Excuse me, are we going to say the pledge of allegiance?

[Cancel 2016.2]

And that's why you are a socheaded liberal. I'm glad you people have finally become more open and honest with others about how much you hate America. It was really getting frustrating to listen to you hate in one breath, and profess your love in another. I know you guys feel better not having to live the lie anymore, don't you?

Ditzie... you are rather warped on this topic. Not saying the pledge or singing the anthem does not equate to 'hating America'. That is absurd. IT IS NATIONALISM. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying the pledge or singing the anthem, nor do I think a certain degree of nationalism is bad, but not saying them doesn't mean 'you hate America'.

Soc has served this country. Sworn to uphold the Constitution. Both of which are far greater showings of devotion to this country than simply reciting a pledge to the FLAG or singing the anthem.

 

[Onceler]

It is funny to watch as many on the left mock the nationalism of the pledge. Those very same people will sit here day after day ranting about 'out-sourcing jobs'.

In related news, apples taste different from oranges, and are crunchier in general....

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Ditzie... you are rather warped on this topic. Not saying the pledge or singing the anthem does not equate to 'hating America'. That is absurd. IT IS NATIONALISM. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying the pledge or singing the anthem, nor do I think a certain degree of nationalism is bad, but not saying them doesn't mean 'you hate America'.

Soc has served this country. Sworn to uphold the Constitution. Both of which are far greater showings of devotion to this country than simply reciting a pledge to the FLAG or singing the anthem.

The sentiments being displayed in this thread, are indicative of people who do not like America, I am sorry if you don't see it that way. Saying the pledge, is patriotic, not nationalist. If you think otherwise, you are completely ignorant of what nationalism is. I don't care that some anonymous liberal on a message board, claims to have "served his country" because I have no way to confirm or deny that, and given the fact that most liberals are habitual liars, I can't accept anything they say at face value... again, if you wish to do so, that is up to you. I only go by what I see, and what I see here, is disdain for America and what America stands for, which is typical of the liberal left in America. I am just glad they finally are being honest about it.

 

[Onceler]

The sentiments being displayed in this thread, are indicative of people who do not like America, I am sorry if you don't see it that way. Saying the pledge, is patriotic, not nationalist. If you think otherwise, you are completely ignorant of what nationalism is. I don't care that some anonymous liberal on a message board, claims to have "served his country" because I have no way to confirm or deny that, and given the fact that most liberals are habitual liars, I can't accept anything they say at face value... again, if you wish to do so, that is up to you. I only go by what I see, and what I see here, is disdain for America and what America stands for, which is typical of the liberal left in America. I am just glad they finally are being honest about it.

Your patriotism depends 100% on who is President. You have said some of the most anti-American things I have seen on this board. It's laughable that you think something as basic as saying the pledge is how people show their patriotism.

You're probably one of those who favored amending the Consitution to prevent flag-burning; it's all symbolism to you, and not real feeling.

 

[midcan5]

The sentiments being displayed in this thread, are indicative of people who do not like America, I am sorry if you don't see it that way. Saying the pledge, is patriotic, not nationalist. If you think otherwise, you are completely ignorant of what nationalism is. I don't care that some anonymous liberal on a message board, claims to have "served his country" because I have no way to confirm or deny that, and given the fact that most liberals are habitual liars, I can't accept anything they say at face value... again, if you wish to do so, that is up to you. I only go by what I see, and what I see here, is disdain for America and what America stands for, which is typical of the liberal left in America. I am just glad they finally are being honest about it.

The Dixie debate formula, absolutely perfectly done.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

In related news, apples taste different from oranges, and are crunchier in general....

I can see why you would like to think they are different. But they are not.

Ask a Dem if they are in favor of helping the poorest find good paying jobs that will help them rise out of poverty. They of course will be all for it... right up until you cross the border with that job.

That too is nationalism.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The sentiments being displayed in this thread, are indicative of people who do not like America, I am sorry if you don't see it that way. Saying the pledge, is patriotic, not nationalist. If you think otherwise, you are completely ignorant of what nationalism is. I don't care that some anonymous liberal on a message board, claims to have "served his country" because I have no way to confirm or deny that, and given the fact that most liberals are habitual liars, I can't accept anything they say at face value... again, if you wish to do so, that is up to you. I only go by what I see, and what I see here, is disdain for America and what America stands for, which is typical of the liberal left in America. I am just glad they finally are being honest about it.

No, saying the pledge is BOTH patriotic AND nationalistic. If you don't understand that then you have no grasp on what the term nationalistic means.

Also, not saying it doesn't make you unpatriotic. Just as not serving in the military doesn't make you unpatriotic.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

No, saying the pledge is BOTH patriotic AND nationalistic. If you don't understand that then you have no grasp on what the term nationalistic means.

Also, not saying it doesn't make you unpatriotic. Just as not serving in the military doesn't make you unpatriotic.

No, Nationalism is a political mechanism used by Hitler and others, to strengthen public support for racist policy. It has nothing to do with patriotism, and you are sorely mistaken on this. I can see where you would be confused, simple-minded people are often confused by things with nuanced differences.

Not saying the pledge, does indeed make you unpatriotic, just as refusing to serve when you are called upon to serve, also makes you unpatriotic.

 

[Cancel7]

First off the guy that wrote the pledge didn't include "under god" in the pledge. I don't care if people do say it, and I will stand while they do, or when they sing the anthem, but I don't talk or sing or pledge to a piece of cloth. If you wanna change it and have us recite an oath to the constitution I will do every time. I have said that oath as a soldier and when I was sworn in as an attorney. It is an oath that I am proud to recite. We Americans have a wierd view of the flag. Our founders did not have this view of the flag. It was a way to identify us, mostly in battle.

The anthem I enjoy - when it's done well it's very beautiful. I stand for that.

I just don't do pledges. Silly stuff. IMO.

 

[Cancel7]

I can see why you would like to think they are different. But they are not.

Ask a Dem if they are in favor of helping the poorest find good paying jobs that will help them rise out of poverty. They of course will be all for it... right up until you cross the border with that job.

That too is nationalism.

What bunch of horseshite!

Right, outsourcing jobs and forcing the American middle class into a wage war they can't win with third-world nations is nationalism.

Maybe you'd like us all to stand every morning and take a pledge of allegiance to a corporation SF.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United Republicancorp.

 

[Cancel7]

No, Nationalism is a political mechanism used by Hitler and others, to strengthen public support for racist policy. It has nothing to do with patriotism, and you are sorely mistaken on this. I can see where you would be confused, simple-minded people are often confused by things with nuanced differences.

Not saying the pledge, does indeed make you unpatriotic, just as refusing to serve when you are called upon to serve, also makes you unpatriotic.

Who cares?

 

[Damocles]

Saying the Pledge for me is more respect for fellows than worry about my devotion to the "Fatherland" or anything else. Just like I stand for the National Anthem at sporting events, not because my devotion only counts when I stand, but for respect for the people who make up the nation, including those who don't stand.

Getting angry because people in a crowd wanted to show respect for others seems a bit weak. While I probably wouldn't have suggested the pledge be said, if I were doing the debate and somebody suggested it I'd say something like, "Sure, why not?" rather than try to explain why I'm going to tell you "no"...

It seems like such a small thing, it doesn't take more than a minute tops, and it wouldn't have taken anything away from the debate.

 

[Cancel7]

Saying the Pledge for me is more respect for fellows than worry about my devotion to the "Fatherland" or anything else. Just like I stand for the National Anthem at sporting events, not because my devotion only counts when I stand, but for respect for the people who make up the nation, including those who don't stand.

Getting angry because people in a crowd wanted to show respect for others seems a bit weak. While I probably wouldn't have suggested the pledge be said, if I were doing the debate and somebody suggested it I'd say something like, "Sure, why not?" rather than try to explain why I'm going to tell you "no"...

It seems like such a small thing, it doesn't take more than a minute tops, and it wouldn't have taken anything away from the debate.

Good for you. You're always the reasonable moderate who has the conservative position. When you're elected President of the League of Women Voters, you can conduct things that way.

 

[NOVA]

Refusing to say the Pledge
Refusing to stand for the Anthem
Not surrendering your bus seat to a disabled person or a senior in distress
Refusing to shake a persons hand as a sign or friendship
Coughing in a persons face
Forcing yourself into the head of a line....

Not doing these simple, innocent things show much more about the refusnik than anything else....they are nothing more than small expressions of courtesy...
and persons that refuse, for any reason to be courteous are simply assholes....
Not left or right assholes, just plain assholes.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

No, Nationalism is a political mechanism used by Hitler and others, to strengthen public support for racist policy. It has nothing to do with patriotism, and you are sorely mistaken on this. I can see where you would be confused, simple-minded people are often confused by things with nuanced differences.

While nationalism can indeed be used in the manner you describe, you are attempting to limit it to JUST that. THAT is where you are incorrect. You are also incorrect to pretend that I said nationalism has anything to do with patriotism. I did not say that. I said that saying the pledge is BOTH nationalistic and patriotic. Not that the two were the same.

Nationalism is the belief or feeling that one's country is superior to others. Many who say the pledge do indeed feel that way. It is based on rivalry. It is not tolerant of criticisms of it. ie... people who get pissed when others burn the flag.

Patriotism is love of ones country and an expression of that love. While a patriot may not like some of the criticisms, the patriot is tolerant of them and respects the rights of others to voice them. When saying the pledge, some people do indeed feel patriotic.

Not saying the pledge, does indeed make you unpatriotic, just as refusing to serve when you are called upon to serve, also makes you unpatriotic.

1) Again, incorrect. Pledging allegiance to a symbol of this country does not make one patriotic. Patriotism is again an emotional connection to the country. People express that emotion in different ways. Your way does not have to be someone else's way and it is moronic to suggest otherwise.

2) So when they called upon the populace to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan you were there for how long?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Refusing to say the Pledge
Refusing to stand for the Anthem
Not surrendering your bus seat to a disabled person or a senior in distress
Refusing to shake a persons hand as a sign or friendship
Coughing in a persons face
Forcing yourself into the head of a line....

Not doing these simple, innocent things show much more about the refusnik than anything else....they are nothing more than small expressions of courtesy...
and persons that refuse, for any reason to be courteous are simply assholes....
Not left or right assholes, just plain assholes.

I would agree most of the above are signs of discourtesy. With the exception of the first. The courteous can stand during the pledge and remain silent if they so choose. Remaining silent is not discourteous.

When I go to weddings, I sit and stand when others do, but I do not say their prayers etc... not saying something is not a sign of disrespect.

 

[Cancel7]

Refusing to say the Pledge
Refusing to stand for the Anthem
Not surrendering your bus seat to a disabled person or a senior in distress
Refusing to shake a persons hand as a sign or friendship
Coughing in a persons face
Forcing yourself into the head of a line....

Not doing these simple, innocent things show much more about the refusnik than anything else....they are nothing more than small expressions of courtesy...
and persons that refuse, for any reason to be courteous are simply assholes....
Not left or right assholes, just plain assholes.

Don't even get me started on the effin seniors! I can't wait until I'm one so I can start kicking their behinds without getting horrified looks from people!

Those sneaky effers. I caught one of them blatantly cutting in line at Bed, Bath, & Beyond a couple of weeks ago. There is this really long line, and another cashier opened up, and this old lady who was last on line, makes one of those old-lady shuffle beelines over there.

If there hadn't been so many witnesses, I would have loved to have tripped her. They always want special treatment. What for? Not dying young? Consider yourself lucky!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Saying the Pledge for me is more respect for fellows than worry about my devotion to the "Fatherland" or anything else. Just like I stand for the National Anthem at sporting events, not because my devotion only counts when I stand, but for respect for the people who make up the nation, including those who don't stand.

Getting angry because people in a crowd wanted to show respect for others seems a bit weak. While I probably wouldn't have suggested the pledge be said, if I were doing the debate and somebody suggested it I'd say something like, "Sure, why not?" rather than try to explain why I'm going to tell you "no"...

It seems like such a small thing, it doesn't take more than a minute tops, and it wouldn't have taken anything away from the debate.

agreed, which is why the pledge can be both patriotic and nationalistic. It is different for different people. For some its neither, for some its both, for some it is just one of the two.

 

[Bonestorm]

Refusing to say the Pledge
Refusing to stand for the Anthem
Not surrendering your bus seat to a disabled person or a senior in distress
Refusing to shake a persons hand as a sign or friendship
Coughing in a persons face
Forcing yourself into the head of a line....

Not doing these simple, innocent things show much more about the refusnik than anything else....they are nothing more than small expressions of courtesy...
and persons that refuse, for any reason to be courteous are simply assholes....
Not left or right assholes, just plain assholes.

How are the first two remotely similar to the the last four?

If you don't give your seat on the bus to a disabled person or a senior you are causing distress to that senior or disabled person. If you refuse to shake someone's hand you and showing disrespect to that person. If you cough in someone's face, you are beind disrespectful to that person. If you force yourself into the head of the line, you are being disrespectful to the people in the line. (Also, if you do more than 2 of any of these things with any regularity you are most likely a third grader).

If you refuse to say the pledge or sing the national anthem you do not impact any other person in any way whatsoever.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

How are the first two remotely similar to the the last four?

If you don't give your seat on the bus to a disabled person or a senior you are causing distress to that senior or disabled person. If you refuse to shake someone's hand you and showing disrespect to that person. If you cough in someone's face, you are beind disrespectful to that person. If you force yourself into the head of the line, you are being disrespectful to the people in the line. (Also, if you do more than 2 of any of these things with any regularity you are most likely a third grader).

If you refuse to say the pledge or sing the national anthem you do not impact any other person in any way whatsoever.

The second one is a discourtesy. He did not say refusing to SING the anthem... he said refusing to STAND.

When I was in Canada for the winter games, we stood... regardless of whose anthem was playing. As did most people. It IS a courtesy.

That is not to say that people don't have the RIGHT to remain seated, they do.