EV's now more expensive in time and money to refuel than ICE vehicles

RB 60 said:
Will EV battery technology be safe for driver/passenger and first responders in case of a serious accident? There's always a trade off.
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Lithium is a metal that burns at insane temperatures. LI batteries were avoided for decades because they would burst into flames if overcharged or discharged too quickly. Adding microprocessors to regulate charge and discharge has solved this issue, but in the case of a breach in an accident, an LI battery is extremely dangerous. You can't put them out with water. They need to be smothered.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
Well, that's the rub, isn't it? There is no revolution in battery technology.
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Hmmm, given that Li ion batteries are, themselves, relatively new and somewhat revolutionary as opposed to Pb acid batteries and there's a ton of research ongoing resulting in different types of batteries like safer Li cells and even Na ion batteries I think a revolution is possible.
 
floridafan said:
SucH, BS. Batteries are guaranteed by the manufacturers for a mini mum of 10 year, and now you can charge your car for a flat fee of $30.00 monthly.
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Such BS.

My Ionic has a PRORATED warranty on the batteries. WHEN they fail at about the 7 year mark, I will get a 30% discount at replacing them. Nothing more.

As for subsidized charging - that will vanish once alternatives to EV's are eliminated.

I have solar, and SCE still came and put a nice 240 charging port in for me - ran it all the way back to the breaker. California taxpayers paid for it.

That too will stop once EV's become common. I get to drive on the 241 toll road at half-price, it was free when I bought the car, but already the state is rolling back subsidies. From Yorba Linda to Irvine, it's about $10 each way, so my fellow drivers give me $50 a week.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
Hmmm, given that Li ion batteries are, themselves, relatively new and somewhat revolutionary as opposed to Pb acid batteries and there's a ton of research ongoing resulting in different types of batteries like safer Li cells and even Na ion batteries I think a revolution is possible.
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60 years may be "relatively new" in human history - but is nowhere near "new."

Microprocessors have made them safer - I'd even say safe - but they are nothing new.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
Such BS.

My Ionic has a PRORATED warranty on the batteries. WHEN they fail at about the 7 year mark, I will get a 30% discount at replacing them. Nothing more.

As for subsidized charging - that will vanish once alternatives to EV's are eliminated.

I have solar, and SCE still came and put a nice 240 charging port in for me - ran it all the way back to the breaker. California taxpayers paid for it.

That too will stop once EV's become common. I get to drive on the 241 toll road at half-price, it was free when I bought the car, but already the state is rolling back subsidies. From Yorba Linda to Irvine, it's about $10 each way, so my fellow drivers give me $50 a week.
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You are a first rate pathetic liar.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
60 years may be "relatively new" in human history - but is nowhere near "new."

Microprocessors have made them safer - I'd even say safe - but they are nothing new.
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You still seem to be of the impression that new technology is not being developed. It most assuredly is. It is not easy but it is being worked on.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
Such BS.

My Ionic has a PRORATED warranty on the batteries. WHEN they fail at about the 7 year mark, I will get a 30% discount at replacing them. Nothing more.

As for subsidized charging - that will vanish once alternatives to EV's are eliminated.

I have solar, and SCE still came and put a nice 240 charging port in for me - ran it all the way back to the breaker. California taxpayers paid for it.

That too will stop once EV's become common. I get to drive on the 241 toll road at half-price, it was free when I bought the car, but already the state is rolling back subsidies. From Yorba Linda to Irvine, it's about $10 each way, so my fellow drivers give me $50 a week.
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The Hybrid/Electric Limited Battery Warranty covers defects in the factory workmanship or materials of the vehicle's lithium ion battery for 10 years from the date of original retail delivery or date of first use, or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first.
 
EVs batteries do not fail at 100K. Real world examples show they last a lot longer than that. The new batteries will be even better in all aspects.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
You still seem to be of the impression that new technology is not being developed. It most assuredly is. It is not easy but it is being worked on.
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I wish new technology WERE being developed. But there is nothing on the horizon.

EV's are stupid.

The best option is fuel cells. EV's are destroying what is a sensible and rational move from ICE's. All because corrupt politicians have found a way to embezzle public funds.
 
floridafan said:
The Hybrid/Electric Limited Battery Warranty covers defects in the factory workmanship or materials of the vehicle's lithium ion battery for 10 years from the date of original retail delivery or date of first use, or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first.
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And?

Normal wear is not a defect.

The battery is pro-rated for replacement cost. If it fails in the first week, the entire cost of replacement will be covered. After 7 years, 30% will be covered - the other expected 30% life.

And I'll hit 100,000 miles long before 7 years, I'm damn near there already. When they go, they aren't worth replacing.

The ONLY thing that makes an EV practical is that taxpayers shoulder most of the costs. In 2017 there were massive rebates - which don't exist now. At $45,000 for the Ioniq 5 - I wouldn't buy one today. Throw the $20K rebate in - and I would. But that just means taxpayers are paying half the cost.
 
Nordberg said:
EVs batteries do not fail at 100K. Real world examples show they last a lot longer than that. The new batteries will be even better in all aspects.
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They fail at about 7 years - pretty consistently.

I'll have to pull my warranty - I don't recall anything about miles on the batteries - I think it was 10 years. Even so, I know for a fact it's pro-rated.
 
Nordberg said:
EVs batteries do not fail at 100K. Real world examples show they last a lot longer than that. The new batteries will be even better in all aspects.
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They fail at about 7 years - pretty consistently.

I'll have to pull my warranty - I don't recall anything about miles on the batteries - I think it was 10 years. Even so, I know for a fact it's pro-rated.
 
gfm7175 said:
Yup, what was once the "Emerald City" is now a war zone. :(
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Heh. The reason it got the nickname 'Emerald City' is rather hilarious!

I-5 passes right through Seattle, a N-S freeway.
A truck carrying yellow traffic paint was traveling southbound on I-5 heading toward Seattle. Unfortunately, his valve failed and he left a wide streak of yellow paint on I-5 all the way to Seattle (he didn't notice the leak!). People dubbed I-5 the Yellow Brick Road leading to Oz, the Emerald City, and the name just stuck.
 
floridafan said:
You can purchase an EV today from several companies for less than $30,000, and we now have cheaper electric costs thanks to Tesla.
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Meh. I can purchase a new gasoline car from several companies for less than $17,000.
I can purchase a good solid used gasoline car for even less. Heck, my used full sized truck cost less than $30,000!

And I don't have to wait a long time to refuel them.
And anyone can repair or maintain them, using reasonably common tools, at their own home.
That truck can haul my tractor and a full load of rock around, your weenie EV can't.
I don't need to add special circuitry to my garage to charge my car.
I can refuel my car from anywhere, even with remote locations, using a gas can. You can't do THAT with your EV!
My car will run for a very long time. Even cars build in the 40's are still running today. The EV can't do that.

The current selling price of the Tesla Model 3 is $43,000.

You're a liar, dude.
Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs.
 
Nordberg said:
Why do you type things like that? Evs are available at low prices. The Bolt is under 28K. There are some coming out cheaper than that.
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The Bolt is a piece of shit. A brand new gasoline powered piece of shit can be had for $15,000.
Special pleading is a fallacy, dude.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Bet that drops to 15% in the next few years... EV's are neither popular nor desirable. People don't generally want one and the only way to get them to buy one is through bribes and coercion. The second government stops offering subsidies and eliminating alternatives by fiat it is the second people dump EV's and go back to ICE vehicles.
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Currently, less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. To get to even 15% means effectively no gasoline car sales for the next few years. He's making shit up.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
The cost of running an EV is often hidden. California HEAVILY subsidizes EV charging to hide what it actually costs to run one. Once there is critical mass, the state will remove the subsidies and drivers will be hit with massive expenses. Not to mention the cost of replacing batteries every 7 years.
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It's worse than that. The SDTC has been dismantling their power generating capacity. Their last nuclear plant will be shut down later this year. At 2035, EVs will be required. The electrical infrastructure is already heavily strained. They already import almost all their power from the WRIC now. Those power lines simply cannot handle the additional load. They are straining at their limit already, particularly in the summer months with all those air conditioners running.

If necessary, the WRIC will isolate and shut off power to the SDTC completely to save the rest of the WRIC. The WRIC serves Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, the SDTC, and two provinces in Canada.

The SDTC is moving entirely to solar and wind piddle power...effectively no power generating capacity at all.

This isn't about costs of energy for the SDTC...it's about BLACKOUTS (not rolling blackouts!) in the SDTC. They simply cannot charge their EVs anywhere, and they don't have enough charge to flee the devastation. Transportation of goods, materials, and people will come to a grinding halt.
No air conditioners. No EV charging. No airports (they require electric power). No rail service (it requires electric power). No trucks. No ships (ports require electric power).

This is their future unless their plans change.
 
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