I'll Not Yield

blackascoal said:
Speaking of adopted kids .. :0)

16 months ...

Walking in momma's shoes

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Checking her stock portfolio

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Are we there yet?

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I'm sorry .. I can't help myself. :0)
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OMG! She's a cutie!

The subject of adoption has always irritated me. The standard of our society dictates that only white, healthy infants are adopted. All others are hit and miss, dependent upon the prejudices and sincerity of the adoptive parents; as well as the whims and prejudices of state bureaucracies.
I've said before on here that there's children rotting away in group homes, thousands and thousands of them, feeling unloved and thinking perhaps it could have been better if they had been aborted.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
QUOTE=blackascoal;1247285

well lets call it 'cuddling' instead then.....lately people have been all about changing the meaning of words.......should women be allowed to cuddle their unborn children?........I can see it now, Planned Parenthood Cuddling Clinics...........
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You're so far off base about so much in your reply that it makes no sense to waste time challenging it. You believe that you and your beliefs are more important than all else .. birth mother be damned.

Here's a question for you .. suppose abortion was illegal .. how many adoptions take place compared with the number of abortions in the US?

Based on available state-level data, an estimated 1.16 million abortions were performed in 2009, 1.13 million were performed in 2010, and 1.06 million in 2011
http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

Of the roughly 14,000 to 18,000 infant adoptions each year, about 55 percent are fully open
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-21/infant-adoptions-more-open/53680622/1

Congressional Coalition of Adoption Institute
Facts and Statistics

In the U.S. 400,540 children are living without permanent families in the foster care system. 115,000 of these children are eligible for adoption, but nearly 40% of these children will wait over three years in foster care before being adopted.
Source: AFCARS Report, No. 19

According to the U.S. State Department, U.S. families adopted more than 9,000 children in 2011. Last year, Americans adopted the highest number of children from China, followed by Ethiopia, Russia, South Korea, and Ukraine.
Source: United States State Department

No child under three years of age should be placed in institutional care without a parent or primary caregiver. This is based on results from 32 European countries, including nine in-depth country studies, which considered the “risk of harm in terms of attachment disorder, developmental delay and neural atrophy in the developing brain."
Source: Mapping the Number and Characteristics of Children Under Three in Institutions Across Europe at Risk of Harm: Executive Summary

Children raised in orphanages have an IQ 20 points lower than their peers in foster care, according to a meta-analysis of 75 studies (more than 3,800 children in 19 countries). This shows the need for children to be raised in families, not in institutions.
Source: IQ of Children Growing Up in Children's Homes A Meta-Analysis on IQ Delays in Orphanages

Each year, over 27,000 youth “age out” of foster care without the emotional and financial support necessary to succeed. This number has steadily risen over the past decade. Nearly 40% had been homeless or couch surfed, nearly 60% of young men had been convicted of a crime, and only 48% were employed. 75% of women and 33% of men receive government benefits to meet basic needs. 50% of all youth who aged out were involved in substance use and 17% of the females were pregnant.
Source: Fostering Connections

Nearly 25% of youth aging out did not have a high school diploma or GED, and a mere 6% had finished a two- or four-year degree after aging out of foster care. One study shows 70% of all youth in foster care have the desire to attend college.
Source: Midwest Evaluation of the Adult Functioning of Former Foster Youth

As of 2011, nearly 60,000 children in foster care in the U.S. are placed in institutions or group homes, not in traditional foster homes.
Source: AFCARS Report, No. 19

States spent a mere 1.2-1.3% of available federal funds on parent recruitment and training services even though 22% of children in foster care had adoption as their goal.
Source: Adoption Advocate No. 6: Parent Recruitment and Training: A Crucial, Neglected Child

Over three years is the average length of time a child waits to be adopted in foster care. Roughly 55% of these children have had three or more placements. An earlier study found that 33% of children had changed elementary schools five or more times, losing relationships and falling behind educationally.
Source: AFCARS Report, No. 19

Adopted children make-up roughly 2% of the total child population under the age of 18, but 11% of all adolescents referred for therapy have been adopted. Post-adoption services are important to all types of adoption, whether foster care adoption, international adoption, or domestic infant adoption.
Source: Behavior Problems and Mental Health Contacts in Adopted, Foster and Nonadopted Children
http://www.ccainstitute.org/why-we-do-it-/facts-and-statistics.html

If you don't know any of this, then you don't know as much as you think you do about adoption.

This is what you claim .. "an infant will be adopted within weeks, the children in foster homes who have not been adopted have not been adopted because they weren't eligible for adoption until after they were 12."

This is what the facts are ..

U.S. Newborn

Average time from preparation of portfolio to match with birthmother (includes time spent in false starts):
Less than 3 months....................34%
4 to 6 months............................19%
7 to 12 months...........................20%
13 to 24 months.........................17%
Longer than 24 months...............10%
http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles.php?aid=2161

66% take longer than 3 months .. not weeks .. and almost half take longer than a year .. not weeks.

NEWBORNS

If abortions were not made available to women, there is no way in hell that this or any other system could handle the crush of unwanted babies.

No need for either of us to get our hackles up .. this is just a conversation. Let the evidence speak for itself.
 
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blackascoal said:
With all due respect good brother, you seem unaware of a different perspective that you should consider .. that of the birth mother. I sat in on two of the phone conferences that my daughter had with the adoption agency, a lawyer, and the birth mother. I was moved to tears by the obvious pain and trauma the birth mother was experiencing. It is an experience that neither you nor I can ever truly understand.

Consider this ..

I can't speak for anyone else but I can tell you my reasons for choosing an abortion instead of adoption.

#1: in order to give your child away to strangers, you must first be willing and able to continue the pregnancy to term. Many women, including myself, are unwilling or unable to continute a pregnancy to term. My pregnancy was ectopic which put my life in jeopardy. My choices were die or have the pregnancy removed.
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When it is life vs. life, then the choice should indeed be there. When it is life vs. convenience it should not.

#2: the adoption system, in my limited experiences, seems like a warped ebay system where white, healthy pregnant women are given money, clothing, and gifts (as long as the baby will also be white and healthy - bonus points/items/cash for blonde hair or blue eyes) for their infants while the state grudgingly takes the infants who do not fit into that category. The waiting line for someone to adopt a healthy, white infant is over seven years long (on average) while other children languish in the foster and public adoption system. Couples are .N.O.T dying to adopt "any" baby, they are dying to adopt the "perfect" baby and if you're pretty sure you won't be having one of them, your child will have less of a chance of being adopted and properly cared for. I could not live with myself knowing that my own child was being neglected because it did not fit someone elses perception of "perfection." when couples "dying to adopt" start adopting the hundreds of thousands of children waiting for good homes, then i'll reconsider my position.

NOTE: Zoe' is a mixed race child and the agency was up front with everyone on the chances that she would be adopted into a health home in a reasonable amount of time. They were up front about the differences in the adoption of a healthy white child as compared to a mixed race child born prematurely. Before you believe that adoption is always possible, you should study the adoption system.
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Seems a bit outdated given the number of adoptions from China etc... but I would like to see the stats locally. How many newborns go without being adopted?

#3: I would worry, constantly, about the child that I gave away. Are they still alive? Are they being well cared for? Etc. And while an "open" adoption is supposed to fix that problem, many women who have given children away report that their so-called "open" adoption quickly closed when the other couple assumed possession of the child. Which also means that you never really know the people you're giving your own flesh and blood to.

NOTE: Hence my comment about adoption often being as traumatic as abortion. You cannot ignore the horror stories of many adopted children. Imagine living the rest of your life wondering if the baby you gave away is living in a horror story?
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So the other option is to kill the child? That makes no sense. You are so worried about what might happen during the childs life that could be bad that you decide instead to kill the child to prevent anything (good or bad) from happening to it?

#4: in order to give a child away (in most states) both parents must sign away their rights to the child. If your partner decides that he doesn't want you to give away the child (even if he, himself, cannot offer the care that the child needs) and refuses to sign his rights away, the adoption falls through and you are then stuck with the child that you couldn't take care of in the first place. Until the laws are changed to fully protect the birth mother in this situation, I cannot support the current adoption system.
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I would be interested in seeing these laws.

#5: many adoption agencies and adoptive parents lie to the birth mother because they are afraid that she will change her mind at or shortly after the birth (which she has every right to do). They threaten to sue her (which they can't) or they arrange to take possession of the child before they are legally able to do so.
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Which has nothing to do with abortion. The woman most certainly should be able to maintain the right to keep her child.

#6: many women who choose an abortion do so because it gives them closure to the crises situation of an unintended pregnancy. An adoption, however, does not bring closure, only a lifetime of doubt, wonder, and worry.
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This is one of the dumbest things I have heard. Abortion does not give a woman closure. She then has a lifetime of living with the fact that she gave her child no choice, no chance, no life.

#7: I would not choose adoption because I could not. I could not give a child away to strangers or to other family members. I don't know the strangers and I know the family members too well. If I am pregnant and cannot afford to keep the pregnancy or the resulting child, then I would choose an abortion.
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That is a completely selfish action. 'Oh well, I can't take care of the child and since it would be hard on me to give it up for adoption, I will just kill the kid'... great fucking logic.

You should not assume that you are more caring about the life of a child than the mother who has found herself in a precarious and devastating situation that has few clear solutions.
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Anyone who cares about the life of the child is most certainly caring more than the woman that would consider ending that life.

I seriously disagree with the term 'killing.'
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and that would be because like most pro-abortionists, you want to dehumanize the child in order to justify killing it.

Again, I say this with respect brother.
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likewise
 
Howey said:
OMG! She's a cutie!

The subject of adoption has always irritated me. The standard of our society dictates that only white, healthy infants are adopted. All others are hit and miss, dependent upon the prejudices and sincerity of the adoptive parents; as well as the whims and prejudices of state bureaucracies.
I've said before on here that there's children rotting away in group homes, thousands and thousands of them, feeling unloved and thinking perhaps it could have been better if they had been aborted.
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Link us up to your stats. Show the data that says its only healthy white babies that get adopted.

Yes, older kids put up for adoption have a harder time. But show where newborns have that problem.
 
Superfreak said:
When it is life vs. life, then the choice should indeed be there. When it is life vs. convenience it should not.

Seems a bit outdated given the number of adoptions from China etc... but I would like to see the stats locally. How many newborns go without being adopted?

So the other option is to kill the child? That makes no sense. You are so worried about what might happen during the childs life that could be bad that you decide instead to kill the child to prevent anything (good or bad) from happening to it?

I would be interested in seeing these laws.

Which has nothing to do with abortion. The woman most certainly should be able to maintain the right to keep her child.

This is one of the dumbest things I have heard. Abortion does not give a woman closure. She then has a lifetime of living with the fact that she gave her child no choice, no chance, no life.

That is a completely selfish action. 'Oh well, I can't take care of the child and since it would be hard on me to give it up for adoption, I will just kill the kid'... great fucking logic.

Anyone who cares about the life of the child is most certainly caring more than the woman that would consider ending that life.

and that would be because like most pro-abortionists, you want to dehumanize the child in order to justify killing it.

likewise
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There are over a million abortions in the US every year .. and your suggestion is what? Adoption?

Here's the punch line .. most of those who fail to think this through .. like you .. are generally the same people whining about food stamps, affirmative action, entitlements, public school funding and a whole shitload of programs designed to benefit HUMANS .. THE LIVE ONES.

Tell me that you aren't equally that confused about life .. right after you tell me what happens to the million plus children that cannot be placed in an adoptive home.
 
Shockingly it's still fat old white guys against abortion!
Superfreak you are killing future babies wearing your helmet to a spinning class.
 
blackascoal said:
There are over a million abortions in the US every year .. and your suggestion is what? Adoption?
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Yes and how many adoptions are there from foreign countries?

Here's the punch line .. most of those who fail to think this through .. like you .. are generally the same people whining about food stamps, affirmative action, entitlements, public school funding and a whole shitload of programs designed to benefit HUMANS .. THE LIVE ONES.
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Which is nonsense. For one, I have thought it through. It is those that make choices without thinking it through that are the ones that want to kill a child because they were too stupid to think thinks through ahead of time.

Tell me that you aren't equally that confused about life .. right after you tell me what happens to the million plus children that cannot be placed in an adoptive home.
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Show me what makes you think that they cannot be placed. What are the adoption stats that you are reading?
 
Superfreak said:
Link us up to your stats. Show the data that says its only healthy white babies that get adopted.

Yes, older kids put up for adoption have a harder time. But show where newborns have that problem.
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Now you're just making yourself look bad.

If this is a question that you have to ask .. you know absolutely nothing about the process.

Six Words: 'Black Babies Cost Less To Adopt'
June 27, 2013
http://www.npr.org/2013/06/27/195967886/six-words-black-babies-cost-less-to-adopt
 
Darla said:
It is anything but lame. It is exactly the point, and one you refuse to ever get into your head. It's the entire situation in a nutshell. It says it all.
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If ladies were allowed to tell these freaks to not mastrubate or raw dog they might have a votive!
Otherwise keep rap dancing with Karl rove!
Abortion is not being redecided
Woman vote
More of them get educated
Stfu old get off my lawn dude
 
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