How much has Obamacare saved the American people?

Oneuli said:
My data is for the entire period, from Obamacare becoming law through November of 2018. As a simple matter of fact, healthcare inflation over that period was significantly lower than over any period of that length before Obamacare became law. As your link points out, "we have not returned to the double-digit increases of the past" and "to date, evidence has shown health spending has slowed since ACA's passage in 2010." Those authors think more is needed in "the next round of health reform" to bend the cost curve. Fine. But so far, it looks like a big improvement.
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"Looks like".
 
Oneuli said:
I calculated them. Just take the most recent CPI:medical and calculate the percentage increase from March 2010 (when Obamacare became law). Now calculate the increase for every other period of that length leading up to that date.
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Obamacare went into effect in October of 2013. So you are using incorrect start point. Which is what I figured you were doing.
 
Truth Detector said:
when the Government subsidizes care for people who don't have it, it is a COST not a savings.
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It's a cost to the government and a savings for the people who are subsidized. The question is whether it was a net savings or not. When you look at wider measures like healthcare inflation or per capita healthcare spending, etc., you'll see the rate of increase slowed considerably. That doesn't mean everyone wound up better off than she would have been. Some were better, some worse. But, on average, we're much better off than we would have been.
 
Oneuli said:
You see, I keep trying to have a discussion about policy (Obamacare), while you'd prefer to gossip about celebrities (Obama). That's fine. There's a place for that gossip. If you are aroused by pointing out instances of Obama being dishonest, feel free. But it's not the point of this thread. This thread is about how much Obamacare has saved the American people.
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Obamacare has cost the American people.




The News & Observer
Obamacare is not the affordable health care we were promised

Americans for Tax Reform
New Report Finds Obamacare Overhead to Cost $273 Billion


The New York Times
Middle-Class Families Confront Soaring Health Insurance Costs


Washington Examiner
Obamacare is now so expensive it keeps patients away from their doctors




https://www.google.com/search?clien.....0.0..82109...0.0..0.0.0.......0.wU4BXjRllQI


Do u need more? There are 100s of links to it costing Americans MORE!
 
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Superfreak said:
Obamacare went into effect in October of 2013. So you are using incorrect start point. Which is what I figured you were doing.
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and insurance companies began to get ready for it by offering better coverage so people wouldn't bail on them when it was implemented


you are just too stupid to understand the whole picture
 
Oneuli said:
It's a cost to the government and a savings for the people who are subsidized. The question is whether it was a net savings or not. When you look at wider measures like healthcare inflation or per capita healthcare spending, etc., you'll see the rate of increase slowed considerably. That doesn't mean everyone wound up better off than she would have been. Some were better, some worse. But, on average, we're much better off than we would have been.
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and some people had their lives saved by the better health care
 
Oneuli said:
My post was about overall healthcare costs, not healthcare premiums specifically. Overall costs, obviously, matter more. If I have a choice between, say, a $2,000 premium that leaves me with $10,000 of out-of-pocket medical expenses, or a $5,000 premium that leaves me with $1,000 of out-of-pocket medical expenses, I'd go for the latter, which costs me half as much, even though the premium is five times as large. What matters is my total spend, not how much spending comes under each heading.
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would you please stop trying to defend a stupid thread, I know it's your thread, but really
 
Legion said:
Prove it.
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I can't prove it in the way that you prove something in a controlled experiment. What I can show is that the CBO predicted it would lower the deficit, the deficit actually did end up falling, and total healthcare spending growth slowed to a record low pace. Those are dots that can't be connected in with scientific certainty. So, it's one of those situations where we decide whether to set policy that's in line with the data or whether we should instead set policy with the idea that the data is misleading us. I consider the former to be the more rational way to set policy.
 
Superfreak said:
Obamacare went into effect in October of 2013. So you are using incorrect start point. Which is what I figured you were doing.
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Obamacare became law in March 2010. Different parts of it went into effect at different periods after that. For example, the provision allowing adult children under age 26 to get on their parents' insurance started to be rolled out immediately, and the deadline for insurers to implement it was September 23, 2010.

If you'd prefer me to use some incorrect starting point, just let me know which wrong date you'd prefer.
 
Oneuli said:
Here's a way to think about the success of Obamacare in slowing healthcare inflation. It's been about eight years and eight months since Obamacare was signed into law. We can compute healthcare inflation for 660 eras of that length leading up to the passage of Obamacare. Among the 660 eras, the lowest healthcare inflation was 30%, the highest was 137%, the average was 64%, and the median was 53%.

So, how has the last eight years and eight months looked in that context? Well, it turns out, healthcare inflation has been 26% -- significantly below the prior record-low for a period of that length. The savings from that low rate of healthcare cost growth is substantial. For example, we spend about $10,224 per capita on healthcare today. If, since Obamacare passed, healthcare costs had risen in accordance with an average rate of inflation rather than the record low rate we've had, it would be $12,898. So, for a family of four, you could think of the difference as a $10,696 of additional healthcare costs, just for a single year. And that figure gets bigger every year that our healthcare spending growth remains below average.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIMEDSL
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Nicely done.

From the human perspective, in my opinion, the most important contribution of Obamacare was to ensure legally that no one could ever be turned down for health insurance, regardless of pre-existing conditions - and even if one had a pre-existing condition, they would not be financially penalized for it. It is hard to believe that we used to be the only developed country on the planet in which there were serious doubts, questions, and financial obstacles in being able to realistically get health insurance - under the old system Republicans preferred.

From the policy perspective, the most progressive contribution of Obamacare was the expansion of Medicaid. Which is really just a first step, hopefully, towards universal single payer health care. Even Red States are now begging for the Obamacare Medicaid expansion, as the election on November 7 demonstrated.
 
Oneuli said:
Yes. We've lost out on the ability to pay much higher overall healthcare costs.
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premiums are up, again

deductibles are up, again,

what on Gods green earth are you talking about?

just stop

Cypress said:
Nicely done.

From the human perspective, in my opinion, the most important contribution of Obamacare was to ensure legally that no one could ever be turned down for health insurance, regardless of pre-existing conditions -
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and no one wants to take that away, the problem with Obamacare is mandating that someone has to buy it, AND that little problem of
no way to pay for it

so educate yourself,
OR
continue babbling CNN talking points.

When you and your fellow nut-bags realize that CNN is nothing but the national enquirer of media, devoid of facts, common sense, and in the interest of the American people and our way of life, then and only then will you have a clue
 
evince said:
and some people had their lives saved by the better health care
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There was an excellent study done regarding Massachusetts when that state implemented what was essentially the same healthcare reform a few years earlier (Romneycare). They used a really clever "synthetic state" analysis to determine Romneycare saved about 320 lives per year:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/p...alth-reform-contributes-to-decline-in-deaths/

We'd expect the same reform to save lives at a higher rate nationally, since Massachusetts already had strong healthcare and high life expectancies before Romneycare, so there weren't as many "low hanging fruit" to pluck there as in the US as a whole. But even just expanding that outward at the same rate, we should expect Obamacare has been saving well over 15,000 lives per year. In other words, it's an equivalent life savings of stopping a 9/11 magnitude terrorist attack every other month.... and all that, while lowering healthcare cost growth. Pretty impressive!
 
Oneuli said:
What do you think the deficit was when Obama took office? What do you think it was when he left office?
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Deficit 2009 = $1.4 trillion.

Deficit 2017 = $664 million.

Total Deficits while Obama was in office = $7.948 trillion.

Debt when Obama entered office = $10.7 trillion
Debt when Obama left office = $19.97 trillion
Increase = $9.27 TRILLION

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/federal-receipt-and-outlay-summary

Obama Has Presided Over 5 of 6 Largest Deficits in U.S. History
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/articl...presided-over-5-6-largest-deficits-us-history
 
Oneuli said:
I can't prove it in the way that you prove something in a controlled experiment. What I can show is that the CBO predicted it would lower the deficit, the deficit actually did end up falling, and total healthcare spending growth slowed to a record low pace. Those are dots that can't be connected in with scientific certainty. So, it's one of those situations where we decide whether to set policy that's in line with the data or whether we should instead set policy with the idea that the data is misleading us. I consider the former to be the more rational way to set policy.
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CBO Budget Projections: After Two Years No Better Than Throwing Darts

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-two-years-no-better-than-throwing-darts/amp/


Learning From CBO's History Of Incorrect ObamaCare Projections


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...story-of-incorrect-obamacare-projections/amp/
 
Oneuli said:
You see, I keep trying to have a discussion about policy (Obamacare), while you'd prefer to gossip about celebrities (Obama). That's fine. There's a place for that gossip. If you are aroused by pointing out instances of Obama being dishonest, feel free. But it's not the point of this thread. This thread is about how much Obamacare has saved the American people.
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Wrong; you keep wanting to move goalposts and construct strawmen while I continue to beat you over the head with FACTS.
 
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