Oh, is that what you call parroting history written by the victors? How about "stomping" your way through the link in post #14.
Eisenhower's Holocaust.
- Thread starter chainbreak
- Start date
Oh, is that what you call parroting history written by the victors? How about "stomping" your way through the link in post #14.
Your sock accusation aside, what do you think the real story is.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Dear Fucktified, chainbreak was, indeed, a sock for cultsmasher.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
I did read it. James Bacque, the 'historian' cited throughout the article almost singularly, has been repeatedly proved wrong on almost everything he's written.
https://positionpapers.ie/2019/06/james-bacques-other-losses-a-deeply-flawed-book/
https://www.nizkor.org/bacque-1-bacque-james/
Even on this site Bacque has been refuted:
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8614
https://marcuse.faculty.history.ucsb.edu/classes/133c/133cproj/08proj/Bacque1997Coon08z.htm
So, while I took the time to read most of that tripe in the link in post #14, it was virtually a complete waste of my time.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
You are having a nice hallucination, bunky. You go from one documented liar to a discredited hack in the never ending circle jerk of Nazi apologist/revisionists. But reality and decent research will always be your undoing:
- The problem for Bacque is that he cannot read most of this massive and exciting new scholarship because he does not read German. He also does not read Russian. So the claims of his exhaustive research in the "KGB archives" (which to our knowledge are only restrictively open to researchers!) should be taken with a big grain of salt. Many stories have surfaced about Russian archives opening their holdings selectively to those who are willing to pay for it. Bacque's second volume, Crimes and Mercies, was first published in German by Ullstein in Berlin (a publishing house well aware of the popularity of revisionist scholarship among German veteran circles). A panel of scholars gathered at the annual German Studies Association meeting in Salt Lake City in October 1999 and found the charges of Crimes and Mercies even more extravagant and pig-headed than those proffered in Other Losses. Here Bacque was construing a vast conspiracy about many millions of German refugees perishing in Germany at the end of the war as a result of Allied neglect. The GSA papers were never published, however, since the business of refuting Bacque's claims again and again and in detail gives more credence to his wild conspiracy history. Trying to revive the debate now is yet another attempt by him to gain acceptability in the scholarly community.
- The mountain of evidence has been building that Bacque's charge of the "missing million" supposedly perishing in the American (and French) POW camps in Germany and France is based on completely faulty interpretation of statistical data. There was never any serious disagreement that the German POWs were treated badly by the U.S. Army and suffered egregiously in these camps in the first weeks after the end of the war. That the chaos of the war's end would also produce potentially mismatches and errors in record keeping should surprise no one either. But there was NO AMERICAN POLICY to starve them to death as Bacque asserts and NO COVER UP either after the war. No question about it, there were individual American camp guards who took revenge on German POWs based on their hatred of the Nazis.
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1266
saltydancin
Verified User
While it appears from many that the Holocaust never happened have to wonder why McHeil's Navy attacked a US Naval Hospital stealing & burning a US Constitution in 1971 as if it was a continuation of Nazi Germany's Kristallnacht which obviously was part of the Catholic Church bartering Jewish Holocaust deaths for Islam oil prior to Mengele "Angel of Death" baptize thine eyes by urinations concentration camp medical care that has been continued with those burning Bush's Arab "death to the infidels" health care plan Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate fiefdom of thieving National Archives purchased US Constitutions - old glories presented by Ike to Holocaust survivors for business excellence & Israel hand scribed old testaments arsonists. It's no wonder those crooks on Capital Hill in Nazington, Diatribe of Christiananality pedophilia under color of law malfeasance interpretation of "one nation under God with equal justice under law" tradition of thieving Eisenhower presented old glorys over decades has the same value in their "man is God" Peter Principle pyramid scheme as Islam fabricated human reproduction medical pseudoscience virgin Mary misnomer immaculate son of Allah Jesus the Christ conception to perpetuate Christian suicidal super ego sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming just as Russia's rootin' tootin' Putin fabricated Ukraine Nazis misnomer.
So, the truth is a waste of your time. Interesting. Luckily for you, dead men tell no tales. Maybe this one will interest you.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/rheinwiesenlager
There is much to reference here.
http://whale.to/b/starvation_of_germans.html
Or maybe this might interest you.
https://prepareforchange.net/2019/07/22/11-million-germans-were-murdered-after-wwii/
Like it or not, allied forces were no angels. Though for the winning side, the allies and the U.S. in particular, no effort was spared in making them appear to be angels. Would you expect different? Anybody who can fool people into believing that there was a jewish holocaust and fool them into believing anything.
He didn't read German? Neither can I. But there are programs out there that can translate any document into English. And he was far from the only one to speak of such things. That aside, there were many documents that were destroyed about what went on after the war. And like it or not, Eisenhower did indeed have many German prisoners classified as Disarmed Enemy Forces to get around any protections of them under the Geneva Convention Protections. In post #67 I posted some links. Check them out.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
All that almost entirely single sources back to Bacque. Repetition proves nothing.
You sure seem to have a bug up your ass when it comes to "Other Losses" by James Bacque. For all the trouble people apparently went through to try and prove him wrong, it almost certainly means that he was right. And from what I was reading, there were MANY other sources besides him.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Argumentum ad nauseam in the form of a gambler's fallacy. If there are "MANY other sources" so far you have failed to show any of them.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Possibly for Germany, but newsflash for ya, genius.....the info in question wasn't just checked out like a library....your boy did his research in Russia on the premises, and it's highly unlikely that they gifted him with a translator because he just asked.
And another eye opener for you; just because you've got a group of people who believe in something doesn't make it true. That is a common misconception in revisionism. As for your additional links, you could have saved yourself the trouble if you had read the following in my response, "...
- The mountain of evidence has been building that Bacque's charge of the "missing million" supposedly perishing in the American (and French) POW camps in Germany and France is based on completely faulty interpretation of statistical data. There was never any serious disagreement that the German POWs were treated badly by the U.S. Army and suffered egregiously in these camps in the first weeks after the end of the war. That the chaos of the war's end would also produce potentially mismatches and errors in record keeping should surprise no one either. But there was NO AMERICAN POLICY to starve them to death as Bacque asserts and NO COVER UP either after the war. No question about it, there were individual American camp guards who took revenge on German POWs based on their hatred of the Nazis."
My links plus Post#65 offers enough academic analysis to cast more than serious doubt as to Bacque's accuracy. You're entitled to your own beliefs, but not to your own facts.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
A fantastic display of convoluted logic on your part....if there are numerous people who present evidence that a person is wrong, then he must be right?
You do realize how stupid that is, right?
gemini104104
Verified User
You as a rancid troll and your bullshit site amounts to a turd compared to President Dwight D. Eisenhower's, legacy, and you want to know way? Well here are the reasons why versus your trolling gutter bs:
President Dwight D. Eisenhower as a lawfully elected POTUS:
Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower (born David Dwight Eisenhower; /ˈaɪzənhaʊ.ər/; October 14, 1890 – March 28, 1969) was an American military officer and statesman who served as the 34th president of the United States from 1953 to 1961. During World War II, he served as Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force in Europe, and achieved the five-star rank of General of the Army. He planned and supervised the invasion of North Africa in Operation Torch in 1942–1943 and the invasion of Normandy from the Western Front in 1944–1945.
Eisenhower was born into a large family of mostly Pennsylvania Dutch ancestry in Denison, Texas, and raised in Abilene, Kansas. His family had a strong religious background, and his mother became a Jehovah's Witness. Eisenhower, however, belonged to no organized church until 1952. He graduated from West Point in 1915 and later married Mamie Doud, with whom he had two sons. During World War I, he was denied a request to serve in Europe and instead commanded a unit that trained tank crews. Following the war, he served under various generals and was promoted to the rank of brigadier general in 1941. After the United States entered World War II, Eisenhower oversaw the invasions of North Africa and Sicily before supervising the invasions of France and Germany. After the war, he served as Army Chief of Staff (1945–1948), as president of Columbia University (1948–1953) and as the first Supreme Commander of NATO (1951–1952).
In 1952, Eisenhower entered the presidential race as a Republican to block the isolationist foreign policies of Senator Robert A. Taft, who opposed NATO and wanted no foreign entanglements. Eisenhower won that election and the 1956 election in landslides, both times defeating Adlai Stevenson II. Eisenhower's main goals in office were to contain the spread of communism and reduce federal deficits. In 1953, he considered using nuclear weapons to end the Korean War, and may have threatened China with nuclear attack if an armistice was not reached quickly. China did agree and an armistice resulted which remains in effect. His New Look policy of nuclear deterrence prioritized inexpensive nuclear weapons while reducing funding for expensive Army divisions. He continued Harry S. Truman's policy of recognizing Taiwan as the legitimate government of China, and he won congressional approval of the Formosa Resolution. His administration provided major aid to help the French fight off Vietnamese Communists in the First Indochina War. After the French left, he gave strong financial support to the new state of South Vietnam. He supported regime-changing military coups in Iran and Guatemala orchestrated by his own administration. During the Suez Crisis of 1956, he condemned the Israeli, British, and French invasion of Egypt, and he forced them to withdraw. He also condemned the Soviet invasion during the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 but took no action. After the Soviet Union launched Sputnik in 1957, Eisenhower authorized the establishment of NASA, which led to the Space Race. He deployed 15,000 soldiers during the 1958 Lebanon crisis. Near the end of his term, he failed to set up a summit meeting with the Soviets when a U.S. spy plane was shot down over the Soviet Union. He approved the Bay of Pigs Invasion, which was left to John F. Kennedy to carry out."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower
saltydancin
Verified User
Default
Quote Originally Posted by chainbreak View Post
I was having an interesting time in my thread, "The holocaust never happened. Deal with it." But being an apparently forbidden topic, it went away. And TA Gardner was getting ready to unleash a can of military history whoopass on me. That would have been funny. Sorry I missed it. But I have some real history for you all. I wonder how long it will last.]QUOTE
https://rense.com/general46/germ.htm
Obviously one of Byrd's KKK West Nazi Germany Virginia & the Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate fiefdoms's Chirstiananality pedophilia man is God diatribe where "Eisenhower is still a war criminal".
Quote Originally Posted by chainbreak View Post
I was having an interesting time in my thread, "The holocaust never happened. Deal with it." But being an apparently forbidden topic, it went away. And TA Gardner was getting ready to unleash a can of military history whoopass on me. That would have been funny. Sorry I missed it. But I have some real history for you all. I wonder how long it will last.]QUOTE
https://rense.com/general46/germ.htm
Obviously one of Byrd's KKK West Nazi Germany Virginia & the Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate fiefdoms's Chirstiananality pedophilia man is God diatribe where "Eisenhower is still a war criminal".
In one of the links I posted, there were tons of them.
The massed legions of people that the victors have to draw on to impose their version of history dwarf those who tell the true story. What other crap you have for me. That the Nazis did a holocaust of the jews?
Eisenhower was a today who worked for General MacArthur. There were better generals to have given the command of the European theater of war to. But his ability to kiss ass got him the position.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
And, most of that traces back to Bacque. There are some on the list, like McDonogh's After the Reich: The Brutal History of Allied Occupation that use Bacque in part, and then go far afield from anything Eisenhower did like McDonogh's claims about Sudeten Germans being mistreated by the Czech government. That has nothing to do with Eisenhower.
The absurdity of Bacque's claim of somewhere around a million German POW's dying in Western Allied captivity is utterly absurd. The number captured prior to the German surrender was about 2.8 million. Roughly another 5 million were taken into custody post surrender meaning that by Bacque's numbers somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 in 8 died in captivity. The mass graves necessary to handle the bodies don't exist. The US / Western Allies didn't run crematoria so that isn't where they went.
So, where did all these dead German soldiers end up?
Even a cursory examination of Bacque's claims show how obviously and absurdly wrong he is. To claim that those who did die, and were placed in camps were intentionally and badly mistreated is also clearly a lie. The Western Allies were trying to handle mass surrenders of me in tens to hundreds of thousands once the war ended. Even with the war coming to an end but still going, mass surrenders were problematic. There certainly was no plan to starve these men to death, or leave them exposed to the weather (however mild it might be given it was summer). Certainly the US did try to improve camp conditions as quickly as their resources allowed.
Were there individual cases of brutality by Western Allied soldiers? Absolutely. But it was neither policy nor practice of the armies as a whole.