Does everyone start out an atheist?

Damocles said:
Again I will still disagree with your assessment. While mankind may have the inclination to believe in what they cannot see (needed it to avoid predation, you must believe that something is hiding in the bush, even if you don't have much evidence), it does not mean that they always fall for this inclination.

I believe that you too have mistaken desire for worship. While some people who liked Michael Jackson for instance may have brought it to the level of worship, the vast majority of them never did. Not everybody worships something. The "thing larger than me" that I believe in seeks no worship, nor praise and cares nothing for your attempt at psychic communication with it.

We are all connected, each life its own piece of that "thing larger than myself". I don't worship God, because it is worthless to do so. Deists would be another group who wouldn't worship God, because God doesn't care. Belief in something "larger than yourself" does not necessarily equate to worship.
Click to expand...

Whoa, hold on... I never said a thing about it "requiring" you to worship or "seeking" worship, did I? Nope... in fact, I went way outta my way to explain why "God" wouldn't have such a requirement. I also said that "worship" is a subjective term, you do understand what "subjective" means, right? Because you don't call what you do "worship" doesn't mean that it's not, it's just not considered "worship" by you. However, as you admit, you do "believe" in something greater than self, all humans do "believe" in something... it's what makes us uniquely different from the apes and chimps.
 
Damocles said:
No sane father, whether the kids go next door and claim another man to be "Daddy" would torment the kids forever for it, and it wouldn't make it less of a crime if he warned them they better believe in him and worship him or he would torture them.
Click to expand...
I consider it logical....if the kids go next door and claim the other man to be "daddy" they should expect to go spend eternity with him and not be upset because the other guy they rejected doesn't let them join him in paradise.....it's their freely made choice....eternity may suck, but it's the eternity they chose....
I always say, if you're going to make your own god you better be prepared to make your own paradise as well.....
 
uscitizen said:
Does a new born child belive in a god or deity?
Click to expand...

I have no idea what I was thinking when I was two days old. But, it probably had something to do with an obsession with breasts.


And, really, I haven't changed that much in that regard.... :o
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and I am merely pointing out that my deity doesn't do the things you said he does....
Click to expand...
But he does, considering the only statement that I made about your deity is that he will throw people into Hell if they don't believe in His boy. The rest of my statements are examples of rules that were placed upon people by deities throughout the ages and actions allowed to take place in the name of those deities.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I consider it logical....if the kids go next door and claim the other man to be "daddy" they should expect to go spend eternity with him and not be upset because the other guy they rejected doesn't let them join him in paradise.....it's their freely made choice....eternity may suck, but it's the eternity they chose....
I always say, if you're going to make your own god you better be prepared to make your own paradise as well.....
Click to expand...
I don't particularly think that would be logical. It is emotive, not logical.

And again, that does little to tell me why a Deity who is All Powerful would need or expect any worship, or even to have you believe in it.
 
Damocles said:
I don't particularly think that would be logical. It is emotive, not logical.

And again, that does little to tell me why a Deity who is All Powerful would need or expect any worship, or even to have you believe in it.
Click to expand...

how many options are there.....a deity who creates a universe by accident and walks on down the street leaving it lay on the sidewalk?.....a deity who creates a universe to serve as a snowglobe?, shaking it from time to time?.....a deity who creates a universe as a scientific experiment (are we the control group or is his thesis that if you flip this switch in the DNA the little buggers will really fuck things up).....my belief is, a deity who created a situation in which you can identify those that choose to believe out of nothing more than love......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
how many options are there.....a deity who creates a universe by accident and walks on down the street leaving it lay on the sidewalk?.....a deity who creates a universe to serve as a snowglobe?, shaking it from time to time?.....a deity who creates a universe as a scientific experiment (are we the control group or is his thesis that if you flip this switch in the DNA the little buggers will really fuck things up).....my belief is, a deity who created a situation in which you can identify those that choose to believe out of nothing more than love......
Click to expand...

But there is love without god. In fact, god likes hate and racial supremacism according to the old testament.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
we're talking about worship.....I am referring to a love of God.....the rest of your post is nothing more than a recital of your general level of ignorance....
Click to expand...

What has god done for you lately?

You see those foot prints back there? Where yours stop and you can see god left you there and was drinking beer and playing volleyball with hot babes? Look at the real evidence, CSI.
 
Last edited:
PostmodernProphet said:
how many options are there.....a deity who creates a universe by accident and walks on down the street leaving it lay on the sidewalk?.....a deity who creates a universe to serve as a snowglobe?, shaking it from time to time?.....a deity who creates a universe as a scientific experiment (are we the control group or is his thesis that if you flip this switch in the DNA the little buggers will really fuck things up).....my belief is, a deity who created a situation in which you can identify those that choose to believe out of nothing more than love......
Click to expand...
You keep anthropomorphizing and adding to this Deity human emotions and drives that would not exist within a being that lives for eternity and has no limits to its powers. Why would such a being care if you believed in it? It wouldn't diminish it in any way whatsoever.
 
Damocles said:
You keep anthropomorphizing and adding to this Deity human emotions and drives that would not exist within a being that lives for eternity and has no limits to its powers. Why would such a being care if you believed in it? It wouldn't diminish it in any way whatsoever.
Click to expand...

look, I'm not adding anything....if the scriptures have any purpose whatsoever, it is to communicate him to us...(putting aside questions of believing in either for the sake of argument)......and what is communicated is that he does, regardless of why....

Mark 12:28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[f] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[g]There is no commandment greater than these."

and this was not a new message...
Deuteronomy 6:4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
 
AssHatZombie said:
What has god done for you lately?

You see those foot prints back there? Where yours stop and you can see god left you there and was drinking beer and playing volleyball with hot babes? Look at the real evidence, CSI.
Click to expand...

You want to conduct a crime scene investigation? Seriously, WTF????

The real question, Asshate, is what has ur mom done for you lately?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
look, I'm not adding anything....if the scriptures have any purpose whatsoever, it is to communicate him to us...(putting aside questions of believing in either for the sake of argument)......and what is communicated is that he does, regardless of why....

Mark 12:28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[f] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[g]There is no commandment greater than these."

and this was not a new message...
Deuteronomy 6:4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see. Again with the "Because God said so." argument.

This is a logical fallacy, I've even pointed it out to you before.

It seems more logical that humans wrote the Bible to add God into history and that less advanced humans anthropomorphized than it does that an all-powerful being has issues with its self-esteem.
 
Damocles said:
Ah, I see. Again with the "Because God said so." argument.

This is a logical fallacy, I've even pointed it out to you before.

It seems more logical that humans wrote the Bible to add God into history and that less advanced humans anthropomorphized than it does that an all-powerful being has issues with its self-esteem.
Click to expand...

I love the way these debates always go. It's okay to use scriptures to prove that God orders rape or genocide, but you can't use the scriptures to tell us what he really wants because we can't believe what the scriptures say. If you want to assume God exists for the sake of argument, you can't eliminate part of the formula to win it.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I love the way these debates always go. It's okay to use scriptures to prove that God orders rape or genocide, but you can't use the scriptures to tell us what he really wants because we can't believe what the scriptures say. If you want to assume God exists for the sake of argument, you can't eliminate part of the formula to win it.....
Click to expand...
The thing of it is, my argument isn't specific to this particular Deity and I need no proof that God exists. I believe in God differently than you do, but I believe in a God.

What I want is a logical reason for why an all powerful Deity would need constant attention and affirmation consistent with worship.

"The Bible says so." <- This is not a logical reason for such a need.

And as I said before, I think it is far more likely that the Israelites won a war then attributed their actions after the fact to what God ordered than it is that God actually ordered the genocide and capturing of those virgins.

In short, I did the exact opposite of what you are saying here. When I applied logic I was able to come up with a different scenario than "God ordered this" and one that is IMO far more logical. So far the only person who says it is logical to say, "Because the Bible says so." is you. And I have pointed out to you that this is a logical fallacy.

It's like a child who says that he knows more about injury because his mother is a Nurse.
 
Damocles said:
The thing of it is, my argument isn't specific to this particular Deity and I need no proof that God exists. I believe in God differently than you do, but I believe in a God.

What I want is a logical reason for why an all powerful Deity would need constant attention and affirmation consistent with worship.

"The Bible says so." <- This is not a logical reason for such a need.

And as I said before, I think it is far more likely that the Israelites won a war then attributed their actions after the fact to what God ordered than it is that God actually ordered the genocide and capturing of those virgins.

In short, I did the exact opposite of what you are saying here. When I applied logic I was able to come up with a different scenario than "God ordered this" and one that is IMO far more logical. So far the only person who says it is logical to say, "Because the Bible says so." is you. And I have pointed out to you that this is a logical fallacy.

It's like a child who says that he knows more about injury because his mother is a Nurse.
Click to expand...
in a debate regarding religions that have a deity who desires to be worshipped you pretty much have to be selective.....something like 97% of the people on earth are either atheist/agnostic or follow the six major religions.....three of those don't have deities that even communicate with the universe....the Hind believe the entire universe is the deity, the Buddhists and Taoists believe that we become the deity.....the other three, Christianity, Islam and Judaism all worship the same deity, YHWH....the religious texts of all three say the same thing on this issue....

we've discussed a variety of logical reasons why a deity would demand worship....the fact that you don't accept any of them doesn't mean they aren't there.....and the fact you don't want to look at what the religious texts say on the issue does not make them illogical....

I think the simplest makes the most sense....because it is the easiest way to identify a group of people who want to love the deity because they want to love the deity.....not because they have no other choice, not because of fear, but simply because they want to....

when I look at your analogy, I see you in the role you attribute to me.....you block out what Mom says, denying she can even talk, and make your own decisions on the care needed....(that's why mom loves me best).....
 
Last edited:
PostmodernProphet said:
in a debate regarding religions that have a deity who desires to be worshipped you pretty much have to be selective.....something like 97% of the people on earth are either atheist/agnostic or follow the six major religions.....three of those don't have deities that even communicate with the universe....the Hind believe the entire universe is the deity, the Buddhists and Taoists believe that we become the deity.....the other three, Christianity, Islam and Judaism all worship the same deity, YHWH....the religious texts of all three say the same thing on this issue....

we've discussed a variety of logical reasons why a deity would demand worship....the fact that you don't accept any of them doesn't mean they aren't there.....and the fact you don't want to look at what the religious texts say on the issue does not make them illogical....

I think the simplest makes the most sense....because it is the easiest way to identify a group of people who want to love the deity because they want to love the deity.....not because they have no other choice, not because of fear, but simply because they want to....

when I look at your analogy, I see you in the role you attribute to me.....you block out what Mom says, denying she can even talk, and make your own decisions on the care needed....(that's why mom loves me best).....
Click to expand...
It isn't that I don't accept the reasons, I just don't accept that they are logical. I understand that god requests his daily affirmation, but I don't pretend that it is logical therefore.

Again, the net total of your argument is "Because He says so!"

Saying that is logical can only happen if you ignore the actual definition of logical.

And this totally ignores the "Prodigal Son" story of the Bible, your analogy even goes against what the danged Deity said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top