I Agree With The Founders About Healthcare

[LV426]

My post was in response to a comment about Canadians being happy with their healthcare system--I simply said some were not. I said nothing about the U. S. system or comparisons with Canada.

You said "some" were not. But you didn't really go into detail about who those "some" are and what specific care they're coming here for. Also, when they come here, do they enroll in an insurance plan or do they pay cash? Well-to-do Canadians probably come here for mostly experimental or elective surgeries, but when they do they're not paying premiums to Aetna.

That's why I never buy these phony baloney Conservative arguments about wealthy Canadians seeking experimental or elective treatment in the US; because you leave those details out and try to manipulate people into thinking the average Canadian has to wait for medical care. Facts are they don't, but Conservatives have been lying about it since forever. So why do you all lie about it? Simple; you're scared that a single payer system will somehow result in you losing something. Reality is that you don't lose anything by everyone having access to health care. In fact, you benefit because you end up paying less for single payer than you'd pay for private insurance premiums, deductibles, copays, coinsurance, hospital fees, ambulance fees, and prescription drug costs.

 

[LV426]

Canadians seeking healthcare abroad: 50,000 out of 36 million. 0.0013%
Americans seeking healthcare abroad: 1.4 million of 300,000000 0.0046%

So thanks for proving a higher % of Americans seek medical care abroad.

Now, an interesting thing that you left out would be what is the affluence of the Americans seeking medical care abroad vs. Canadians. For instance, are you lumping in Canadians who seek elective or experimental treatments in the US, which they pay for in cash, in with Americans who seek medical care abroad because they cannot afford the care here?

It's not even apples-to-apples and I think you know that, which is why all of this is very vague and ambiguous.

About 800,000 international medical tourists go to the U. S. annually.

And when they do, are they enrolling in Aetna? Are they paying co-pays? Or are they affluent people with cash to spend? It's the last one, isn't it? That's a lot different than someone in New Hampshire driving across the Canadian border to get cheaper prescription drugs, right? So not all medical tourism is the same. You didn't make that distinction in your post, which leads me to think your post is bullshit and you are acting in bad faith.

 

[LV426]

The way LV made it out, everyone was going outside the country.

I never made it out like that, so this is you lying again about what someone else says because you're an insecure piece of white trash.

The Canadians seeking treatment in the US aren't enrolling in health insurance, they're not paying co-pays. They're largely wealthy Canadians coming for elective and/or experimental treatment. They're not coming across the border because it's cheaper than Canada, like Americans do in the reverse. You understand that, right? That someone coming from Canada to get an elective procedure is wholly different than someone coming from America to buy cheaper drugs. Like, you understand the distinctive difference, right? Right? Or are you playing obtuse, which would belie an insecurity?

 

[LV426]

All that cut/paste has nothing to do with your fag buddy LV's implication that people going out of the country for care was widespread.

I never implied that you piece of shit. You inferred that because you wanted to frame the debate in a certain way like the entitled brat you are.

What a fucking loser.

 

[LV426]

Did he say that? You mealy mouthed that last time I asked. And by the way, you just accepted that we have the shittiest healthcare system amongst advanced post-industrial nations.

Of course I didn't say that. I never even implied it. CFM lies about what other people say because CFM isn't secure in his own shitty arguments.

 

[LV426]

You left a shit trail when you let LV fuck you in the ass?

Kill yourself.

Seriously.

There is nothing of value you contribute to the world. You lie about yourself, then screech like a baby when called on your bullshitting. You regularly make things up, you incorrectly infer things from other people's posts, and you construct straw men.

You're pathetic. A total con job.

 

[LV426]

Jefferson and Madison disagrees with you.

They're dead. And have been for hundreds of years.

Just curious, do you apply 18th century thinking to the rest of your life, or just the parts where you think you have an argument to make on anonymous message boards?

 

[LV426]

How does that make it constitutional? please post the Constitutional article or amendment that authorizes it. The tenth amendment forbids it.

General Welfare clause.

Eat shit.

 

[LV426]

It may be, but the Constitution doesn't recognize it as general welfare authorized for action by a federal government program. However, it does recognize it as a power of the several states and the people to deal with. (see the Constitution)

No, you mean you don't think the Constitution recognizes it. And we've come to find out your opinion carries absolutely no legal weight on the message board. In fact, your entire position in this debate hinges on other people accepting your premise that "General welfare" doesn't include health care. And the argument you make is tenuous as best and for some reason goes to the 10th Amendment which is superseded by the General Welfare clause.

There is nothing that says the Conservative position on "General welfare" is correct. And you trot out half quotes from dead men from 230 years ago, while ignoring all the founder arguments to the opposite position. So you're only presenting half of half of the argument and framing it as the whole argument.

Bitch move.

 

[LV426]

The general welfare as authorized by the Constitution as a power of the federal government are solely only those things enumerated in article one, section eight of the Constitution or other powers authorized to the feds by amendments to the Constitution. (see a copy of the Constitution) read it and be enlightened!

General Welfare clause is in Article 1, you phony.

 

[Adolf_Twitler]

No, those folks go to Mexico for care and drugs. People in New Hampshire, Maine, Michigan, New York, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and pretty much everywhere north of the Mason-Dixon line and East of the Mississippi goes up to Canada.

How many Americans, in your mind, go abroad for medical care? Have you ever posed that question to yourself? Of course not, because you're a lazy and sloppy person who is more consumed with how people perceive you than what the truth actually is. That's why you lie about yourself on message boards; you want people to think you're better than you actually are. What a phony. What a coward. What a loser.

Exactly! Have you seen the amount of people now using their vacations to go down to Cancun and have their dental work done at the same time. Dental Implants cost about 1/3rd the cost there, compared to prices in the GOOD OLE US of A!

And foreigners that have settled here in the GOOD OLE US of A, write their relatives, send them money to buy their prescriptions there and have their relatives mail their prescriptions back here to the GOOD OLE US of A, because they cost about 1/10th the cost there vs. what they cost here in the Good Ole US of A. Amazing, since the manufacturers of these pharmaceuticals are based and owned right here in the GOOD OLE US of A!

What we are doing here in the GOOD OLE US of A, is ripping off the American Consumers of Healthcare, Healthscare (Intentionally misspelled) Insurance, and pharmaceuticals! Our politicians are being bought and sold to be sent to Washington DC to carry this out by the fatcats that are running the Healthcare and pharmaceutical Industry scams here in the GOOD OLE US of A.

And, every 5th grader in the GOOD OLE US of A has already figured this out!

By the time our current 5th graders become eligible to vote- there won't be a Republican left on the planet!

 

[Robo]

You swallow falacies by the truickload. Over a million Americans do Medical Tourism every year. They abroad for healthcare for financial reasons and get equal or better care. American healthcare is rated at the bottiom among industrial states.

If I was touting the virtues of America's healthcare system, I wouldn't have ever started this thread and suggested the federal government should butt out of it because their insane efforts thus far have been absurd to say the least and downright criminal to say the most. I'm simply arguing that it's "BECAUSE" of the federal government that America's healthcare sucks!

Actually Canadians DO come to America for "CRITICAL" life saving operations, because cash from rich Canadians with heart disease and cancer can't "afford" to wait 3 months for treatment and the UK ships many if not most of its critical operations to India because of a severe shortage of doctors and modern up to date medical equipment.

Americans do not get quick healthcare either. I call my doctor and I have 3 or 4 weeks before I can get in. Call a specialist and it can be months to get seen.

You do understand the difference between 3 or 4 " weeks" and 3 or 4 "months," right?

This says that healthcare in countries with universal healthcare should logically be longer wait times because of the take care of all their citizens.

Precisely one major issue with single payer. Others are the high taxation and often rundown facilities. The BIGGEST thing single payer has going for it is the fact that most single payer countries are a fraction of the size of the United States population and they don't have to contribute a large share of their GDP to their national defense. They rely on NATO and the United States Of America to protect them. The U.S.A. supplies several times the % of America's GDP to defend ourselves and those NATO dues cheating Europeans who brag about single payer healthcare because it's a larger % of their GDP than their national defense.

I live outside Detroit and many Americans have gone to Canada for hernia operations and for eye surgeries. You just get used to that.

If you say so.

 

[Robo]

How do you figure that?

Do you understand the concept of health insurance? Doesn't seem like you do. Do you understand the function an insurance company serves? Again, doesn't seem like you do.






This is a lie. An insidious lie. They're not coming here for "critical" operations, they coming here for elective procedures. And when they do come here, are they enrolling in health insurance? No. They're spending money out of pocket.

That's what you say, I disagree!

 

[Old Trapper]

CFM can now shut the fuck up forever.

Ain't never going to happen. He lives to have people argue with his fat, lazy, ass like you do. In fact, if he is a "working man" as he claims then why is he wasting so much of his employers time in this forum? You were right when you said he is a loser, and I would bet he lives off his mama's health insurance while living in her basement.

 

[Boris The Animal]

LOL!

No, it's not a state issue and you can't explain how the Constitution says it is.

A virus doesn't give a shit if you're in Texas or Maine. Diabetes is the same in New Hampshire as it is in California.

Health care is a national issue because cancer doesn't recognize state borders.

So as a Communist shithead, you want a cookie cutter approach across the country? I think I'll take freedom and individual liberty instead of the Communism you want, Ghetto trash scumbag.

 

[Robo]

Like Medicare or Tricare; both government-provided, and both have portability.

NEXT!

But you still can't tell us WHY a single state program WOULDN'T have portability, huh? Interesting!

 

[Fentoine Lum]

https://www.the-hospitalist.org/hospitalist/article/123117/mental-health-colonial-america

Mental Health in Colonial America

Thus, things had come full circle. Due to the political upheaval, mental healthcare had returned to pre-Revolutionary War conditions. Despite continued interest in the “moral management” methods of treatment, the political times could not provide the support.

As is so common today, the struggle between idealism and practicality was clearly reflected in the patients’ treatments and lives. Though the pendulum did swing back, bringing better treatment for the mentally ill, we continue to seek this fine balance.

I think we all know some americans agree with the founders, that only wealthy white males of the aristocracy should have representation in the political system.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

But you still can't tell us WHY a single state program WOULDN'T have portability, huh? Interesting!

Within what, that state?

 

[Boris The Animal]

The other part of the problem is if you force government run healthcare on us, say goodbye to new life saving innovations and R&D because the profit motive which is essential to any research, will be gone.

 

[Old Trapper]

That's what you say, I disagree!

It is called "Medical Tourism". Look it up.