Hezbollah Democrats

It isn't a nationalist organisation, the central theme isn't the promotion of the nation state, but an expansion of a theocracy under a dictatorship.


A theocratic NATION under a central rule selected by their similar to nationalistic stance of superiority of ideation....

SIMILAR TO is not the same as saying that they are the same thing.... This is a strawman again, a better dressed one, but still in clown clothes.


A nationalist organisation is centred around the concept of a nation state. Being a centralised dictatorship doesn't counteract this.

This one is centered around the concept of a creation of a nation state centralized under one rule... (notice the similarities with nationalism?)


The Caliphate is a theocratic dictatorship. It isn't a fascist organisation nor does it have nationalist intentions.

But it has SIMILARITIES... ignoring them because you don't wish people to use a word is simply fallacious argument not based in logical determination but in emotional rhetoric of your own!

Describing the supporters of the Caliphate as fascists is simply poor rhetoric.
But describing them using a new term inculcating the religious centralism of the movement of centralizing the world under one-world government isn't.
 
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C'mon damo. We're intelligent people, with superior grammar skills to Geogre Bush, and superior knowledge of the nuance and meanings of words.

If you could pick one ideology that most appropriately describes bin ladin's ideology, would it be:

1) Theocratic dictatorship

or.....

2) Fascists dictatorship.
 
Hannity is simply repeating an idea from somebody far more successful. However that doesn't change that the idea can, and seems to, be based in actual logic rather than just "lazy rhetoric"....

There is no logic in calling them Islamofascists.

It is non-sequiter, it doesn't follow.

Listing similarities doesn't mean they fit into the definition.

A cow eats grass, breaths oxygen and gives milk to its young but that doesn't make it a horse. (that isn't strawman, it is an analogy to your argument)

The fundamental requirements for fascism, amalgamating state and commerce for the purpose of promotion of the nation state AREN'T met by these theocrats.

Why not describe them as they are? They are far better described as Islamic extremist theocrats than islamofascists.

The reason they aren't described as they are is SIMPLY RHETORICAL, creating a mental picture....
 
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BTW: "theocracy" is a horrible thing. I don't know why Hannity is afraid to use it. Its IS the more appropriate word to describe al qaeda.

Theocracy, is in fact, what our founders came to america to escape, generally speaking. Calling them (accurately) islamic theocrats is a HUGE insult to them, for any red blooded american.
 
C'mon damo. We're intelligent people, with superior grammar skills to Geogre Bush, and superior knowledge of the nuance and meanings of words.

If you could pick one ideology that most appropriately describes bin ladin's ideology, would it be:

1) Theocratic dictatorship

or.....

2) Fascists dictatorship.

It would be more like a mixture of the two... That he uses a religion to base it, doesn't change the animal he wishes to create and why. It is very similar in nature to nationalism. Hence the whole "fascist" reference in the new terminology....

That you attempt to ignore the similarities because you don't like that the other side uses a word is silly lazy political blindsmanship of a high order. Attempting to say that it is "logic" because you set up the strawmant that "similar" means "the same" isn't logic it is fallacy, is an actual strawman, and doesn't "dismiss" my argument in any way.

It is lazy to attempt to make similar mean equal to or the same.... We know that it doesn't and it is simple dressing to attempt to do so.
 
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AOI already pointed out the rhetorical laziness of linking "similarities" in ANY form of dictatorship.

What we're discussing is the accurate and formal word, to describe al qaeda's ideology: theocratic dictatorship.

Damo, had you ever wondered why on earth the "islamic-fascist" word is only used on fox news, and by rightwing pundits, but 99% of the rest of the world describes al qaeda as theocratic islmamic extremists?

IMO: its because Fox News is trying to market the war on al qaeda using "terrifying" words that elicit an emotional response in the context of american history: fascism and communism.
 
We have to make up new scary names for the other side to make them sound very bad, esp since we are doing so poorly against them. Our poor performance cannot be due to our inept leadership after all now can it.
 
AOI already pointed out the rhetorical laziness of linking "similarities" in ANY form of dictatorship.

What we're discussing is the accurate and formal word, to describe al qaeda's ideology: theocratic dictatorship.

Damo, had you ever wondered why on earth the "islamic-fascist" word is only used on fox news, and by rightwing pundits, but 99% of the rest of the world describes al qaeda as theocratic islmamic extremists?

IMO: its because Fox News is trying to market the war on al qaeda using "terrifying" words that elicit an emotional response in the context of american history: fascism and communism.
And I pointed out how it isn't "laziness" when all one is doing is creating new phraseology. It is simple political blinders to simply dismiss the similarities because the idea comes from a different political source than your own. When creating new phrases in language one often creates a conglomeration of words based on similarities.

It is foolish to maintain that they must be exactly the same. If they were there would be no need for a new word.
 
We have to make up new scary names for the other side to make them sound very bad, esp since we are doing so poorly against them. Our poor performance cannot be due to our inept leadership after all now can it.
Strawman alert!!!! WHOOOP WHOOOP WHOOP! Strawman Alert!!!

When have I ever stated that this group was doing a fine job? This is such total strawman rhetoric.
 
And I pointed out how it isn't "laziness" when all one is doing is creating new phraseology. It is simple political blinders to simply dismiss the similarities because the idea comes from a different political source than your own. When creating new phrases in language one often creates a conglomeration of words based on similarities.

It is foolish to maintain that they must be exactly the same. If they were there would be no need for a new word.


Thank you. Indeed your inventing a "new phraseology" like you say.

From now on, I'm going to use a new phraseology to describe the Chinese government: China is ruled by fascists, not communists: They are highly nationalistic in scope, allow private enterprise (under government control), and are authoritarian in scope ;)
 
theocratic NATION under a central rule selected by their similar to nationalistic stance of superiority of ideation....

That isn't fascism. You are describing a centralised dictatorship.

SIMILAR TO is not the same as saying that they are the same thing.... This is a strawman again, a better dressed one, but still in clown clothes.

It isn't strawman. You are making ambigious claims and then retorting to any reply that they are strawman.

hey aren't similar to fascists. Neither is Islamofascism an accurate description of them. Nowhere near.

It's like saying a cow is similar to a horse because they both eat grass. Would you then call a cow a bovine-horse????

This one is centered around the concept of a creation of a nation state centralized under one rule... (notice the similarities with nationalism?)

It isn't centred on creation the nation state, it is centred on creating a centralised theocracy. The Caliphate isn't dedicated to promoting the notion of Egyptianness or Saudiness, but on the promotion of Islam.

You are describing a theocratic dictatorship, not fascism.

The only similarity that you have identified is the centralised dictatorship, which doesn't justfiy describing them as fascist.



But it has SIMILARITIES... ignoring them because you don't wish people to use a word is simply fallacious argument not based in logical determination but in emotional rhetoric of your own!

There are similarities between a horse and a cow but you don't interchange the names as you like.

The similarites are also similarites shared by other ideologies, monarchies and communism, for example are centralised dictatorships.

The truth is, they are better described as Islamic theocrats, simply because they aren't fascists.

I don't like the term simply because I abhor lazy and cheap rhetoric, which is what this is...


But describing them using a new term inculcating the religious centralism of the movement of centralizing the world under one-world government isn't.

It doesn't describe that. A central dictatorship doesn't make fascism.

Islamic theocracy describes it, Islamic dictatorship describes it.

Islamofascism doesn't. It is, as I have repeated ad nausium, just poor pathos-based rhetoric designed to create an emotional response.
 
Thank you. Indeed your inventing a "new phraseology" like you say.

From now on, I'm going to use a new phraseology to describe the Chinese government: China is ruled by fascists, not communists: They are highly nationalistic in scope, allow private enterprise (under government control), and are authoritarian in scope ;)
Except you don't use a new term. If you used say "Comunofascist" to describe them I'd think it was a new phrase....

Do you see the difference? Or do you want to continue to construct this strawman just to see it fall into the cheap parts it has begun with?
 
And I pointed out how it isn't "laziness" when all one is doing is creating new phraseology.

The term Islamofascists doesn't describe in the slightest these people.

Islamic theocrats or Islamic dictatorship describes what they actually are.

Islamofascism is a rhetorical invention, designed to creat maximum pathos effect, but is nonsensical.

I'll repeat... Fascism isn't just a centralised dictatorship, even one with global asperations. That would deem Stalin as fascist.
 
If you used say "Comunofascist" to describe them I'd think it was a new phrase....

Yeah, lets just attach the word fascism to anything, despite the true meaning of the word....

Despite that Communism and fascism are incompatible, you couldn't have Communo-fascism because they contradict each other.

You are starting to sound as daft as Dixie now....
 
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You're welcom to invent a "new phraseology" Damo. ;)


I don't really care. Its totally inaccurate, and way outside the formal definition of the words.

I also find it odd, that this islmo-facisct word was invented in the Fox news room, the RNC, and in Karl Rove's office. Hardly anyone else in the world uses that term, including non-partisan middle east and foreign policy experts around the world.
 
Hardly anyone else in the world uses that term, including non-partisan middle east and foreign policy experts around the world.

The only people I've heard use / support it have been Bush, Dixie and Damo...
 
Strawman alert!!!! WHOOOP WHOOOP WHOOP! Strawman Alert!!!

When have I ever stated that this group was doing a fine job? This is such total strawman rhetoric.

And how was that a strawman ?
Just an explanation for the new republican term of hatred.
 
Hardly anyone else in the world uses that term, including non-partisan middle east and foreign policy experts around the world.

The only people I've heard use / support it have been Bush, Dixie and Damo...

I'm not sure why the Bushies are afraid to call it was it really is: Theocracy.

"Theocracy" should be a terrifying word to americans. We fled european theocracies to found this nation. Our very first right, enshrined in the Constitutions, is a guarantee AGAINST theocracy. Its the first amendment.

I suspect Fox News and Karl Rove simply like the word "fascism" as a marketing tool. But, is rhetorically lazy and inaccurate
 
theocratic NATION under a central rule selected by their similar to nationalistic stance of superiority of ideation....

That isn't fascism. You are describing a centralised dictatorship.

SIMILAR TO is not the same as saying that they are the same thing.... This is a strawman again, a better dressed one, but still in clown clothes.

It isn't strawman. You are making ambigious claims and then retorting to any reply that they are strawman.

they aren't similar to fascists. Neither is Islamofascism an accurate description of them. Nowhere near.
It depends on how Islamofascism is defined. In this case it is pointing out the similarities in nationalism while also showing it is different than fascism by pointing out the religious centralism of the movement. Ignoring both points of the new terminology, attempting to say that they are stating that it is equal to only one piece of the new definition and ignoring the rest, is lazy argument based in strawmen. I have pointed it out several times and your only answer is "No it isn't and it isn't a strawman"... There is no logic to back up the statement, just lazy strawmen about how similar means the same thing as "the same as"...

It's like saying a cow is similar to a horse because they both eat grass. Would you then call a cow a bovine-horse????
Bullpucky. It is more like finding a group of people that use the same tactics as pirates but aren't pirates and calling them "semi-piratical"...

This is another strawman, more elaborate and better dressed, but not the same thing.

Your argument is like stating that somebody who just came up with the term "Quadruped" to describe four-footed creatures as a whole can't use the term because the only similarity is four feet...

This one is centered around the concept of a creation of a nation state centralized under one rule... (notice the similarities with nationalism?)

It isn't centred on creation the nation state, it is centred on creating a centralised theocracy. The Caliphate isn't dedicated to promoting the notion of Egyptianness or Saudiness, but on the promotion of Islam.

The Caliphate replaces national governments and thus becomes the nation.... Attempting to say that it isn't similar is rubbish.

You are describing a theocratic dictatorship, not fascism.

I am describing a form of "religious nationalism" not simply "theocratic dicatatorship"... I believe it is more than that.


The only similarity that you have identified is the centralised dictatorship, which doesn't justfiy describing them as fascist.

Bullox. I have given far more similarities than that. I have shown how it could be considered one nation, how it is based on the same propaganda types as nationalism by creating a "superiority" in the minds of the populace, I have shown how fascism began their propaganda with religious undertones and taught it in school with the book that I gave...

All you have is "No, it's not!"... That isn't logic, it is a silly lazy strawman based on emotional rhetoric.

But it has SIMILARITIES... ignoring them because you don't wish people to use a word is simply fallacious argument not based in logical determination but in emotional rhetoric of your own!

There are similarities between a horse and a cow but you don't interchange the names as you like.

Already answered above.. Argument by repitition is also a logical fallacy, as much as strawmen argument. This is also a simplification strawman... It attempts to simplify the argument into idiotic terms that were not stated from the beginning and is more of the same type of lazy argument you have presented from the beginning.... "No it's not!" is not a logical argument.


The similarites are also similarites shared by other ideologies, monarchies and communism, for example are centralised dictatorships.

Right, but in this case the similarities of fascism are being stressed, not of monarchism...


The truth is, they are better described as Islamic theocrats, simply because they aren't fascists.

The truth is that both terms fit them for different reasons. This insistence that only old terminology must be used is a conservative linguistic stance not one based in logic...



I don't like the term simply because I abhor lazy and cheap rhetoric, which is what this is...


But describing them using a new term inculcating the religious centralism of the movement of centralizing the world under one-world government isn't.

It doesn't describe that. A central dictatorship doesn't make fascism.


No, but the "nationalistic" similarities don't end there, that is another strawman.

Islamic theocracy describes it, Islamic dictatorship describes it.

Nationalistic Islamic Dictatorship describes well what they are trying to build.

Islamofascism doesn't. It is, as I have repeated ad nausium, just poor pathos-based rhetoric designed to create an emotional response.

Islamofascism does describe it well as I have explained above using actual examples. Your "argument by repitition" fallacy notwithstanding I have given reasons why I understand the term to fit well, you have simply given me nothing but strawmen and "not it isn't"...
 
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