Here's why the soft civil war will go hot...

[Into the Night]

How can the CSA have wanted war if it was the War of Northern Aggression? Lincoln invaded Virginia. The vast majority of Civil War battles were with the Union invaders in Southern states. Lincoln himself wrote that he was fighting the war, not to end slavery, but to force the secessionist states back into the Union.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...erican_Civil_War_Battles_by_Theater,_Year.png

This is correct, but the first opening shots in the war was in South Carolina, in response to the continued occupation and resupply of U.S. troops in what then was a foreign nation WITHOUT that nation's authorization.

 

[Into the Night]

Because they committed an act of war?

The CSA did commit many acts of war. The first overt act, however, was Lincoln's, by resupplying troops in a foreign nation without that nation's authorization.
That is an act of war. The South Carolina militia fired upon them in response to defend their territory.

 

[Into the Night]

LOL Thanks for the admission.

Secession isn't an act of war. Invading a state that seceded is an act of war.

Absolutely correct.

 

[Into the Night]

The CSA committed an act of war.

Both the Union and the CSA committed many acts of war. That's what war is.

 

[Into the Night]

Yep, that's what the Yankees claim.

The Yankees are correct. However, the Yankees also committed many acts of war, just as the CSA did.
You are correct in pointing out that seceding from the United States is not an act of war.

 

[Tranquillus in Exile]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...erican_Civil_War_Battles_by_Theater,_Year.png

I didn't know there were Civil War battles in North Dakota! What went on up there? The Sioux seceded?

 

[Into the Night]

Occupying or trying to seize land and resources may very well be the original act of war.

The States already occupied and owned the land and its resources, dumbass. They did not invade their own States. When the States voted to secede and leave the Union, that is not an act of war. That is simply leaving the Union. They are then free to form a union or confederation of their own. That is not an act of war. They have simply become a foreign country.

A State has the right to join the Union, and it has the right to leave it.

On the other hand, a foreign power, which has military troops in a foreign country and attempts to resupply said forces without that foreign country's authorization, that IS an act of war. That is what Lincoln did.

 

[Into the Night]

Space aliens may very well live among us, but I doubt it in our case. I'm not going to refight the Civil War results with you. It is what it is now but not necessarily then. What you and I are disagreeing upon is exactly the same as then: Whether or not the States have a right to their own autonomy.

They do. They are free to form a constitutional government within the State, and to join the Union of the United States, supporting the federal government created by those States. They also have the right to leave said Union, and no longer support the federal government created by the States of the Union.

The federal government is created by the States. It's authority only stems from the States. The States created the Constitution. Only the States can change or interpret it. Only the States can abandon it or destroy it. The federal government has NO power over any State except that which is given specifically by the Constitution of the United States. Leaving the Union means leaving that Constitution with it. Nothing about such a secession is an act of war. That State simply becomes an independent State, essentially a foreign country. It is free to join any confederation or the Union that it wishes to. It is free to abandon constitutional government and institute a different form of government, if it chooses to do so.

It is up to that State, not the federal government, whether a State wishes to remain part of the Union.

 

[Into the Night]

As far as a "hot" civil war goes, it won't start with 'agent provocateurs,' particularly a small number of lone actors of that sort. A hot civil war starts when the mob takes over things like a federal armory or other government property that allows the mob access to large numbers of weapons and military equipment.
That is, when things go from protests to guerilla warfare and then to open warfare by organized opposition you get a real civil war. Some idiot smashing windows to discredit the other side isn't going to cut it.

So 150 rounds shot into an apartment complex in Portland doesn't count, eh?

 

[Into the Night]

I don't think Americans would stomach violence and death in the street.

They already have little stomach for it.

The chances of riots in the street after the election are high, and yes, someone will pull a gun somewhere and cause some serious death.

Already happened. The shootings resulting in death in Austin riots, Portland riots, and Seattle riots and CHAZ are examples.

But the public will respond to it with damnation, and that will be that!

They already are.

Democrats and Republicans don't agree an many things anymore- BUT THEY WILL ON THIS!

Democrats are the ones funding these rioters. They are bailing them out of jail. They support their cause. They are trying to protect them with propaganda. They are not enforcing the law, allowing these riots to continue unabated. Biden himself has bailed out rioters. He continues to support them with propaganda (when he can put a coherent sentence together). AOC and Pelosi are supporting the rioters. Democrat governors like Inslee here in Washington are supporting the rioters. The mayors of Seattle, Portland, Chicago, New York City, and Minneapolis, support the rioters.

No one wants a political war in the streets!

It's already here. You are too late on that.

Just ask Ireland how that worked out for them.

Badly. That was not a political war so much as a religious war between the 'Green' (Ireland and protestants) and the 'Orange' (the Church of England and orthodoxy). It was a political war in the sense that Ireland wanted to declare independence from England over this.

 

[Into the Night]

That's why I didn't bother watching it. it looks like typical Conservatardom.

I realize you hate the Constitution and Trump, but you used to be a bit more subtle with it.

 

[Into the Night]

Months ago I had some users tell me there was no chance of a Civil War, I wonder what they think now?

Really doesn't matter, does it?

 

[StoneByStone]

I realize you hate the Constitution and Trump, but you used to be a bit more subtle with it.

Is it hard being the dumbest person here?

 

[Into the Night]

It's becoming strikingly clear that Trump's more of a Fascist, than a Conservative. Nothing Conservative about Trump, not fiscally Conservative, nor socially Conservative, either.

Trump is not forcing any business to do anything by dictat. Everything he has done has been through negotiations with the companies involved, and those companies willingly agreed, not by any duress.

Trump stands for the Constitution of the United States and the constitutions of the several States. That makes him a conservative.

Fiscal matters are decided by the House, not Trump.

WTF is 'socially Conservative'??

 

[Into the Night]

There's probably even less of one now because Trump has lost so much support.

Yah. You just keep believing in your utterly useless polls.

 

[Into the Night]

Well, it's simple history that conquest of land and resources is an act of war. The federal government owns the land rights making it not within state rights to seize it.

WRONG. The federal government only owns the land that it has purchased within a State for needful facilities and buildings, such as a federal courthouse or a military base. That purchase is the same as any other buying that land, or may own land by treaty (an agreement made by the States of the Union).

Just like how Federal gave lands to the Natives and the states they reside in have no jurisdiction there.

The States are paid for that land they give up for the purposes of these treaties. Make no mistake. These are treaties. The States do have limited jurisdiction there, but the various reservations still have their own government that has primary jurisdiction. Because the treaty was made between the States of the Union and the tribe involved, it is considered essentially federal land.

The federal government does not own any other land in any State. The States own that land, subject to the individuals that have purchased any land within the State.

The federal government CANNOT just claim any land it wishes to. It is wholly subject to the States, having only the powers and authorities that only the States themselves have given it.

 

[Into the Night]

Agreed....and these guys know it too;

Manifest Destiny, eh? Thanks, Lincoln!

This is just bigotry.

Some tribes were horribly treated by evil men in government (I'm looking at you, Pres. Jackson). Some voluntarily made treaties with the United States. Quite a few indians were friendly with the colonists, even helping them through their first winter and showing them how to grow crops native to this land (such as corn).

 

[Into the Night]

I actually don't know how Trump still has supporters, considering he's outdone Obama on Stimulus freebies & debt, while Obama outdid Trump on deporting undocumented immigrants.

Both statements are lies.

 

[Into the Night]

Fascists don't really care about policies that much. They care about personality.

Go learn English. It works better.

 

[Into the Night]

Yeah, most Conservatives think they're Individualist, but they go Fascist the second there's a movement for that.

Go learn English. It works better.