy we always think that it can. It takes years. Good luck!
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I think this is a good theory.



Both men and women are JUST barely learning to live outside of thousands of years of social constructs society has forced on them in a misguided attempt to keep mankind alive.


I having so many male influences in my life always felt unable to conform to what society tried to tell me to be.


I also know I think in a different manner than most humans I meet.


My mind goes straight to how any bit of information fits into my world philosophy.


Im philosophically driven.


people are people.

no matter if they have innies or outies.


the social constructs we run up against (both men and women) often get ignored.


switch up the social constructs for 100 years and you would see men complaining about the things women complain about and vise versa with women.


No social constructs


that would mean people just become more alike.


when I first became aware of the world it was the early sixties.


Many of you cant imagine just how filled that world was with social constructs that were ridiculous and soul crushing.


many of them are now gone.


Many people are now much freer to be who they were born.

THAT should continue.


live life from the inside out.


That is how we maximize the human talent that exists.


FORCING people to conform to what dead people thought in the generation before you is the ultimate of dumb
 
Sun Devil said:
Here is the most honest thing I could say and believe and I know I'm not alone in this because a lot of men share the same perdicament. Why are women so fucking dishonest? I'll admit I get hit on by a lot of younger chicks. Like early 20's and as young as 18 which is kinda cool but I'm a very straight up blunt person but I notice women aren't yet a lot of women perpetrate that they're honest but I find out they're not. What the FAQ? Any ideas people? Also please miss me with the "men do it too" that shit is a given but I'm mostly referring to women who claim to be honest but aren't.
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My take is that women are not inherently dishonest, they are about as dishonest as men. My suggestion, look at yourself and see if you are attracting the more dishonest of the group and ask why that might be. Often we see what we attract, not necessarily what is.

Sometimes I take a look at my friends, and I wonder, why are all men (bedsides myself) misogynistic assholes toward their wives, and why do the wives take that shit. After thinking about it a bit, I realize I live in a very conservative neighborhood in small town Florida, a place seriously lacking in higher education. I have to make an effort to find and associate with the type of people I feel comfortable with, rather than just be friends with those around me.
 
Sardonic said:
Well, the thread was going nicely till you lowered yourself once again. Maybe people should thread ban you, you just can't seem to stay civil, lately.
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I have this poster on 'Ignore', and whenever anyone quotes him I remember why! :)
 
Sardonic said:
Well, the thread was going nicely till you lowered yourself once again. Maybe people should thread ban you, you just can't seem to stay civil, lately.
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I will never be civil to people that call me a rapist, I told you that only last week. I also asked you to put me on ignore if it offends you, have you forgotten already?
 
christiefan915 said:
The first thing that struck me was your comment about getting hit on by girls from 18 to the early 20s. I'm sure you get hit on by women older than that also but you commented on the young ones.

You are in your early 30s, intelligent, funny, IMO easy-going, highly educated and employed. You have a lot to bring to the table. Why are you even giving teenaged girls the time of day? They don't have anything in common with you even down to basics such as life experience. Not all, but many girls in that age range are flighty and indecisive. They may be in "every night's a party" mode. They may be playing the field or changing out boyfriends like you change clothes. You didn't say what makes them dishonest. Maybe all you're looking for right now is a casual relationship and when you were straight up about it the girl said "okay" but inside she was thinking "I'm the one that can change his mind." Or it could be the opposite, you want more, they want less.

It's hard to say without more info. Desh had some awesome insights in her response. We don't know what kind of relationship you're actually looking for at the moment. My number one suggestion is that you try and find someone who's your intellectual equal. Anything else might be fun in the short-term but will probably not go the distance, if long-term is what you're aiming for.

It goes without saying that if you and the women are mainly interested in casual dating/sex, all bets are off!
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I get hit on by older women but older women think I'm a player. Its funny I don't have a picture but I get mistaken for lookin like Chris Brown (or Shannon Brown for Laker) alot. Hence is why a lot of stupid young girls hit on me. As far as what I look for just the "no drama" woman. I used to want an LA chick but they are crazy. I just think (going back to my original point) there are a lot of women that perpetrate being a good honest woman yet its false.
 
Abraxas said:
I will never be civil to people that call me a rapist, I told you that only last week. I also asked you to put me on ignore if it offends you, have you forgotten already?
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It is very sad you have lowered yourself to trolling. It is very sad that you have become so pathetic. I will put you back on ignore, in the same category as Desh, Big Money and Truth nd ILA, it seems this is who you are now. A shell, all dried up with revenge, of your former self.
 
Dantès said:
This might be part of your problem right here. I never think about women in those terms or even in these underlying paradigms. But that is just me. I know there are plenty of men here who do and who say even worse things about the women they know and think about. I had a long talk on Friday with my boss who is an educated black man with a college degree and a lot going for him, and as a Black man in America in his early forties a lot going against him as well. And we talked for over an hour about relations with the opposite sex based on a new book I am reading by Estelle B. Freedman called Redefining Rape: Sexual Violence in the Era of Suffrage and Segregation (2013). And he made some similar comments about women who flirt with him in the context of his own inadequacies around socializing and talking with women. I mostly listened because he was talking about women dressing like whores and such and saying that such women were enticing men and men were not to be blamed i they got so excited by these clothing that they couldn't control themselves and so on. A conversation that I kept insisting was irrelevant because rape is rape and no means no and women should have the right to wear anything they feel comfortable in and so on probably to no avail. I can't say for sure. We have had many long discussions around different complex issues and mostly I understand his position but I don't always know how to respond because I know him well enough by now to have formulated some opinions on his particular and individual life experiences, which in some ways are not that much different than my own, except that he was a black man growing up as one of only two young black men in a quietly racist small town in America, that is, a place in the North where the water fountains didn't say Black and White but the daughters and their parents most certainly did! At the end of this conversation, or sometime in the middle of it, I became aware of just how important it is to somehow break through the idea that somehow men and women are different.

I don't know that women are that different from men. I haven't found it so, but it took a long time for me to come to that realization. Certainly our misogynistic society spends most of it's energy and propaganda from about the age of birth on, trying to make us believe this difference is natural and great. And that women are somehow inferior to men and that this inferiority is natural as well. But is it? A good part of feminist literature is devoted to the notion that whatever actual natural differences there are between the genders is nothing more than a social construct that makes it appear that we are somehow so different that the gap is unbridgeable and that even if the more enlightened men among us realize and accept gender equality, a fairly recent idea after all, that we can never really understand as Freud put it, "What women want!" But this is bullshit.

Most women if you ask them can tell you quite clearly what they want. My best friend is a bright, articulate, and incredibly marvelous and wondrous personality who says it succinctly, "I want peace, love, and happiness." I don't think that is all that different from what most men, who can get past the commodification of everything in a society that privileges wealth and toys above the basic emotional needs that we all have, want if they deign to think about it at all or articulate it. It is certainly similar to what I want. There isn't anything material there, at least on its face, it is all emotional and yet extremely difficult to secure in a postmodern world where the commodification of everything makes such ideas seem nearly foreign: as if peace could be purchased in old age in the form of a mountain retreat near a babbling brook in the Catskills or the Cascades, when it is a state of mind and not something that can be bought or indemnified, and certainly nothing that can be secured once and for all.

A youthful, Walter Benjamin, writing in 1911--over a hundred years ago for the mathematically challenged--suggested that we are all similar and that we all individuals and as such are composed of masculine and feminine elements and that in fact there are no men and women at all. That such labels are cultural artifacts and that there has never been a feminine culture or a youth culture or anything other than a masculine culture so we know little about what women would do because we have never allowed them to do it. This makes some sense to me and shows itself in a variety of ways not the least of which is the fact that the most powerful women so far, women like Margaret Thatcher, have in fact gotten to the pinnacle of power in masculine culture by being masculine. And that when the United States finally has a woman president she too will demonstrate the characteristics that our culture recognizes as necessary for a particular type of socially constructed masculine leadership. This also goes for the women who are becoming CEOs, they have to fit a culturally established masculine stereotype to reach that pinnacle, as if they spend their whole careers unlearning the cultural position they were once relegated to and finally have to accept the formula and the form that the masculine world we are all ensconced in has determined matters and is rewarded. This too is bullshit. but it goes on unconsciously in many instances and produces all kinds of problems among women and women activists.

In short, if we can get past women as different and see them as individuals just like us, a model that everyone from Mary Wollstonecraft, Margaret Fuller, George Sand (Amantine Lucile Aurore Dupin), and George Eliot (Mary Anne Evans) to Virginia Wolf and beyond have tried to deal with in different and individual ways, and start to read women authors and understand this as an important first step in the evolution of our own consciousnesses, whether men or women and then we might eventually after mush reading and reflection get to the point where we won't think of women as "bitches" at all but as our others and as our own completions and as our possible friends and relations who can be as uplifting and supportive of us as we should be of them. We cannot and will not get to understanding by commodifying our human relationships even though capitalism tells us we must, we get their by constantly going against the grain of culture and carefully unlearning all we know until we strip away all the shit and get to who we are and then reconstructing ourselves, which means our consciousnesses, in humanistic terms realizing that we need not material things but emotional connections to create the lives that we seek. And that isn't something most people have any experience in doing, so it is an individual project that each person can only do for themselves. And it doesn't happen overnight although in our need for immediacy we always think that it can. It takes years. Good luck!
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Very good post
 
christiefan915 said:
I think the women here would like to sit down with you and hear all your stories!
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Not so much
As my point is always
After watching 1,000 guys strike out I learned
Nobody know what to say
Learn to listen and make friends with a bunch of woman
One of those friends will take it next level.
 
Sardonic said:
It is very sad you have lowered yourself to trolling. It is very sad that you have become so pathetic. I will put you back on ignore, in the same category as Desh, Big Money and Truth nd ILA, it seems this is who you are now. A shell, all dried up with revenge, of your former self.
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I could say the same about you as well, so by all means put me on ignore.
 
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