I Agree With The Founders About Healthcare

iewitness said:
who are you ? where are you ? what time is it in your mind ? will you say the name of "the one true god"? I think you are antichrist. will you replace Yeshua ?
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Sounds like you think you already have. Then too, you did vote for an anti-Christ.

Romans 1: 20-32

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
 
Old Trapper said:
Tell us, until 1965, or the 13th. Amendment, where did the Constitution ban slavery?
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It did not ban slavery.....because slavery was legal. FYI: in a FREE REPUBLIC.....the people make the laws, they made slavery legal. How dense are you? The constitution is a negative document.....it was created to protect the states/people from the central government. The Constitution is simply a contract among the states. Why would the states ban slavery when the majority of the people endorsed slavery at that time? When the people evolved, the constitution evolved. The truth contained in the declaration of independence....ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL was true when it was written and remained true.....that truth never evolved, THE PEOPLE/society evolved to accept slavery as being immoral and the majority drafted an amendment to insure that slavery would remain illegal.

Could the constitution help it if the DEMOCRATS of the slavery period owned over 4,000,000 human beings and voted to retain slavery as a legal form of business? The better question is why do you not document an example of one REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE who owned a slave during this time period? Just one, what you will find is the fact that all 4million slaves were owned by DEMOCRATS.....in both the south and the north. Thus, the civil war was a revolution between Republicans and Democrats.....one wanted to cease the sale and ownership of people as a legal endeavor....the other (the democrats) demanded the republicans retain the rule of law that made flesh peddling legal. The republicans did not have the numbers to legally end slavery.....so they gave the democrats of that time period an attitude adjustment.
 
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Robo said:
“Edmund Pendleton (September 9, 1721 – October 23, 1803) was a 1. Virginia planter, politician, lawyer and judge. He served in the Virginia legislature before and during the American Revolutionary War, rising to the position of Speaker. “ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Pendleton

Pendleton was a “State” representative. His welfare for the poor qwas a “state” proposal. I found nowhere where he suggested an American Federal government introduce such legislation or claim it would be constitutional as a federal law.
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Federal funding, local control. Did you bother to read the article in my signature?

https://www.dailysignal.com/2015/05/30/the-founders-model-of-welfare-actually-reduced-poverty/
 
Ralph said:
It did not ban slavery.....because slavery was legal. FYI: in a FREE REPUBLIC.....the people make the laws, they made slavery legal. How dense are you? The constitution is a negative document.....it was created to protect the states/people from the central government. The Constitution is simply a contract among the states. Why would the states ban slavery when the majority of the people endorsed slavery at that time? When the people evolved, the constitution evolved. The truth contained in the declaration of independence....ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL was true when it was written and remained true.....that truth never evolved, THE PEOPLE/society evolved to accept slavery as being immoral and the majority drafted an amendment to insure that slavery would remain illegal.

Could the constitution help it if the DEMOCRATS of the slavery period owned over 4,000,000 human being and voted to retain slavery as a legal form of business? The better question is why do you not document an example of one REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE who owned a slave during this time period? Just one, what you find is the fact that all 4million slaves were owned by DEMOCRATS.....in both the south and the north. Thus, the civil war was a revolution between Republicans and Democrats.....one wanted to cease the sale and ownership of people as a legal endeavor....the other (the democrats) demanded the republicans retain the rule of law that made flesh peddling legal.
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You really are quite the fool. When asked about slavery and the Constitution, you ignorantly said: "It allowed slavery? Hardly the truth.". Now you want to say that the people allowed it to be legal? No fool, the Founders at the time made a compromise with the South to keep the nation together. That was how slavery was made legal. Not by the people as you foolishly claim. With your liomited knowledge, and intellect, we now find out that Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, etc. were all Democrats.

Then too, you ignore the reality that over 10,000 Blacks owned slaves. Then you forget the slavery practiced by Native Americans. Boston, that haven for Democrats, was a major slave trading community.

You really are stupid.

Slaveholders among prominent Founding Fathers
slaveholders1 non-slaveholders
Founding Father state
Charles Carroll Maryland
Samuel Chase Maryland
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania
Button Gwinnett Georgia
John Hancock Massachusetts
Patrick Henry Virginia
John Jay New York
Thomas Jefferson Virginia
Richard Henry Lee Virginia
James Madison Virginia
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania
Edward Rutledge South Carolina
George Washington Virginia


non-slaveholders
Founding Father state
John Adams Massachusetts
Samuel Adams Massachusetts
Oliver Ellsworth Connecticut
Alexander Hamilton New York
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts
Thomas Paine Pennsylvania
Roger Sherman Connecticut
 
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Robo said:
Who gives a bleep about the rightwing or leftwing? The issue and subject matter of this thread, is the constitutional way to solve the nation's bleeped up healthcare system that has been established as nothing less than a truckload of garbage controlled by BIG medical insurance co's and BIG Phrma.
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The takings clause. The government has to take hospitals, etc from the owners first. Anything else is another government subsidy to big business. You cannot contain costs otherwise.
 
Old Trapper said:
You really are quite the fool. When asked about slavery and the Constitution, you ignorantly said: "It allowed slavery? Hardly the truth.". Now you want to say that the people allowed it to be legal? No fool, the Founders at the time made a compromise with the South to keep the nation together. That was how slavery was made legal. Not by the people as you foolishly claim. With your liomited knowledge, and intellect, we now find out that Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton, etc. were all Democrats.

Then too, you ignore the reality that over 10,000 Blacks owned slaves. Then you forget the slavery practiced by Native Americans. Boston, that haven for Democrats, was a major slave trading community.

You really are stupid.
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The constitution did not ALLOW slavery. The STATES/PEOPLE who drafted this contract among themselves...(wink, wink) ALLOWED SLAVERY to exist as a legal business.....with all the slave owners being DEMOCRATS. ;) You do comprehend the fact that the US CONSTITUTION was "ratified" by the STATES with a 75% super majority vote? And....the only way to change/amend the actual words in that contract among the states is through the same process......a 75% supermajority vote from the states/people? :palm: As I asked......how dense are you? The United States of America actually existed for over a decade before the constitution was ever ratified. It was the declaration of independence that was the legal document that created the United States of America in 1776 …..the constitution was not ratified until 1788. What? Are you suggesting that slavery did not exist prior to 1788?
 
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Robo said:
Actually I think the founding principles had it right and it's the only actual constitutional way to go related to healthcare.

The founding principle was and is supposed to still be that the several states would act as a laboratory with the end result being the best, better solution for everything by the trial and error system. That's why amendment 10 to our constitution gives most powers to the states and or the people. The founders determined that government closest to the people would be more responsible by definition, i.e. the state government and or local government as opposed to the remote national government'


Thus, healthcare should be the power and determination of every individual state government, local government and the people of the particular state. Thus. the best healthcare will eventually rise to the top and thereby be adopted by every state likely with revisions therewith to accord with particular conditions of each particular state. Folks that didn't like a particular state's healthcare system could simply vote with their feet and move to another state where they would consider themselves better served.


This is what the founders envisioned and delivered constitutionally, "The Several State Laboratory" to establish free market solutions, preserve freedom and incorporate the best/better ideas.

BTW, every state and local government should have the unconditional right and power to negotiate any and all healthcare insurance policies and drug prices with insurance companies and BIG pharmaceutical companies.

Just sayin!
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They did? So why did they include a clause in the US Constitution giving the Federal Government the specific authority to regulate interstate commerce?

Oh and who were these monolithic founding fathers who were in absolute agreement about everything written in the Constitution who all had the exact same intent? Can you point them all out to me?

Have you even bothered to read the US Constitution?
 
Ralph said:
The constitution did not ALLOW slavery. The STATES/PEOPLE who drafted this contract among themselves...(wink, wink) ALLOWED SLAVERY to exist as a legal business.....with all the slave owners being DEMOCRATS.
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This is the kind of hypocrisy, and ignorance, most often associated with the right wing, and it is that same ignorance that makes the right wing ideology such a threat to a free country. Slavery was "allowed" to exist as what was called the "Great Compromise" to keep the Union together. The writers, and signers, of the Constitution (all 55 of them) agreed to this tactic. And unlike the beliefs of liars, and revisionists, not all were Democrats. And, as 55 people represented the entirety of the population at the time, to ignorantly declare that all of the States, or the people, wrote the Constitution, and thus all were in agreement, is as ignorant as saying that the laws written today are agreed upon by all of the people. Yes, slavery was legal in the country until 1865 (with the passing of the 13th. Amendment), and it took another 100 years before the Civil Rights Act was passed. Then too, the Declaration of Independence did not establish the United States. That was done in 1774 with the formation of the First Continental Congress. The Declaration of Independence was a proclamation of separation from the controls of Britain, and even that was not supported by a majority of the people. Then too, a super majority is 66% (2/3's) not 75%.

But then the ignorant fool goes on in a childish attempt to prove his "superior knowledge" never understanding, nor is he capable of understanding, how really stupid he is.

https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/constitution-day/ratification.html
 
Old Trapper said:
Sounds like you think you already have. Then too, you did vote for an anti-Christ.

Romans 1: 20-32

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
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Ok, old crapper, this is the last time i will respond to your inanity:: I did not vote for anyone. I am a witness; I do not partake of the beast, I testify against it. As to Romans 1 ; apparently you erroneously apply that scripture to "Trump voters". This application of scripture reveals your total ignorance of New testament Epistles and is evidence of an acute, advanced case of TDS. Perhaps your name should be "old sicko". Anyway, your opinion does not count and all your posts are shit to be disregarded. I will ignore you now so as to maintain a bit of peace. I will not bother you.
 
CFM said:
So the patients don't actually get to negotiate? Interesting how you're willing to let someone make decisions for you. Jealous and lazy is no way to go through life, boy.
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I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse because you don't want to have an honest debate about this.

You act exclusively in bad faith.
 
CFM said:
I have what you don't have and said you wished you did. Apparently you think whining will make it better.
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You have someone else paying for your health care while opposing a single payer system that everyone pays into.
 
CFM said:
If you want me to fuck off, step up, be a man, and back up the demand, son.
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All you do on these boards is spin lies about yourself to lend your shitty arguments credibility they don't otherwise have.

Then you bristle and whine and screech whenever anyone calls you out on your bullshit.

Nah bruh...you made the wild claim about yourself, so you have to back it up.

Seems to me your strategy is to act exclusively in bad faith to conceal the truth of who and what you truly are.


You don't have to believe me
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No, see, in order for your argument to carry any credibility I have to believe you because you've made yourself and your personal circumstances the central point of your argument. So if I don't accept your bullshit that you benefited from the Russia Tax Cut, suddenly you have nothing to show in support of that policy. It's just your word, and your word is worth nothing here.

So your style is to make a wild claim about yourself in lieu of actual verifiable data that can support your position in favor of the Russia Tax Cut.

No one believes you, man. And the fact that your entire argument hinges on people buying into the lies about yourself, tells me that you will never be able to produce any sort of verifiable data in support of your pro-Russia Tax Cut position.

You are a poseur. A phony. A fraud.

And you know it.
 
CFM said:
Are you saying someone from Florida drove or flew to Canada and bought medications? Texas? Any state along the gulf coast?
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No, those folks go to Mexico for care and drugs. People in New Hampshire, Maine, Michigan, New York, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and pretty much everywhere north of the Mason-Dixon line and East of the Mississippi goes up to Canada.

How many Americans, in your mind, go abroad for medical care? Have you ever posed that question to yourself? Of course not, because you're a lazy and sloppy person who is more consumed with how people perceive you than what the truth actually is. That's why you lie about yourself on message boards; you want people to think you're better than you actually are. What a phony. What a coward. What a loser.
 
iewitness said:
Ok, old crapper, this is the last time i will respond to your inanity:: I did not vote for anyone. I am a witness; I do not partake of the beast, I testify against it. As to Romans 1 ; apparently you erroneously apply that scripture to "Trump voters". This application of scripture reveals your total ignorance of New testament Epistles and is evidence of an acute, advanced case of TDS. Perhaps your name should be "old sicko". Anyway, your opinion does not count and all your posts are shit to be disregarded. I will ignore you now so as to maintain a bit of peace. I will not bother you.
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If you did not vote, or participate in the process, why are you whining in this forum? As to your being a "witness", a witness to what? God says we are not witnesses, we are to be "Watchman", and warn others of their misdeeds. Then too, your reference to the fake symptoms of "TDS" only shows the lie you are stating in that you are obviously a Trump sycophant. A "witness" would be non-partisan, not a partisan hack.

As to my knowledge of scripture, so far all you have done is whine about it, and shown nothing to support your anti-Christ POV.

2 Timothy 4: 1-4

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
 
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