How will Trump's presidency be remembered? Name three things.

[Damocles]

So...let's say that they rush production of this vaccine before it gets approved, then let's say that they rush the approval in haste, then frantically try to distribute this vaccine and the side effects for some people prove fatal, or its efficacy is much lower than what it was in the testing, and the vaccine simply doesn't work.

Should we then turn to Trump and hold him responsible for the vaccine's failure? Or should we hold you responsible? After all, you're propagandizing it here. How many billions were blown on this, and how do we claw those billions back?

You're assuming the vaccine will work. What if it doesn't? Who gets held accountable, then?

I am not assuming anything. I am understanding that the only way to ensure that doses are available immediately if it gets approval is to have it manufactured on a wholesale basis before approval. To get that done entities prepaid so they could begin manufacturing... This is what the Brits did, what the US did, what Germany did... Each pre-paid companies that they thought had the best shot at getting it done.

 

[LV426]

Man, you clearly are stupid. Most vaccines are less than 60% effective. 90% is AMAZINGLY effective. And no Trump didn't "wait too long" it was his actions and effort with Warp Speed that made this possible in the timeframe it happened within.

Well, most of those companies had already been developing the vaccine before April. And had Trump taken this seriously back in 2019, we probably wouldn't have had a pandemic, and we'd all be having Thanksgiving with friends and family right now. But you all didn't want to take this seriously, you didn't want to adhere to the guidelines of the experts, and now you're trying to give Trump credit for something he had no part or hand in doing.

If you want to take an untested and rushed vaccine, go for it. What have you got to lose? Other than you life, of course.

The reality is, you have no idea what you are talking about, don't know anything about this subject, and when folks even provide you information you refuse to actually try to understand it unless it fits your confirmation bias.

Epidemiology is not my forte. However, most of the experts out there will tell you exactly what I'm telling you now; that ramping up production of a vaccine that was rushed through trials is dangerous and potentially wasteful. In reality, it's an attempt to deregulate the safeguards that make vaccines safe for distribution. All Trump has done is up the risk and put a lot on the table on the HOPE and FAITH that it'll all work out.

In the last 4 years, has anything Trump's done "worked out"? No. He failed at everything.

And you've been defending him this whole time.

 

[archives]

The three things President Obama is remembered for is:
He pulled America out of the 2008 Bush/Cheney economic recession.
He implemented the ACA.
He killed Bin Laden.

The three things Donald mini-strokes Trump will be remembered for is:
His impeachment.
Racial tensions.
Failed pandemic response causing hundreds of thousands of American deaths.

Don't need three, one will do, "How will Trump's presidency be remembered?" Simple, not well

 

[Damocles]

Well, most of those companies had already been developing the vaccine before April. And had Trump taken this seriously back in 2019, we probably wouldn't have had a pandemic, and we'd all be having Thanksgiving with friends and family right now. But you all didn't want to take this seriously, you didn't want to adhere to the guidelines of the experts, and now you're trying to give Trump credit for something he had no part or hand in doing.

If you want to take an untested and rushed vaccine, go for it. What have you got to lose? Other than you life, of course.




Epidemiology is not my forte. However, most of the experts out there will tell you exactly what I'm telling you now; that ramping up production of a vaccine that was rushed through trials is dangerous and potentially wasteful. In reality, it's an attempt to deregulate the safeguards that make vaccines safe for distribution. All Trump has done is up the risk and put a lot on the table on the HOPE and FAITH that it'll all work out.

In the last 4 years, has anything Trump's done "worked out"? No. He failed at everything.

And you've been defending him this whole time.

Thankfully we didn't have buyden out there making sure we all had travel between China and the US while failing at doing anything but repeating Trump's plan after it was implemented. Fast tracking testing, tracing, and fast tracking a vaccine... All part of Presumptive President Elect buyden's "Plan" all were already implemented by Trump before he wrote the "plan" in March.

We will have an effective and safe vaccine before the end of this year because of Warp Speed, even though you really hate the man who implemented it.

 

[LV426]

I am not assuming anything.

Well, that's not true, is it? You're assuming that this "warp Speed" joke had some impact on the development of the vaccine, and you also assume that clearing the runway for hasty approvals will mean an effective vaccine will be distributed. Those are not foregone conclusions.

This has a whole "hydroxychloroquine" or "bleach drinking" feel to it. Another magic bullet miracle from Trump that turns out to not be a magic bullet, but a regular one. The problem is that you and Trump have eroded public trust in yourselves, so no one -I REPEAT NO ONE- can take anything you say seriously because you've spent the last 11 months lying your asses off about COVID. So why would lying about "Warp Speed" be any different?

I am understanding that the only way to ensure that doses are available immediately if it gets approval is to have it manufactured on a wholesale basis before approval. To get that done entities prepaid so they could begin manufacturing... This is what the Brits did, what the US did, what Germany did... Each pre-paid companies that they thought had the best shot at getting it done.

We don't need the vaccine immediately if we adhere to the advice of the experts and epidemiologists. They all say that we should be locking down and sheltering-in-place to stop the spread. Rushing a vaccine to production is not going to end well.

You read it here first; a rushed vaccine is not going to be very effective, many folks won't trust it because it was hastily rushed and produced under Trump, and there's no guarantee it would be freely distributed to everyone either.

What's really sad is that Obama's pandemic playbook had a whole plan for vaccine development and distribution. But you and Trump threw it away because Obama did it, and you hate Obama.

 

[Into the Night]

The three things President Obama is remembered for is:
He pulled America out of the 2008 Bush/Cheney economic recession.
He implemented the ACA.
He killed Bin Laden.

The three things Donald mini-strokes Trump will be remembered for is:
His impeachment.
Racial tensions.
Failed pandemic response causing hundreds of thousands of American deaths.

The impeachment was false accusations brought by Democrats and was thrown out by the Senate.
The Democrats are the racists, not Trump.
Trump is not in command of the virus. No one is. No one can be. It just does what it does.

Masks do not stop a virus.
6 feet does not stop a virus.

Idiot governors that shut down their States, requiring masks, and social distancing, are still claiming the infection rate is going up. Why?

 

[Into the Night]

Riots, Covid, the Ukraine scandal.

Democrats caused the riots. They are the ones burning and looting. They are the ones breaking the law.
Covid is not in command of anyone, not even Trump.
The so-called 'Ukraine scandal' is Biden and his son Hunter, not Trump.

You are describing Democrats, not Trump.

 

[Into the Night]

How much did Donald mini-strokes Trump damage the Republican party?

He didn't.

 

[Nordberg]

So... You literally are being deliberately stupid and pretending that you cannot understand that the normal approval process for a vaccine takes years and that Warp Speed changed it so it could be done in months rather than years? You are quite obviously being deliberately obtuse and are incapable of holding an adult conversation on this issue.

Here...

https://www.one.org/us/blog/covid-1...pfMgWEFCTdmW5PZMHVNclezPSS_PQxpBoC1FkQAvD_BwE

How long does it normally take to develop a vaccine?

Research and development of new vaccines can take an average of 10 years under normal circumstances, although some are developed faster as we’ve seen with previous outbreaks. Taking a vaccine from conception to the clinic is usually a long path and for good reason. It is essential to show that vaccines are safe and effective, so they undergo rigorous testing in multiple phases before they reach humans.

You do not know if warp speed did anything. That is a brazen assumption. The manufacturers said it did not. They would not streamline any processes to accommodate Trump's political needs. The first one was made on Germany where Trump and warp had no impact.

 

[Damocles]

Well, that's not true, is it? You're assuming that this "warp Speed" joke had some impact on the development of the vaccine, and you also assume that clearing the runway for hasty approvals will mean an effective vaccine will be distributed. Those are not foregone conclusions.

This has a whole "hydroxychloroquine" or "bleach drinking" feel to it. Another magic bullet miracle from Trump that turns out to not be a magic bullet, but a regular one. The problem is that you and Trump have eroded public trust in yourselves, so no one -I REPEAT NO ONE- can take anything you say seriously because you've spent the last 11 months lying your asses off about COVID. So why would lying about "Warp Speed" be any different?



We don't need the vaccine immediately if we adhere to the advice of the experts and epidemiologists. They all say that we should be locking down and sheltering-in-place to stop the spread. Rushing a vaccine to production is not going to end well.

You read it here first; a rushed vaccine is not going to be very effective, many folks won't trust it because it was hastily rushed and produced under Trump, and there's no guarantee it would be freely distributed to everyone either.

What's really sad is that Obama's pandemic playbook had a whole plan for vaccine development and distribution. But you and Trump threw it away because Obama did it, and you hate Obama.

Again. I am not assuming it, I am actually watching it happen before my very eyes. FDA approval of no less than two vaccines is approaching before the end of this year.

I didn't "throw it away" and that playbook used with H1N1 simply failed, per buyden's own Chief of Staff.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/04/joe-biden-contain-h1n1-virus-232992

Anyway, buyden's plan followed Trump's plan in every way, it even recognized the need to shut down travel... In April... after the cat would have long been out of that bag.

buyden's a bag of fail in a Presumptive President-elect costume. It is my opinion that he'll be able to fool you and a few folks that believe only what their confirmation bias tells them for about 3 months before you start just lying to cover up how embarrassed you are. A 47 year track record of fail and plagiarism.. you can put lipstick on that pig, but it will still be drunk grandpa.

 

[LV426]

Thankfully we didn't have buyden out there making sure we all had travel between China and the US while failing at doing anything but repeating Trump's plan after it was implemented.

So a few things about this bullshit:

1. Trump was one of the LAST leaders to put a "travel ban" on China.

2. Once that "ban" was in place, 40,000+ people came into the country from China, weren't tested, weren't screened, weren't traced, and weren't mandated to go into quarantine.

3. Most of the infected came from Europe, not China...that's why NYC was a hotspot at the beginning...travel from Europe, which Trump was also slow to ban. Instead, European countries banned *us*.

4. His ban was xenophobic because he made exceptions for US citizens. And it didn't work anyway because travelers from China would just travel to a country that DIDN'T have a ban from the US, and they'd get into the US that way. 400,000 people have come from China since the start of this pandemic in that manner. None of them were tested or quarantined.

5. By the time the travel ban went into effect it was already too late; the virus was here, undetected, and spreading uncontrolled.

6. From January through February, Trump was on TV and on Twitter singing Xi's and China's praises...tweeting that they had it under control, were doing a good job, etc. If you want me to post the tweets, I can. But I'm sure you've seen them already. So why was Trump fawning over Xi for the first two months of this year???? Could his secret Chinese bank account have something to do with it?

 

[BartenderElite]

Again. I am not assuming it, I am actually watching it happen before my very eyes. FDA approval of no less than two vaccines is approaching before the end of this year.

I didn't "throw it away" and that playbook used with H1N1 simply failed, per buyden's own Chief of Staff.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/04/joe-biden-contain-h1n1-virus-232992

Anyway, buyden's plan followed Trump's plan in every way, it even recognized the need to shut down travel... In April... after the cat would have long been out of that bag.

buyden's a bag of fail in a Presumptive President-elect costume. It is my opinion that he'll be able to fool you and a few folks that believe only what their confirmation bias tells them for about 3 months before you start just lying to cover up how embarrassed you are. A 47 year track record of fail and plagiarism.. you can put lipstick on that pig, but it will still be drunk grandpa.

Cliches.

I wasn't excited about Biden the candidate. As President Elect, he has shown me much more.

We have seen more calm leadership, empathy and general "Presidential skills" the past week+ than we have in 4 years. He's pulling together a smart team of people who are actually experienced and qualified, and handling Trump's tantrum like a pro.

 

[Damocles]

You do not know if warp speed did anything. That is a brazen assumption. The manufacturers said it did not. They would not streamline any processes to accommodate Trump's political needs. The first one was made on Germany where Trump and warp had no impact.

I know for a fact that it took what is normally an average of 8 year process (10 if you go by the article I posted earlier) and turned it into approval pending in less than 7 months...

that is not assumption, it is real, factual, and it happened before your very eyes. And Warp Speed did too have an impact, phase 3 testing happened here, in the US in less than 5 months after implementation because of the regulatory burden removed from their path and for no other reason. Without Warp Speed we'd still be waiting for phase 2 testing regardless of how effective it would be. As part of Warp Speed it pre paid for doses to be manufactured as it went through testing so that there would be an immediate impact with doses ready to be delivered immediately after approval. (rehashing this thread, because you apparently can't read).

The reality is we would not be seeing two of these vaccines ready to go by the end of this year without Warp Speed even if they did not take government grants which is the only part of Warp Speed that Pfizer didn't benefit from.

 

[LV426]

Fast tracking testing, tracing, and fast tracking a vaccine... All part of Presumptive President Elect buyden's "Plan" all were already implemented by Trump before he wrote the "plan" in March.

Oy vey...

There has never been a national fast-tracking testing or tracing in the US. The reason is because Trump is too lazy and disinterested to care...that's why he ceded all those responsibilities on the individual states and governors instead of taking a strong federal approach like Obama did when Ebola and Zika came to our shores.

Biden's plan has one major difference with Trump's; it's not political.

 

[LV426]

We will have an effective and safe vaccine before the end of this year because of Warp Speed, even though you really hate the man who implemented it.

No we won't. We're not getting any vaccine until the Spring, at best. And even then, it's questionable.

I know you so very badly want this vaccine to magically appear and for it to be effective, because you need to credit Trump with some kind of victory from this disaster of a Presidency, no matter how pyrrhic it may be.

 

[Damocles]

So a few things about this bullshit:

1. Trump was one of the LAST leaders to put a "travel ban" on China.

Yet your beloved drunken grandpa told us that it was Xenophobia to even think about that ban and only recognized that the BAN was necessary in April... more than 3 months AFTER it was implemented.

2. Once that "ban" was in place, 40,000+ people came into the country from China, weren't tested, weren't screened, weren't traced, and weren't mandated to go into quarantine.

3. Most of the infected came from Europe, not China...that's why NYC was a hotspot at the beginning...travel from Europe, which Trump was also slow to ban. Instead, European countries banned *us*.

Now this is inane BS. Europe was upset because the ban hammer came down on travel from Europe without Consultation with them. They did not implement travel bans first like you pretend.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...s-chaos-eu-says-it-wasnt-warned-of-travel-ban

Notice how there were folks left stranded in the US as our ban went both ways...

For example: "Sitting at Atlanta airport after abandoning my flight to France late last night," tweeted reporter Jennifer Berry Hawes of Charleston, S.C.'s The Post and Courier.

4. His ban was xenophobic because he made exceptions for US citizens. And it didn't work anyway because travelers from China would just travel to a country that DIDN'T have a ban from the US, and they'd get into the US that way. 400,000 people have come from China since the start of this pandemic in that manner. None of them were tested or quarantined.

Which doesn't change that even buyden recognized it was necessary, 3 months later after that cat would have been long out of the bag.

5. By the time the travel ban went into effect it was already too late; the virus was here, undetected, and spreading uncontrolled.

Yet it still would have been worse if we waited until April like buyden wanted.

6. From January through February, Trump was on TV and on Twitter singing Xi's and China's praises...tweeting that they had it under control, were doing a good job, etc. If you want me to post the tweets, I can. But I'm sure you've seen them already. So why was Trump fawning over Xi for the first two months of this year???? Could his secret Chinese bank account have something to do with it?

I read the Tweets, hated them. But saying "Trump did this" doesn't change that buyden didn't have a plan until after Trump's plan, and his plan simply repeated Trump's actually implemented plan. It was inane.

Nor does it change the truth... Warp Speed gave us vaccines in record time.

 

[Damocles]

Oy vey...

There has never been a national fast-tracking testing or tracing in the US. The reason is because Trump is too lazy and disinterested to care...that's why he ceded all those responsibilities on the individual states and governors instead of taking a strong federal approach like Obama did when Ebola and Zika came to our shores.

Biden's plan has one major difference with Trump's; it's not political.

Just repeating that doesn't change that it is happening, nor does it change the three things I pointed out as three of the things that Trump will be remembered for. LOL. This has gone well off the topic. Nor will it change your mind as it does not fit within your confirmation bias. Personally I have never liked Trump, everything I say is said even though I dislike him.

 

[LV426]

Again. I am not assuming it, I am actually watching it happen before my very eyes. FDA approval of no less than two vaccines is approaching before the end of this year.

*Rushed approvals. I'm not taking a vaccine that's been rushed through the approval process to feed Trump's ego, and I think tens of millions of other people (80M at least, to be sure) feel the same.

I didn't "throw it away" and that playbook used with H1N1 simply failed, per buyden's own Chief of Staff.

Wow, you're fucking stupid and ill-informed.

So H1N1 hit in 2009 and in 2009, Obama was using Bush the Dumber's (you remember him? He was your favorite President before Trump came along and you got Bushnesia) pandemic playbook that they developed after SARS. After H1N1, the Obama Administration was so rattled by the pandemic that they threw Bush the Dumber's playbook out and created a brand new one. That brand new playbook was put into effect when Ebola came to our shores in 2014, and then it was used again when Zika came in 2015.

So now you're conflating playbooks and messing up the timeline because, in true Conservative fashion, you sloppily and hastily respond to a thread which has the only effect of eroding our trust in you.

If you cannot get the basic timeline right, how the fuck are you expected to get the vaccine timeline right? I mean shit, dude...you're really fucking off.

 

[LV426]

Anyway, buyden's plan followed Trump's plan in every way, it even recognized the need to shut down travel... In April... after the cat would have long been out of that bag.

No it didn't. Not at all. It's the same in that it's a plan, but that's it. Trump didn't have a plan. His plan was to cede responsibility to governors. That's why we have a pandemic now.

All thanks to you.

 

[LV426]

buyden's a bag of fail in a Presumptive President-elect costume. It is my opinion that he'll be able to fool you and a few folks that believe only what their confirmation bias tells them for about 3 months before you start just lying to cover up how embarrassed you are. A 47 year track record of fail and plagiarism.. you can put lipstick on that pig, but it will still be drunk grandpa.

250,000+ people have died, 30M have lost their jobs, 25M have lost their health care, and 11.5M now have a preexisting condition because you and Trump couldn't stop lying.