Giuliani: Ease Burdens on Business

yes kids, being a right-winger is easy. if something seems to be going well, even for only the short term, claim that it is because of something you did, preferably because of tax cuts, nor matter how unrealistic.

If something is not going well, blame Sarbanes-Oxley...unless your name id Rusy, then just say; "9-11 changed everything".

Ok, I work for a Fortune 1000 company and we are making corporate decisions right now as a result of Sarbanes-Oxley but then what do I know?

We work with other large corporations and Sarbanes-Oxley has been a big topic of discussion. But again, I'm just some 'right-winger' making sh*t up.
 
yes kids, being a right-winger is easy. if something seems to be going well, even for only the short term, claim that it is because of something you did, preferably because of tax cuts, nor matter how unrealistic.

If something is not going well, blame Sarbanes-Oxley...unless your name id Rusy, then just say; "9-11 changed everything".

May I ask where you work? I'm just curious if have any experience with Sarbanes-Oxley.
 
[Ok, I work for a Fortune 1000 company and we are making corporate decisions right now as a result of Sarbanes-Oxley but then what do I know?

We work with other large corporations and Sarbanes-Oxley has been a big topic of discussion. But again, I'm just some 'right-winger' making sh*t up.]

...and I'm Santa Claus. You've been naughty. No iPhone for you!

Please, that doesn't amount to a hill of shit, as an argument. Please present something other than "because I say so".
 
[Ok, I work for a Fortune 1000 company and we are making corporate decisions right now as a result of Sarbanes-Oxley but then what do I know?

We work with other large corporations and Sarbanes-Oxley has been a big topic of discussion. But again, I'm just some 'right-winger' making sh*t up.]

...and I'm Santa Claus. You've been naughty. No iPhone for you!

Please, that doesn't amount to a hill of shit, as an argument. Please present something other than "because I say so".

Would you like me to present notes from our meetings or meetings with our clients?

Hey man, you are free to believe whatever you want. I'm stating what we are currently dealing with.
 
If such were true, you could find some poll, somewhere, dealing with companies who chose to outsource due to Sarbanes-Oxley.

Please provide something of the like.
 
If such were true, you could find some poll, somewhere, dealing with companies who chose to outsource due to Sarbanes-Oxley.

Please provide something of the like.

I don't work in the polling business so I have no poll for you. There have been multiple articles written about S-O in various business publications discussing the burdens S-O is putting on companies including some companies not wanting to go public as a result.
 
Also, please provide an idea of a replacement for SO. try to remember that SO was put in place as a response to unethical and criminal activity.

S-O is a perfect example of politicians overreacting to a "crisis" with legislation that makes the public think they are doing something to address the "crisis" and then the legislation causes many problems in the future.

There is no number of laws that can completely prevent someone (or a group of people) in business from attempting to do something illegal. Our system worked in that these companies were discovered and those who perpetrated these acts were caught and are in jail.

To start regarding S-O there are several onerous provisions that have been complained about from day one that need to changed immediately.
 
So show me an article that speaks od Sarbanes-Oxley causing an increase in outsorcing. That was the calim...back it up.

"""Giuliani is dead on with this assesment and he should start with Sarbanes-Oxley. That law right there is causing businesses to think about moving overseas as the amount of reporting and paperwork required is so cumbersome and non productive and is a serious drain on all companies."""

This was my quote. Notice I said causing businesses to THINK and then I later stated from what I'm dealing with in corporate america as to why I believe that to be the case.

I am not going to back up what I didn't say.
 
I am sick and tired of these burdens on big business! Why can't we be free to work like this (below) here? I think that this says it all:

At the Shakti Industries foundry, “there are no accidents, never ever. Period,” Mr. Modi said. “By God’s will, it’s all fine.”

I am prayerful that Rudy will be elected and then we will all be "freed" to work like these men in the story below are. I am hopping mad that I am being held back from doing this, and I know that men like Cawacko are too, because there is nothing Cawacko would enjoy more than a day in a 100 plus degree factory, with flames licking at this body...all the while filled with that peaceful feeling you get when you know you don't need no stinking regulations, Gods got your back.

But God isn't good enough for the liberals, noooo.

NEW DELHI — Eight thousand miles from Manhattan, barefoot, shirtless, whip-thin men rippled with muscle were forging prosaic pieces of the urban jigsaw puzzle: manhole covers.

Seemingly impervious to the heat from the metal, the workers at one of West Bengal’s many foundries relied on strength and bare hands rather than machinery. Safety precautions were barely in evidence; just a few pairs of eye goggles were seen in use on a recent visit. The foundry, Shakti Industries in Haora, produces manhole covers for Con Edison and New York City’s Department of Environmental Protection, as well as for departments in New Orleans and Syracuse.

The scene was as spectacular as it was anachronistic: flames, sweat and liquid iron mixing in the smoke like something from the Middle Ages. That’s what attracted the interest of a photographer who often works for The New York Times — images that practically radiate heat and illustrate where New York’s manhole covers are born.

When officials at Con Edison — which buys a quarter of its manhole covers, roughly 2,750 a year, from India — were shown the pictures by the photographer, they said they were surprised.

“We were disturbed by the photos,” said Michael S. Clendenin, director of media relations with Con Edison. “We take worker safety very seriously,” he said.

Now, the utility said, it is rewriting international contracts to include safety requirements. Contracts will now require overseas manufacturers to “take appropriate actions to provide a safe and healthy workplace,” and to follow local and federal guidelines in India, Mr. Clendenin said.

At Shakti, street grates, manhole covers and other castings were scattered across the dusty yard. Inside, men wearing sandals and shorts carried coke and iron ore piled high in baskets on their heads up stairs to the furnace feeding room.

On the ground floor, other men, often shoeless and stripped to the waist, waited with giant ladles, ready to catch the molten metal that came pouring out of the furnace. A few women were working, but most of the heavy lifting appeared to be left to the men.

The temperature outside the factory yard was more than 100 degrees on a September visit. Several feet from where the metal was being poured, the area felt like an oven, and the workers were slick with sweat.

Often, sparks flew from pots of the molten metal. In one instance they ignited a worker’s lungi, a skirtlike cloth wrap that is common men’s wear in India. He quickly, reflexively, doused the flames by rubbing the burning part of the cloth against the rest of it with his hand, then continued to cart the metal to a nearby mold.

Once the metal solidified and cooled, workers removed the manhole cover casting from the mold and then, in the last step in the production process, ground and polished the rough edges. Finally, the men stacked the covers and bolted them together for shipping.

“We can’t maintain the luxury of Europe and the United States, with all the boots and all that,” said Sunil Modi, director of Shakti Industries. He said, however, that the foundry never had accidents. He was concerned about the attention, afraid that contracts would be pulled and jobs lost.

New York City’s Department of Environmental Protection gets most of its sewer manhole covers from India. When asked in an e-mail message about the department’s source of covers, Mark Daly, director of communications for the Department of Citywide Administrative Services, said that state law requires the city to buy the lowest-priced products available that fit its specifications.

Mr. Daly said the law forbids the city from excluding companies based on where a product is manufactured.

Municipalities and utility companies often buy their manhole covers through middlemen who contract with foreign foundries; New York City buys the sewer covers through a company in Flushing, Queens.

Con Edison said it did not plan to cancel any of its contracts with Shakti after seeing the photographs, though it has been phasing out Indian-made manhole covers for several years because of changes in design specifications.

Manhole covers manufactured in India can be anywhere from 20 to 60 percent cheaper than those made in the United States, said Alfred Spada, the editor and publisher of Modern Casting magazine and the spokesman for the American Foundry Society. Workers at foundries in India are paid the equivalent of a few dollars a day, while foundry workers in the United States earn about $25 an hour.

The men making New York City’s manhole covers seemed proud of their work and pleased to be photographed doing it. The production manager at the Shakti Industries factory, A. Ahmed, was enthusiastic about the photographer’s visit, and gave a full tour of the facilities, stopping to measure the temperature of the molten metal — some 1,400 degrees Centigrade, or more than 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit.

India’s 1948 Factory Safety Act addresses cleanliness, ventilation, waste treatment, overtime pay and fresh drinking water, but the only protective gear it specifies is safety goggles.

Mr. Modi said that his factory followed basic safety regulations and that workers should not be barefoot. “It must have been a very hot day” when the photos were taken, he said.

Some labor activists in India say that injuries are far higher than figures show. “Many accidents are not being reported,” said H. Mahadevan, the deputy general secretary for the All-India Trade Union Congress.

Safety, overall, is “not taken as a serious concern by employers or trade unions,” Mr. Mahadevan added.

A. K. Anand, the director of the Institute of Indian Foundrymen in New Delhi, a trade association, said in a phone interview that foundry workers were “not supposed to be working barefoot,” but he could not answer questions about what safety equipment they should be wearing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/nyregion/26manhole.html?hp=&pagewanted=print
 
So if we allow businesses to run their books like a bunch of bullshit and bust out peoples lives like enron did, will we be guaranteed X number of jobs from our benevolent multinational corporations, or will there be something else after that is the NEW reason americans don't deserve to live?
 
So if we allow businesses to run their books like a bunch of bullshit and bust out peoples lives like enron did, will we be guaranteed X number of jobs from our benevolent multinational corporations, or will there be something else after that is the NEW reason americans don't deserve to live?
Oh, there is no end to that list.
 
I am sick and tired of these burdens on big business! Why can't we be free to work like this (below) here? I think that this says it all:

At the Shakti Industries foundry, “there are no accidents, never ever. Period,” Mr. Modi said. “By God’s will, it’s all fine.”

I am prayerful that Rudy will be elected and then we will all be "freed" to work like these men in the story below are. I am hopping mad that I am being held back from doing this, and I know that men like Cawacko are too, because there is nothing Cawacko would enjoy more than a day in a 100 plus degree factory, with flames licking at this body...all the while filled with that peaceful feeling you get when you know you don't need no stinking regulations, Gods got your back.

But God isn't good enough for the liberals, noooo.

NEW DELHI — Eight thousand miles from Manhattan, barefoot, shirtless, whip-thin men rippled with muscle were forging prosaic pieces of the urban jigsaw puzzle: manhole covers.

Seemingly impervious to the heat from the metal, the workers at one of West Bengal’s many foundries relied on strength and bare hands rather than machinery. Safety precautions were barely in evidence; just a few pairs of eye goggles were seen in use on a recent visit. The foundry, Shakti Industries in Haora, produces manhole covers for Con Edison and New York City’s Department of Environmental Protection, as well as for departments in New Orleans and Syracuse.

The scene was as spectacular as it was anachronistic: flames, sweat and liquid iron mixing in the smoke like something from the Middle Ages. That’s what attracted the interest of a photographer who often works for The New York Times — images that practically radiate heat and illustrate where New York’s manhole covers are born.

When officials at Con Edison — which buys a quarter of its manhole covers, roughly 2,750 a year, from India — were shown the pictures by the photographer, they said they were surprised.

“We were disturbed by the photos,” said Michael S. Clendenin, director of media relations with Con Edison. “We take worker safety very seriously,” he said.

Now, the utility said, it is rewriting international contracts to include safety requirements. Contracts will now require overseas manufacturers to “take appropriate actions to provide a safe and healthy workplace,” and to follow local and federal guidelines in India, Mr. Clendenin said.

At Shakti, street grates, manhole covers and other castings were scattered across the dusty yard. Inside, men wearing sandals and shorts carried coke and iron ore piled high in baskets on their heads up stairs to the furnace feeding room.

On the ground floor, other men, often shoeless and stripped to the waist, waited with giant ladles, ready to catch the molten metal that came pouring out of the furnace. A few women were working, but most of the heavy lifting appeared to be left to the men.

The temperature outside the factory yard was more than 100 degrees on a September visit. Several feet from where the metal was being poured, the area felt like an oven, and the workers were slick with sweat.

Often, sparks flew from pots of the molten metal. In one instance they ignited a worker’s lungi, a skirtlike cloth wrap that is common men’s wear in India. He quickly, reflexively, doused the flames by rubbing the burning part of the cloth against the rest of it with his hand, then continued to cart the metal to a nearby mold.

Once the metal solidified and cooled, workers removed the manhole cover casting from the mold and then, in the last step in the production process, ground and polished the rough edges. Finally, the men stacked the covers and bolted them together for shipping.

“We can’t maintain the luxury of Europe and the United States, with all the boots and all that,” said Sunil Modi, director of Shakti Industries. He said, however, that the foundry never had accidents. He was concerned about the attention, afraid that contracts would be pulled and jobs lost.

New York City’s Department of Environmental Protection gets most of its sewer manhole covers from India. When asked in an e-mail message about the department’s source of covers, Mark Daly, director of communications for the Department of Citywide Administrative Services, said that state law requires the city to buy the lowest-priced products available that fit its specifications.

Mr. Daly said the law forbids the city from excluding companies based on where a product is manufactured.

Municipalities and utility companies often buy their manhole covers through middlemen who contract with foreign foundries; New York City buys the sewer covers through a company in Flushing, Queens.

Con Edison said it did not plan to cancel any of its contracts with Shakti after seeing the photographs, though it has been phasing out Indian-made manhole covers for several years because of changes in design specifications.

Manhole covers manufactured in India can be anywhere from 20 to 60 percent cheaper than those made in the United States, said Alfred Spada, the editor and publisher of Modern Casting magazine and the spokesman for the American Foundry Society. Workers at foundries in India are paid the equivalent of a few dollars a day, while foundry workers in the United States earn about $25 an hour.

The men making New York City’s manhole covers seemed proud of their work and pleased to be photographed doing it. The production manager at the Shakti Industries factory, A. Ahmed, was enthusiastic about the photographer’s visit, and gave a full tour of the facilities, stopping to measure the temperature of the molten metal — some 1,400 degrees Centigrade, or more than 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit.

India’s 1948 Factory Safety Act addresses cleanliness, ventilation, waste treatment, overtime pay and fresh drinking water, but the only protective gear it specifies is safety goggles.

Mr. Modi said that his factory followed basic safety regulations and that workers should not be barefoot. “It must have been a very hot day” when the photos were taken, he said.

Some labor activists in India say that injuries are far higher than figures show. “Many accidents are not being reported,” said H. Mahadevan, the deputy general secretary for the All-India Trade Union Congress.

Safety, overall, is “not taken as a serious concern by employers or trade unions,” Mr. Mahadevan added.

A. K. Anand, the director of the Institute of Indian Foundrymen in New Delhi, a trade association, said in a phone interview that foundry workers were “not supposed to be working barefoot,” but he could not answer questions about what safety equipment they should be wearing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/nyregion/26manhole.html?hp=&pagewanted=print


good article.

Prepare for the onslaught of "strawman" accusations.
 
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