Eisenhower's Holocaust.

[fortify]

And, most of that traces back to Bacque. There are some on the list, like McDonogh's After the Reich: The Brutal History of Allied Occupation that use Bacque in part, and then go far afield from anything Eisenhower did like McDonogh's claims about Sudeten Germans being mistreated by the Czech government. That has nothing to do with Eisenhower.

The absurdity of Bacque's claim of somewhere around a million German POW's dying in Western Allied captivity is utterly absurd. The number captured prior to the German surrender was about 2.8 million. Roughly another 5 million were taken into custody post surrender meaning that by Bacque's numbers somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 in 8 died in captivity. The mass graves necessary to handle the bodies don't exist. The US / Western Allies didn't run crematoria so that isn't where they went.

So, where did all these dead German soldiers end up?

Even a cursory examination of Bacque's claims show how obviously and absurdly wrong he is. To claim that those who did die, and were placed in camps were intentionally and badly mistreated is also clearly a lie. The Western Allies were trying to handle mass surrenders of me in tens to hundreds of thousands once the war ended. Even with the war coming to an end but still going, mass surrenders were problematic. There certainly was no plan to starve these men to death, or leave them exposed to the weather (however mild it might be given it was summer). Certainly the US did try to improve camp conditions as quickly as their resources allowed.

Were there individual cases of brutality by Western Allied soldiers? Absolutely. But it was neither policy nor practice of the armies as a whole.

Ok, you don't like Bacque. So let's leave him out of it. I glanced over what some of the other people had to say. One of them said that the allies confiscated the land on which any mass graves may have been. And they don't allow digging there. I have another website for you to dismiss. Though part of it does mention Bacque.

https://prepareforchange.net/2019/07/22/11-million-germans-were-murdered-after-wwii/

Lastly, you say that what happened wasn't policy or practiced. That was Eisenhower's whole reason for having those taken prisoner after the war labeled as Disarmed Enemy Forces.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Boy, have you drank the Kool-Aid.
http://whale.to/b/starvation_of_germans.html

You have got to be one of the dumbest white supremacist/neo-nazi bullhorn I've come across to date.

Dear readers, note in the chronology of the posts how I and others have systematically deconstructed the OP, and Fortify's subsequent quest to deem any scholarly examination that finds his hero's work severely flawed and erroneous as "fake news".

But undaunted, our pointy hood wearing friend merely runs to a collection of myopic excerpts of historical data that has been skewed by an author with a similar mindset. Just checkout these article on the author, and you'll get my point.

Eustace Mullins

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/09/into-the-psyche-of-eustace-mullins/63457/

https://www.adl.org/news/article/eustace-mullins-anti-semitic-conspiracy-theorist-dies-at-age-86


For Fortify, as with all 3rd rate racist propagandist, they just regurgitate the SOS in various was by various like minded cretins....then they ignore any and every fact that comes from basic analysis that proves them wrong. Pathetic, but not unexpected.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
A fantastic display of convoluted logic on your part....if there are numerous people who present evidence that a person is wrong, then he must be right?

You do realize how stupid that is, right?

The massed legions of people that the victors have to draw on to impose their version of history dwarf those who tell the true story. What other crap you have for me. That the Nazis did a holocaust of the jews?

Aww, what's the matter toodles? Pissed that the Nazi's LOST THE WAR? That all their lies were exposed by the Allied victors? Obviously you don't realize how stupid you came off in the last exchange.

Go cry in your beer at your next cross burning.

you're just another 3rd rate racist clown humping for a forum to regurgitate the SOS you David Duke wanna be's have been doing for years. Last I heard of old Davey, he was whoring his rhetoric with the black and tan folk in the Middle East who have it in for Israel. Man, talk about irony.

You got your ass handed to you....denying it or trying to change the subject just makes you look more ridiculous. Now run-a-long and peddle the next Nazi/kkk BS. We'll just rip you another one (a guilty pleasure of mine, as I was taught not to make fun of the mentally infirm). Carry on.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Whatever Eisenhower was, of which there is some debate, without a doubt he was a mass murderer. Those death camps for German soldiers after the war did exist.

Damn, don't get my hopes up, Nazi boy!!

 

[Minister of Truth]

The first thing that should have happened after VE Day was the rounding up of all Sudeten Krauts.

 

[AProudLefty]

Be careful there. I am a published military historian. My specialty is technology and such but I can hold my own on most other topics, while you link an uncredited, unsourced webpage as proof of what?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

So, are you on Fortify's side in this thread?

 

[AProudLefty]

So, are you on Fortify's side in this thread?

This is his thread? Anyway I was laughing at your LARPing.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Ok, you don't like Bacque. So let's leave him out of it. I glanced over what some of the other people had to say. One of them said that the allies confiscated the land on which any mass graves may have been. And they don't allow digging there. I have another website for you to dismiss. Though part of it does mention Bacque.

https://prepareforchange.net/2019/07/22/11-million-germans-were-murdered-after-wwii/

Lastly, you say that what happened wasn't policy or practiced. That was Eisenhower's whole reason for having those taken prisoner after the war labeled as Disarmed Enemy Forces.

Didn't vet your site did you?

For more information on this topic see books by the following authors:

James Bacque (Other Losses) (Crimes and Mercies),
Alfred M. de Zayas (Die Wehrmacht-Untersuch ungstelle) and (The Nemisis of Potsdam),
Guido Knopp (Die Gefangenen),
Erich Kern and Karl Balzer (Allierte Verbrechen and Deutschen).

The exact same names pop up again. They are the same ones who all along are making these claims and who have been thoroughly debunked as a bunch of conspiracy theorists.

Then there's this:

The book “Gruesome Harvest: The Allied Attempt to Exterminate Germany after 1945,” should be on the mandatory highschool and college reading list for history and sociology.

It is one of the few books that are available in English that address the murder of millions of non-combatant German civilians and German prisoners of war from 1944 to 1950 as a matter of deliberate allied policy...

I bolded that, because it is belied by that thing called The Marshall Plan started in June 1947 and fully funded to the tune of $13 billion (about $120 billion today) by April 1948. If as Ralph F. Keeling, the author cited, claims how does this reconcile with some American / British plan to exterminate Germans?

But then, when I go and look up that particular book (Gruesome Harvest: The Allied Attempt to Exterminate Germany after 1945) I find it was published in 1947 and most of the claims of brutality and such aren't targeted at the Western Allies, but instead at the Russians / Soviets / Communists. For example, Keeling shows that about 680,000 German POW's at the end of the war were force marched to Russia where they were used for years as slave labor. That the Soviets demanded the Western Allies turn over any POW's that had escaped from the Soviet portion of Germany west and that to one degree or another, the Western Allies complied with this demand.

That's hardly "murder" on their part. Their erstwhile ally was making a request that prisoners--which the West had too many off to handle in any case--be returned to them because they'd escaped from their zone of control.

On the other hand, Keeling mischaracterizes US and British use of POWs as laborers-- In the US case, they were paid 80 cents a day to work just as POW's in the US were--and work for officers was voluntary per the Geneva Convention. For the enlisted, working was a way to get out of the monotony of the camps and make some money. Most POW's were more than willing to work under US supervision.

http://www.renegadetribune.com/review-gruesome-harvest-allied-attempt-exterminate-germany-1945/

On the whole, Keeling is just another revisionist playing loose and fast with his facts, like Bacque did.

https://wearswarts.wordpress.com/20...-or-germany-had-it-bad-between-1945-and-1948/

It appears that the Institute of American Economics was simply a small group of men headed by Keeling himself. It was not a recognised academic group as such and had close ties to antisemitism, isolationism and Nazism.

As I started off, Keeling ignores the institution of the Marshall Plan entirely in his book.

The idea that 11 million Germans were "murdered" post war is absurd. The whole of the German army in 1945 was just 9.7 million men while the entire population of the country was about 70 million. Systematically eradicating 1 in 7 persons in Germany--more than died in the Holocaust--is something that couldn't have been covered up. Bacque, Keeling, et al., are nothing more than conspiracy theorists.

 

[fortify]

You have got to be one of the dumbest white supremacist/neo-nazi bullhorn I've come across to date.

Dear readers, note in the chronology of the posts how I and others have systematically deconstructed the OP, and Fortify's subsequent quest to deem any scholarly examination that finds his hero's work severely flawed and erroneous as "fake news".

But undaunted, our pointy hood wearing friend merely runs to a collection of myopic excerpts of historical data that has been skewed by an author with a similar mindset. Just checkout these article on the author, and you'll get my point.

Eustace Mullins

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/09/into-the-psyche-of-eustace-mullins/63457/

https://www.adl.org/news/article/eustace-mullins-anti-semitic-conspiracy-theorist-dies-at-age-86


For Fortify, as with all 3rd rate racist propagandist, they just regurgitate the SOS in various was by various like minded cretins....then they ignore any and every fact that comes from basic analysis that proves them wrong. Pathetic, but not unexpected.

Just what a jew would say. I wonder how many idiot sheeple you can get to follow you. What's next. You going to tell me the holocaust was real?

 

[fortify]

Aww, what's the matter toodles? Pissed that the Nazi's LOST THE WAR? That all their lies were exposed by the Allied victors? Obviously you don't realize how stupid you came off in the last exchange.

Go cry in your beer at your next cross burning.

you're just another 3rd rate racist clown humping for a forum to regurgitate the SOS you David Duke wanna be's have been doing for years. Last I heard of old Davey, he was whoring his rhetoric with the black and tan folk in the Middle East who have it in for Israel. Man, talk about irony.

You got your ass handed to you....denying it or trying to change the subject just makes you look more ridiculous. Now run-a-long and peddle the next Nazi/kkk BS. We'll just rip you another one (a guilty pleasure of mine, as I was taught not to make fun of the mentally infirm). Carry on.

What, more bullshit? What's next. You going to tell me there was a lampshade made out of jew skin? Or that some jews were turned into soap? Or maybe you would like to tell me the story of Ann Frank wasn't fiction. Or that Schindler's list wasn't a work of fiction too. Just how stupid are you.

 

[fortify]

Didn't vet your site did you?



The exact same names pop up again. They are the same ones who all along are making these claims and who have been thoroughly debunked as a bunch of conspiracy theorists.

Then there's this:



I bolded that, because it is belied by that thing called The Marshall Plan started in June 1947 and fully funded to the tune of $13 billion (about $120 billion today) by April 1948. If as Ralph F. Keeling, the author cited, claims how does this reconcile with some American / British plan to exterminate Germans?

But then, when I go and look up that particular book (Gruesome Harvest: The Allied Attempt to Exterminate Germany after 1945) I find it was published in 1947 and most of the claims of brutality and such aren't targeted at the Western Allies, but instead at the Russians / Soviets / Communists. For example, Keeling shows that about 680,000 German POW's at the end of the war were force marched to Russia where they were used for years as slave labor. That the Soviets demanded the Western Allies turn over any POW's that had escaped from the Soviet portion of Germany west and that to one degree or another, the Western Allies complied with this demand.

That's hardly "murder" on their part. Their erstwhile ally was making a request that prisoners--which the West had too many off to handle in any case--be returned to them because they'd escaped from their zone of control.

On the other hand, Keeling mischaracterizes US and British use of POWs as laborers-- In the US case, they were paid 80 cents a day to work just as POW's in the US were--and work for officers was voluntary per the Geneva Convention. For the enlisted, working was a way to get out of the monotony of the camps and make some money. Most POW's were more than willing to work under US supervision.

http://www.renegadetribune.com/review-gruesome-harvest-allied-attempt-exterminate-germany-1945/

On the whole, Keeling is just another revisionist playing loose and fast with his facts, like Bacque did.

https://wearswarts.wordpress.com/20...-or-germany-had-it-bad-between-1945-and-1948/



As I started off, Keeling ignores the institution of the Marshall Plan entirely in his book.

The idea that 11 million Germans were "murdered" post war is absurd. The whole of the German army in 1945 was just 9.7 million men while the entire population of the country was about 70 million. Systematically eradicating 1 in 7 persons in Germany--more than died in the Holocaust--is something that couldn't have been covered up. Bacque, Keeling, et al., are nothing more than conspiracy theorists.

Your sticking up for history as presented by the victors is pathetic. Like it or not, the Rhienwiesenlager camps did exist. German soldier were thrown into brutal imprisonment just for having been German soldiers. I think the reason why is because dead men tell no tales. WE were on the wrong side. (History has PROVED that point) The Allied forces had to kill anybody who may have said otherwise. Or at least kill enough of them to make the rest fear for their lives. The Russians were pretty bad. But as I said, the other allied forces weren't much better. Also, this picture has an interesting story to tell.



The Cossack forces were lead by Helmuth von Pannwitz. He didn't need to be taken prisoner with the other forces. But he decided to go with them. From what I read elsewhere, he said, "I was with them in the good times. I will be with them in the bad times." For this act of loyalty, he has been dubbed as the Last knight of Europe. Needless to say, the Russians executed him.

Also, did you see this website?

https://allthatsinteresting.com/rheinwiesenlager

In the article starts out with speaking about how every schoolchild knows that the Germans falsely imprisoned millions of noncombatants in concentration camps. And that conditions in those camps were inhumane. To say the least. But I a can guarantee you that story is complete bullshit. I bet you agree with them on that point. But somehow you refuse to believe that German soldiers after the surrender of Germany were in fact treated terribly.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You obviously don't know the history of the German Cossack Cavalry division other than their betrayal by the British. The unit started out in the Heer as an anti-partisan one. It grew in size to a division, having 6 'regiments' (really more like strong battalions) each comprised of a specific Cossack clan. von Pannwitz was an Olympic grade horseman, and his riding skills gained the admiration of the Cossacks. Many of the other officers were excellent German cavalrymen too. All were in the Heer when they joined the unit.

In October 1944, the division was taken over by the SS as part of Himmler's takeover of the replacement army and most anti-partisan operations. This division was formally assigned to the SS at that time. In order to make the unit look more impressive on paper, the division was split (3 regiments each) into the 1st and 2nd SS Cossack Divisions and assigned to the XV SS Cavalry corps. The "corps" really was never that, simply a weak cavalry division that continued anti-partisan duties in the Balkans as it had been doing.

The best, and most honest account of this unit is found in:

The Cavalry of World War II by Janusz Piekalkiewicz

At the end of the war, the division moved north into Austria then into Germany surrendering to the British who assured the leadership they'd be treated fairly. The unit got to keep their horses and the large group of camp followers (wives and children) that the unit had with them. They were camped in a large meadow area in N. Germany and mostly allowed to police themselves by the British. The Soviets insisted the unit be turned over to them on the grounds that:

1. It was an SS unit that fought on the East Front (marginally true at best)
2. That it was in the Soviet sector when the war ended (debatable but probably true)

The British high command, not knowing the situation on the ground, agreed to turn the Cossacks and their German officers to the Soviets. So, the unit was marched off into the gulag as many ex-German units captured by the Soviets were.

That is hardly murder. Nor is it some planned execution of soldiers by the British. At the time, the British, and Americans were almost totally unaware of what would happen to these units when they were handed over.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Your sticking up for history as presented by the victors is pathetic. Like it or not, the Rhienwiesenlager camps did exist. German soldier were thrown into brutal imprisonment just for having been German soldiers. I think the reason why is because dead men tell no tales. WE were on the wrong side. (History has PROVED that point) The Allied forces had to kill anybody who may have said otherwise. Or at least kill enough of them to make the rest fear for their lives. The Russians were pretty bad. But as I said, the other allied forces weren't much better. Also, this picture has an interesting story to tell.

View attachment 22530

The Cossack forces were lead by Helmuth von Pannwitz. He didn't need to be taken prisoner with the other forces. But he decided to go with them. From what I read elsewhere, he said, "I was with them in the good times. I will be with them in the bad times." For this act of loyalty, he has been dubbed as the Last knight of Europe. Needless to say, the Russians executed him.

Also, did you see this website?

https://allthatsinteresting.com/rheinwiesenlager

In the article starts out with speaking about how every schoolchild knows that the Germans falsely imprisoned millions of noncombatants in concentration camps. And that conditions in those camps were inhumane. To say the least. But I a can guarantee you that story is complete bullshit. I bet you agree with them on that point. But somehow you refuse to believe that German soldiers after the surrender of Germany were in fact treated terribly.

From the site you linked (page 2)

Almost uniquely for WWII powers, the American Army took these rules seriously and even, at one POW camp, made its own guards sleep in bedrolls on the ground for the three days it took to build prisoner barracks, though their cabins were already finished.

This American reputation for fairness drew millions of defeated Germans to the Western Front in the first place, and probably shortened the war somewhat as the fighting men chose captivity over suicide in battle.

Then comes the inevitable conspiracy theory:

There is only one reason to strip prisoners of war of the legal status that protects them from mistreatment: to mistreat them. According to a 1989 book on the subject, Other Losses, by Canadian writer James Bacque, at least 800,000, and “quite likely over a million” prisoners lost their lives in American-operated Rheinwiesenlager camps during the summer and fall of 1945.

(page 3)

So, we're back to the same single-source on this again. The site is crap.

 

[christiefan915]

Cultsmasher has been banned before but, like most psychos, is compelled to return under various guises. He wasn't banned for being a Holocaust denier - he was banned for violating his permban. Get a fucking clue, Fucktify, before you end up locked out like him. Stop being a disappointment to your family.

10-28-2021
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?178480-chainbreak&p=4749132#post4749132

I think "fortify" is just another incarnation of Cultsmasher. I guess we'll see.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Aww, what's the matter toodles? Pissed that the Nazi's LOST THE WAR? That all their lies were exposed by the Allied victors? Obviously you don't realize how stupid you came off in the last exchange.

Go cry in your beer at your next cross burning.

you're just another 3rd rate racist clown humping for a forum to regurgitate the SOS you David Duke wanna be's have been doing for years. Last I heard of old Davey, he was whoring his rhetoric with the black and tan folk in the Middle East who have it in for Israel. Man, talk about irony.

You got your ass handed to you....denying it or trying to change the subject just makes you look more ridiculous. Now run-a-long and peddle the next Nazi/kkk BS. We'll just rip you another one (a guilty pleasure of mine, as I was taught not to make fun of the mentally infirm). Carry on.

What, more bullshit? What's next. You going to tell me there was a lampshade made out of jew skin? Or that some jews were turned into soap? Or maybe you would like to tell me the story of Ann Frank wasn't fiction. Or that Schindler's list wasn't a work of fiction too. Just how stupid are you.

As the reader can see, once these 3rd rate Goebbels wanna-be's are humiliated with facts and logic, they just devolve into slack jawed, howling banshees of every racists and revisionist buzz words and phrases they can think off to change or redirect the discussion. Pity the chronology of the posts will always be these dimwits undoing.

He's finished, and will just blather on with the usual propaganda like a good little David Duke parrot. I leave him to it.

Adios, chump.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think "fortify" is just another incarnation of Cultsmasher. I guess we'll see.

Lonely, limp-diked elderly incels need fun too which is why Cultsmasher keeps coming back. It's his "life's work" to post stupid shit on the Internet.

IMHO, this goes back to a fear of dying. He's fearful of dying and not being remembered so he spreads his hate on JPP to leave a mark of remembrance....like a turd stain on the sidewalk.