I wish Iraq WAS like vietnam!

Astonishing. Dixie admits his War was a mistake, and if he had to do it all over again, he would want Democrats in control of congress back in 2002, to stop Bush's war - read on:


Dixie: "There is no way to turn back the hands of time, and not go into Iraq, if we could do that, and voting for Democrats would make that happen, I would probably vote Democrat!
 
no...we are fighting in the middle of a indiginous sunni-shiite civil war. Our presence does nothing good and much harm..... and we didn't LOSE Vietnam...the people of South Vietnam did not care to fight for their own corrupt government. If anyone "lost" in Vietnam - besides the families of the 56K Americans of my generation who died there for NOTHING - it was the South Vietnamese who lost their will to be independent of the North - if they ever really had such will to begin with.
 
Cypress said:
Astonishing. Dixie admits his War was a mistake, and if he had to do it all over again, he would want Democrats in control of congress back in 2002, to stop Bush's war - read on:


Dixie: "There is no way to turn back the hands of time, and not go into Iraq, if we could do that, and voting for Democrats would make that happen, I would probably vote Democrat!
Click to expand...


Well, I stand behind what I said, in the context I said it. I don't know how you derived the interpretation you assigned to what I said. The point is, we can't NOT go into Iraq now! There is no way to Un-go into Iraq! If voting for Dems could make that happen, I might support them, because I certainly do wish we didn't have this war going on right now, just like everyone in America wishes we didn't have this war going on.

Unless you are Alice in Wonderland, I don't think it's possible to go back in time and make the decision to go into Iraq any different, if I were Alice, I might vote Democrat! I'm not, this is not fantasy land, and the reality is, we are IN Iraq, and we can't just abandon it now. You could convince me to hate GWB until the day he dies for getting us into Iraq, we still are in Iraq and will be there, until we secure victory, because we can't afford to lose.

The point I am trying to get you to understand is, it doesn't really matter whether we shoulda gone into Iraq, or whether it was wise, or why it was a bad idea, or why GWB is the worst president ever.... none of that frickin matters now! Can you comprehend this? Does this get through your pinheads?

For America to get behind and embrace your position on Iraq, you are going to have to articulate a plan for winning in Iraq, and it needs to be something other than what is being done presently. Simply insisting you can do it better and smarter, is not an answer either. The real problem is, you don't have a plan for a war you never supported, and everyone knows that. It's not going to be a shocker when the next Democrat in charge abandons Iraq and causes the middle east to collapse to terrorism, where you will blame Bush again, I am sure.
 
Dixie said:
Regardless of the fact of whether or not you think Iraq was a wise move, we are there now, engaged in a battle the Islamofascists describe as the central front of the war, so we have to make prudent decisions about future direction. It's simply not enough, to continue to yammer about why we shouldn't have done it, we have already done it. There is no way to turn back the hands of time, and not go into Iraq, if we could do that, and voting for Democrats would make that happen, I would probably vote Democrat! The facts of life are, we are in Iraq now, fighting a war with radical Islamic Fundamentalists who will be strengthened by us leaving and quiting the war now. This is not a viable option, regardless of who is in power, becuase the end result will be far more American casualties down the road. We have to prevail here, regardless of how invested in defeat the Democrats are, we simply can't afford to lose this one, like we did in Vietnam.
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But can we win ?
and if so what is the definition of winning ?
 
I refuse to "embrace " any position on iraq at this point. All we can do is cut our losses and get out in my opinion. I do not even "embrace" pulling out, all options suck at this point, but we must do something. I am in favor of a setting a pullout schedule and sticking to it. But I don't even "embrace" that.
 
"winning" in Iraq is impossible unless we change the definition of winning. We will never be able to stay there long enough to stop the insurgency from consuming the country in a violent and deadly civil war. We may be able to limit the carnage of that civil war by doing OUR part and stop providing the added impetus for the insurgency - on both sides - to continue to escalate. Withdraw to the periphery. Work the diplomatic angles with a vengeance. Bring sunnis and shiites together and keep the pressure on both sides to find paths to peace. As long as we remain, we are a crutch for the shiites and an irritant for the sunnis. Staying the course only means continuing to perpetuate that role and to continue to facilitate the rapidly escalating violence which is almost at a point already where it is self sustaining and geometrically expanding. This is not what the US military should be involved in.
 
he is way too chicken to ever put himself in harm's way...but, of course, he has no problem putting others there
 
IHateGovernment said:
Radical Islamic Fundamentalism will continue to spread across Europe, and will gain even more intensity in the Middle East.

Please tell me in detail how this can happen.

As nations begin to succumb to the radicalism, other nations will become vulnerable, and very shortly the dominoes will begin to fall.

How will this happen? What precedent is there for the domino theory to come about.
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There is a 20 year plan that the islamist have for the conquest of the west. It starts in iraq. With the help of useful idiots (liberals) they will get America to withdraw from iraq and set up a shea ruled radical country to harbor their minions. They will continue to export their terror attacks. Concentrating on europe and other arab countries. Taking down saudi arabia, yemen, kuwait and all the others. Even syria will be forced into submission. Then they plan to take out Isreal.And begin working on europe.

I love how you dimwits all say it can't happen here. Guess again, the Titanic was said to be unsinkable. Your foolish ignorance wil eventually be your doom. And it has nothing what so ever to do with politics.
 
And the first part of the plan was to unseat Sadam. the brutal ruler that maintained order and stood in the way of the radicals.
So Bush started the plan ?
 
Gaffer said:
There is a 20 year plan that the islamist have for the conquest of the west. It starts in iraq. With the help of useful idiots (liberals) they will get America to withdraw from iraq and set up a shea ruled radical country to harbor their minions. They will continue to export their terror attacks. Concentrating on europe and other arab countries. Taking down saudi arabia, yemen, kuwait and all the others. Even syria will be forced into submission. Then they plan to take out Isreal.And begin working on europe.

I love how you dimwits all say it can't happen here. Guess again, the Titanic was said to be unsinkable. Your foolish ignorance wil eventually be your doom. And it has nothing what so ever to do with politics.
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Really, their "20 year plan...starts in Iraq"? Certainly this must be a pretty recent plan because they could not have accomplished this plot under the secular government of Saddam Hussein. But now that Bush has removed Saddam Hussein for them and enabled them to construct a radical Islamist state in what was once a secular country, they are free to do what they want. So given your brilliant analysis of this situation one is left with this troubling question. How was it that the radical Islamists were able to get Bush to go in and overthrow Saddam so that they could then make Iraq a Shia haven for radical Islamic terrorists? Apparently the only question at this point is this: Is Bush a willing or unwilling dupe of the radical terrorists who have been playing him for a stupid puppet since he became president? If he is a willing dupe then he should be charged with high treason, impeached, and taken to Guantanimo. If he is an unwilling dupe then one has to ask why should someone so stupid hold the highest office in the land? And if this is the case what does this scenario say about the general intelligence of the people who voted for him in the last election? In addition if these radicals have been playing him for a dupe why would these people have voted for him, why they feel as if he is worthy of being the leader of the country, and why would they continue to support him and his ignorance any longer??? It appears to me that Bush doen't have enough sense to come in out of the rain. Apparently he is a much bigger fool than any of us ever realized; easily manipulated by the terrorists into a war in which there is no exit. But if all this is the case and apparently it is, how is he more capable than Democrats of leading us out of this mess?????

So why don't you answer all those questions, 2 X 4 boy??????
 
Dixie, you ignore history.

Jihadists have attempted to overturn the Muslim states in the ME, on their return from Afghanistan post Soviet withdrawal. They failed. The Muslim people largely ignored their calls to rise up against their leaders and the Jihadists failed.

This is why they changed tact. They knew that the only way to unite the Muslim world to rise up against their leaders was to provide them with a common enemy. Thus they began provoke the US, already an unpopular figure in the Muslim world due to its relentless support for Israeli terrorism.

Thus we had 9/11.

The west's reaction to 9/11 played straight into the hands of the extremists. By following 'strategic interests' (ie economic interests) by invading Iraq, by using the wrong tactics, we have provided the extremists a fantastic recruitment and support-garnering tool.

As the head of the British Army states, we are simply exasperating the situation. Pulling out will leave behind a different Iraq to that we intended. The south with largely become under Iranian control, the centre will breakdown into sectarian fighting which and the north will remain under Kurdish control. In the north and south, AQ et al will be finished. Their raison d'etre in these areas will vanish. Central Iraq will end in a battle between Iraqi nationalists and the extremists, putting the extremists under intense pressure.

Leaving Iraq will remove the training and support-garnering opportunity for the extremists.

How we act on the strategic front from there dictates whether we will defeat the extremists. If we take a less biased position and force Israel and Palestine to the table by economic coercion, if we attempt to normalise relations with Iran and Syria, create a dialogue with them, we might have a chance.

You claims that Europe will fall to the extremists is entirely false and rhetorical. Britain has one of the largest Muslim populations in Europe and yet our Muslim population is less than 4% of the overall population. Europe is moving more towards the secular, revolted by the recent outbreak of religious extremism.

I know it is hard that you and yours will take the hit in history for some of the worse strategic thinking in history, the greatest blunders in history and it is embarrassing but hopefully this will be a lesson for the future. That creating foreign policy by filter of economic requirements, that creating a rhetorical fog to herd the population into a state of war frenzy, that not thinking things through, that operating foreign policy a la Arden Pyle will always come back to bite you in the arse.
 
There is a 20 year plan that the islamist have for the conquest of the west. It starts in iraq. With the help of useful idiots (liberals) they will get America to withdraw from iraq and set up a shea ruled radical country to harbor their minions. They will continue to export their terror attacks. Concentrating on europe and other arab countries. Taking down saudi arabia, yemen, kuwait and all the others. Even syria will be forced into submission. Then they plan to take out Isreal.And begin working on europe.

You are a retard with very poor strategic thinking and a poor line in rhetoric. See my above.
 
20 yr plan...... And these are some of the same folks that call liberals tin foil hat wearers and kiil aid drinking conspiracy theorists ? Wow, the remaing bush cheerleaders are losing it ;) err correction have laready lost it.
 
Prakosh said:
Really, their "20 year plan...starts in Iraq"? Certainly this must be a pretty recent plan because they could not have accomplished this plot under the secular government of Saddam Hussein. But now that Bush has removed Saddam Hussein for them and enabled them to construct a radical Islamist state in what was once a secular country, they are free to do what they want. So given your brilliant analysis of this situation one is left with this troubling question. How was it that the radical Islamists were able to get Bush to go in and overthrow Saddam so that they could then make Iraq a Shia haven for radical Islamic terrorists? Apparently the only question at this point is this: Is Bush a willing or unwilling dupe of the radical terrorists who have been playing him for a stupid puppet since he became president? If he is a willing dupe then he should be charged with high treason, impeached, and taken to Guantanimo. If he is an unwilling dupe then one has to ask why should someone so stupid hold the highest office in the land? And if this is the case what does this scenario say about the general intelligence of the people who voted for him in the last election? In addition if these radicals have been playing him for a dupe why would these people have voted for him, why they feel as if he is worthy of being the leader of the country, and why would they continue to support him and his ignorance any longer??? It appears to me that Bush doen't have enough sense to come in out of the rain. Apparently he is a much bigger fool than any of us ever realized; easily manipulated by the terrorists into a war in which there is no exit. But if all this is the case and apparently it is, how is he more capable than Democrats of leading us out of this mess?????

So why don't you answer all those questions, 2 X 4 boy??????
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I notice that none of these defenders of the administration's mindless ideosyncratic policies have been willing to answer my questions regarding the Bush administration's willing duplicity in their removal of the one solidly secular roadblock in the Middle East against the first and evidently necessary step in their twenty year master plan. Why would Bush aid the terrorists in this way????
 
I would say Bush and his regime, and Blair and his regime, are verging on unwitting treason for there actions.

Bush is fortunate that ignorance and a simple mind could explain his actions, Blair has no such defense.
 
Gaffer said:
There is a 20 year plan that the islamist have for the conquest of the west. It starts in iraq. With the help of useful idiots (liberals) they will get America to withdraw from iraq and set up a shea ruled radical country to harbor their minions. They will continue to export their terror attacks. Concentrating on europe and other arab countries. Taking down saudi arabia, yemen, kuwait and all the others. Even syria will be forced into submission. Then they plan to take out Isreal.And begin working on europe.

I love how you dimwits all say it can't happen here. Guess again, the Titanic was said to be unsinkable. Your foolish ignorance wil eventually be your doom. And it has nothing what so ever to do with politics.
Click to expand...

Then Bush was an idiot, for spending half a trillion dollars and sacrificing 23,000 dead and wounded american soldiers, to overthrow a secular arab regime that was fundamentally and actively working against islamic theocrats.

Why would you and Bush do that? Are you actively trying to undermine america, and promote the very "twenty year plan" that you've concocted?
 
Am I the only conservative left on the message boards? Did the rest of them just give up arguing with you idots? All I see, is post after post of liberal idiocy, the same kind of liberal idiocy that got us into this whole mess. We can't appease our way out of this, there is no other option now, except to defeat the radical elements we are at war with. ANY gesture to the contrary, will further strengthen their postition and stature on the world stage, and will be a continuing problem for years to come.

Iraq will be controlled by a unified government, one that the people vote for in free elections. This is important, because it is the democratic model that presents the counter to the ideology of fascist terrorism. If we have any hope of ever winning this war on terror through something other than bombs and bullets, democracy provides the only viable answer.
 
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