How much has Obamacare saved the American people?

Oneuli said:
It's a cost to the government and a savings for the people who are subsidized.
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It is a cost to the taxpayers you brain dead partisan hack. There are no savings; only increased COSTS. Nothing that was promised materialized no matter how much you flail, kick and scream.
 
Cypress said:
Nicely done.

From the human perspective, in my opinion, the most important contribution of Obamacare was to ensure legally that no one could ever be turned down for health insurance, regardless of pre-existing conditions - and even if one had a pre-existing condition, they would not be financially penalized for it. It is hard to believe that we used to be the only developed country on the planet in which there were serious doubts, questions, and financial obstacles in being able to realistically get health insurance - under the old system Republicans preferred.

From the policy perspective, the most progressive contribution of Obamacare was the expansion of Medicaid. Which is really just a first step, hopefully, towards universal single payer health care. Even Red States are now begging for the Obamacare Medicaid expansion, as the election on November 7 demonstrated.
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Psychologically, the inability of insurers to discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions is huge, because it prevents people from effectively becoming medically indentured to their current employer. If you get your insurance through your employer and develop an expensive condition while working there, you can basically get into a situation where your employer can treat you like garbage and there's little you can do about it, practically, since if you leave your employer and have to change insurance, the next insurer can simply refuse to cover that condition.
 
Oneuli said:
What do you think the deficit was when Obama took office? What do you think it was when he left office?
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Looking at a financial crisis spending level and then comparing it to when he left office is absurd. When you look at the average deficit per year by Obama it was insane. Compare it to any other time in history (since you like that).

He racked up at least 4 years of trillion dollar deficit spending. He added $10T to the national debt. More than all other Presidents before him, combined.

Prior to the financial crisis, the national deficit was sub $300B. Then in 2008 it went up to about $460B. Then four straight years of trillion dollar deficits under Obama (the first year 2009, in part due to Bush and part to Obama, but almost all due to financial crisis). .
 
Anyone, ANYONE still defending Obamacare has gone stark raving mad.

your argument on any other subject has been rendered clueless

I'd really just stop
 
Oneuli said:
Obamacare became law in March 2010. Different parts of it went into effect at different periods after that. For example, the provision allowing adult children under age 26 to get on their parents' insurance started to be rolled out immediately, and the deadline for insurers to implement it was September 23, 2010.

If you'd prefer me to use some incorrect starting point, just let me know which wrong date you'd prefer.
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Again, read the link I provided. Fucking parents over and making them continue paying for their adult children was not a plus. It certainly had little effect on the growth rates. Using 2010 is wrong. Period. It rolled out in Oct 2013. Period. That is when the exchanges opened up.

You are using the incorrect starting point. The correct starting point is when the the exchanges opened. That is when the full effect of the law could be seen.
 
Truth Detector said:
Wrong; you keep wanting to move goalposts and construct strawmen while I continue to beat you over the head with FACTS.
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No, the goal posts are right where they started. It's just that you're half a mile away from the football field, hitting undefended layups on an abandoned basketball court, and whining that I'm not trying to stuff your shot. This was never about whether or not Obama's sales pitch was honest. That's an argument you're having with yourself. Have fun with it. Or, when you find your testicles and are ready to talk about the actual issue I brought up, the goal posts will still be waiting for you here.
 
Superfreak said:
Again, read the link I provided. Fucking parents over and making them continue paying for their adult children was not a plus. It certainly had little effect on the growth rates. Using 2010 is wrong. Period. It rolled out in Oct 2013. Period. That is when the exchanges opened up.

You are using the incorrect starting point. The correct starting point is when the the exchanges opened. That is when the full effect of the law could be seen.
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no one forced them to idiot


jeese you are lame anymore
 
Oneuli said:
I can't prove it in the way that you prove something in a controlled experiment. What I can show is that the CBO predicted it would lower the deficit, the deficit actually did end up falling, and total healthcare spending growth slowed to a record low pace. Those are dots that can't be connected in with scientific certainty. So, it's one of those situations where we decide whether to set policy that's in line with the data or whether we should instead set policy with the idea that the data is misleading us. I consider the former to be the more rational way to set policy.
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The deficit did not fall as a result of spending less. Spending increased when Obamacare implementation began in 2013 by $527 BILLION. The deficit decreased as a result of higher revenue.

You really are out of your third grade league when talking about these subjects clueless wonder dunce. There are a lot of dots unconnected in that small brain snowflake.
 
Cypress said:
Nicely done.

From the human perspective, in my opinion, the most important contribution of Obamacare was to ensure legally that no one could ever be turned down for health insurance, regardless of pre-existing conditions - and even if one had a pre-existing condition, they would not be financially penalized for it. It is hard to believe that we used to be the only developed country on the planet in which there were serious doubts, questions, and financial obstacles in being able to realistically get health insurance - under the old system Republicans preferred.

From the policy perspective, the most progressive contribution of Obamacare was the expansion of Medicaid. Which is really just a first step, hopefully, towards universal single payer health care. Even Red States are now begging for the Obamacare Medicaid expansion, as the election on November 7 demonstrated.
Click to expand...

That was the biggest lie of Obamacare; that it would be a solution rather than a jumping off point to a much worse idea; that of Government controlled healthcare.
 
Superfreak said:
Looking at a financial crisis spending level and then comparing it to when he left office is absurd.
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I'm comparing what he inherited to what he left. Now, granted, the fact that his predecessor was a really shitty president who left the nation in a terrible state did mean a lot of statistics, including deficits, were left in a place where it would have been hard for things not to get better. But you could say the same about, say, the elder Bush inheriting a record deficit from his shitty predecessor, Reagan. And yet deficits went higher still during Bush's presidency. So, it's not really foreordained that things would get so much better under Obama.
 
Oneuli said:
Yet, in this case, they projected that Obamacare would push deficits down and then deficit actually fell -- at one of the fastest rates in history, in fact.
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LOL again, the drop in deficit was not due to Obamacare, it happened in SPITE of Obamacare. Had Obamacare not been implemented, the deficit would have dropped faster.

Prior to the financial crisis the deficit in 2008 peaked at $460B. When Obama left office it was $585B. He never got us back under precrisis levels. He had 7 of the 9 highest deficits in US history.
 
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