Get The Super Greeedy Wealth Extractors Out Of Health Care. We Need Single Payer NOW!

[Althea]

Ayn Rand. Lived in public housing, recieved both medicare and social security in her lifetime.

Socialism is fine for the aristocracy, it's only "bad" for the people.

Not so sure about all of that. Rand was wealthy. She was finally convinced to accept Medicare when she was dying of cancer. By the time she collected against that which she paid into SS, she never realized as much as she paid in.

 

[Althea]

Hello Nordberg,



OK, you're right, but it would come across better without the edge. I know it's frustrating to watch a beautiful nation go down the drain, but what happened to your usual composure? You come across much better when you keep your cool.

Composure? On more than one occasion, he's improperly attributed someone else's comments to me, and lumped me in with some of the idiots I happen to have on ignore.

'Composure' isn't the first term I think of when I see Nordberg's work.

 

[Althea]

The Democrats are trying to provide health care to all, something Republicans don't care about. What we have right now let's super-greedy insurance companies earn billions in profit by charging too much. And it still doesn't cover everybody. ER costs are still too high because the uninsured just walk in and never pay. Medicare spends 97% of it's budget on health care. Private insurers are only required to spend 80% under the law they essentially wrote. They are in business to make money, not cover people.

Yes. We have the only 'for profit' healthcare system in the world.

With a public option, we would at the very least see an improvement to Medicare.

 

[Althea]

The democrats are trying to provide a giant corporate subsidy to health insurance companies that earn billions in profits even with Obamacare that added billions in overhead costs to the industry. There is no realistic democratic proposal out there that isn't another Wall Street payoff. The democrats aren't trying to take patents away from big pharma. The democrats are peddling health insurance coverage with such huge out of pocket expenses they are effectively catastrophic only policies that would still bankrupt people just to be able to move people into the "Insured" column for statistical brownie points.

That's not really fair. Obama gave private insurance companies one last chance to do the right thing, before a single payer or public option was put into place.

In exchange for covering pre existing conditions, no limits on annual coverage, a laundry list of 'free' preventive procedures, and a limit on CEO pay, the govt. guaranteed insurers that Fed money would be available in the event of massive claims that weren't predicted. A risk corridor program that has been in place for Medicare forever. Futher, there was Fed money available for cost sharing between companies that did well, and those that didn't.


Congressional Republicans did away with both guarantees, in an attempt to kill the ACA for political purposes. ACA was meant to be a foundation to be built upon. In an attempt to make Obama 'a one term POTUS', Republicans worked tirelessly to take healthcare away from millions of people. They still do it to this day.

 

[Althea]

The ACA was starter program toward a better healthcare system. The rightys went after it after the health insurance companies sicced them on it. The ACA should have been slowly modified toward universalhealthcare. That was the plan. Both parties know our system is unsustainable. TheRepubs want to fix it by taking healthcare away from millions to support those on top. At least admit it.
Universal coverage is the only answer. But insurance companies, hospitals, and drug companies will fight for their bloated profits made off the mysery of others. Want to see what salaries the leaders of those companies are getting? Insurnance companies are in the denial of care business. That is how they max profits. They make you fight to get the coverage you paid for. Get sick and see how much time you spend on phone calls, letters and forms. They pay doctors to find loopholes to justify rejecting your care. It is as bad a system as can be imagined;. They created rescission. What a crime that is.

ACA IS universal coverage. Everyone has the availability to have the same coverage. Republicans want the ACA repealed for one main reason today. That pesky 3.8% cap gains tax on income over $250k/year for those subject to cap gains tax.

 

[Althea]

The democrats with a majority in the Senate and the House couldn't even enact a public option as part of Obamacare. There is no support for it. Taxes would go through the roof. Everything everybody pays in health insurance off government book and then some would have to be brought in as new taxes. The entire industry would be completely disrupted. The other countries largely own their comparatively small number of hospitals to the US. US drugs get to market much faster; US wait times are much shorter. US health care workers are much better paid. Nobody is going to give any of that up.

Public option wouldn't need a hike in taxes. Younger, healthier people could purchase Medicare, helping the program by lowering the high risk demographic that stifles it now.

 

[Althea]

"Market based" is driven by consumers making choices. It's a good thing if you like liberty. It also breeds competition which leads to increased efficiency. "Government run" anything will result in high cost, waste, bloat, inefficiency and cronyism. Not to mention less ability for consumers to have choices.

Correct. We have no choices now. But we would with a public option

 

[Althea]

Universal heathcare means everyone is covered. So no, granny is not singled out nor does she have to pay more. Taxes pay it and all are fully covered.
Whether you are happy with your healthcare is irrelavant. It changes with whatever deal a company makes with insurance companies. They get worse and worse over time.
Insurance companies are actually insurance deniers. they fight you for everything you paid for. They make bigger profits by denying than providing. If you get seriously ill you will findout. I have friends who have fought with insuance compnies to get their care. My bother who worked for one, fought them as they denied treatments for his brain cancer. My wife has leukemia and the hours we have spent fighting insurance companies has been a horror of our lives. Phone calls, paperwork and emails by the hundreds.

Universal health coverage (UHC) means that all people and communities can use the promotive, preventive, curative, rehabilitative and palliative health services they need, of sufficient quality to be effective, while also ensuring that the use of these services does not expose the user to financial hardship.
This definition of UHC embodies three related objectives:

• Equity in access to health services - everyone who needs services should get them, not only those who can pay for them;
• The quality of health services should be good enough to improve the health of those receiving services; and
• People should be protected against financial-risk, ensuring that the cost of using services does not put people at risk of financial harm.

UHC is not necessarily free. ACA, including Medicaid expansion IS UHC.

 

[Althea]

Medicare is single-payer and estimates it has $60 billion fraud annually. Government programs usually have an incentive to spend more. I am always getting calls from companies wanting to send me free stuff that Medicare will pay for. They are obviously finding people who "qualify" and sending them equipment and supplies and billing Medicare. Some don't even bother to send the stuff--they just bill Medicare and move to a different address and change their name and continue scamming the government.

Do you think the VA is a model for what you are recommending?

The 'fraud' typically comes from providers, not patients

 

[Nordberg]

ACA IS universal coverage. Everyone has the availability to have the same coverage. Republicans want the ACA repealed for one main reason today. That pesky 3.8% cap gains tax on income over $250k/year for those subject to cap gains tax.

NO it is not. It left out millions. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/29/15892642/28-million-uninsured-obamacare They want it gone because it was Obama's idea. They are purging Obama like a Russian tsar or Egyptian pharoah trying to get rid of those who came before.

 

[Althea]

NO it is not. It left out millions. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/29/15892642/28-million-uninsured-obamacare They want it gone because it was Obama's idea. They are purging Obama like a Russian tsar or Egyptian pharoah trying to get rid of those who came before.

Yes. It is. Anyone who doesn't have access to healthcare typically lives in a Red State that refused the Medicaid expansion... as your article states. 'Illegal' immigrants don't concern me with respect to healthcare. They are still covered under Reagan's EMTALA.

The remaining people you reference simply chose not to buy health insurance. That doesn't mean they don't have access to emergency care.

You're just using the wrong term to describe a system that you prefer. Single payer, which by default is a form of universal healthcare.

 

[Flash]

The 'fraud' typically comes from providers, not patients

Very true. Nobody said the fraud was on the part of patients, but provider fraud makes it even more expensive. As long as providers can get paid by simply billing the government they are going to take advantage of it.

 

[Celticguy]

Very true. Nobody said the fraud was on the part of patients, but provider fraud makes it even more expensive. As long as providers can get paid by simply billing the government they are going to take advantage of it.

And the fraud is closer to 500b.
AMA got medicare written to maximize revenue

 

[Nordberg]

Yes. It is. Anyone who doesn't have access to healthcare typically lives in a Red State that refused the Medicaid expansion... as your article states. 'Illegal' immigrants don't concern me with respect to healthcare. They are still covered under Reagan's EMTALA.

The remaining people you reference simply chose not to buy health insurance. That doesn't mean they don't have access to emergency care.

You're just using the wrong term to describe a system that you prefer. Single payer, which by default is a form of universal healthcare.

Having the option to opt out makes it non-universal, but optional. Not the same thing.Universal just covers all. Done by taxes.

 

[Nordberg]

And the fraud is closer to 500b.
AMA got medicare written to maximize revenue

Pharm set it up so Medicare cannot fish for better drug prices. So PHARM charges us the max and they get more expensive instead of cheaper. That was due to PHARM lobbying power and donations to elections and Pacs. The real problem distills down to not having publically financed elections . That is the real fraud.
The same problem exists in medical durable goods like wheelchairs and appliances. They work the same lobbying magic that PHARM does. We have produced bills to stop it and Mcconnell sits on them untill it dies. https://www.compassphs.com/blog/healthcare-price-transparency-durable-medical-equipment/

 

[Nordberg]

It is a lot more than Medicare fraud, although that is bad. https://www.nhcaa.org/resources/hea...urces/the-challenge-of-health-care-fraud.aspx

Most Medicare fraud is done by doctors and labs. Often the doctor owns,or is a partner, in a lab and they charge for tests not done of overcharge. Same for durable goods. We are being cheated like crazy in our present system.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Yes. We have the only 'for profit' healthcare system in the world.

With a public option, we would at the very least see an improvement to Medicare.

The American healthcare system MUST BE REMOVED FROM the "for profit" category. (So should the prison system, but that is for another time and place.)

The "insurance" aspect should be gone by tomorrow.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Very true. Nobody said the fraud was on the part of patients, but provider fraud makes it even more expensive. As long as providers can get paid by simply billing the government they are going to take advantage of it.

As long as people can get food by simply taking it from food shelves...they will.

It is illegal...and can be made right by enforcement.

Yeah...there are the kinds of fraud problems you mention, but we can deal with that and with fraudsters.

 

[Althea]

Having the option to opt out makes it non-universal, but optional. Not the same thing.Universal just covers all. Done by taxes.

We can continue to beat this thing until it's dead, or you can just realize that your terminology is a bit off. I studied this extensively during the more than one year of Congressional debates when ACA was being fought out.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/feature...iversal_healthcare_vs_single_payer_healthcare

With universal coverage, all individuals receive access to healthcare services, including preventative, emergency and palliative care, without it becoming a financial hardship. With this type of plan, coverage is provided by different entities. For example, residents can choose from a pool of insurance companies to pay for their healthcare. The problem, though, is that this type of healthcare isn't free. So if the individual or employer isn't picking up the tab, who is?
One suggestion to cover the costs of universal healthcare is to use a special payroll or income tax, which would be combined into a pool to pay healthcare providers. Another option would be to require all individuals to purchase a health insurance policy, with government assistance available to those with limited incomes.

[FONT=&quot]Under a single-payer healthcare system, everyone receives comprehensive coverage regardless of their ability to pay. The government is the only entity paying for the coverage, most likely funded through taxes. In this system, the term "single-payer" refers to the government. A good example of this type of single-payer, government-funded coverage is Medicare. In fact, you may have heard the term "Medicare for All" in reference to the idea of a single-payer healthcare available for all ages in the U.S.[/FONT]

 

[Ross Dolan]

Healthcare SHOULD NOT be a "for profit" operation.

One of the things that should be done is for the government to pay for the education of doctors and nurses...with a requirement that reimbursement be made through "service"...sorta like we do with military officers at the military academies.

Medical facilities should be "not for profit"...funded by government.