Infant Deaths

[Cypress]

The bolded part of your post scares the crap out of me. I know I'll be dead and gone before there is no conservativism but my kids will have to live in such a world, even here in conservative Oklahoma. I think you are absolutely right in what you say and I hate that Dano celebrates the fact that people are leaving the cities for more rural, sub-urban areas......and most do bring their values (or lack thereof) with them. Some see the light when they get here but many do not.

I do not intend for what I have said to imply in any way that there are no people in urban areas with values. The implication is that their value system as a whole tends to be very different from mine.

The implication is that their value system as a whole tends to be very different from mine

LR: I don't even know what this really means. I dont' think there are "Red" values, and "Blue" values, at the most fundamental level.

I live in a dominantly rural area, mostly liberal but also a good number of cons, and honestly I can't tell at face value, who of my neighbors have red values and who have blue. And we have a lot of transplants from LA. Some people may differ on what marignal tax rates should be, or what sentencing guidelines for criminals should be. Those are policy differences that exist at the margins. But all of us here, work to protect our community, our environment, and to preserve our rural and agricultural heritage. And all of us wants whats best for our kids.

 

[uscitizen]

The bolded part of your post scares the crap out of me. I know I'll be dead and gone before there is no conservativism but my kids will have to live in such a world, even here in conservative Oklahoma. I think you are absolutely right in what you say and I hate that Dano celebrates the fact that people are leaving the cities for more rural, sub-urban areas......and most do bring their values (or lack thereof) with them. Some see the light when they get here but many do not.

I do not intend for what I have said to imply in any way that there are no people in urban areas with values. The implication is that their value system as a whole tends to be very different from mine.

Yep, know what you mean, those darn "immigrants" want to bring their world with them while claiming to run away from it....

 

[uscitizen]

The implication is that their value system as a whole tends to be very different from mine

LR: I don't even know what this really means. I dont' think there are "Red" values, and "Blue" values, at the most fundamental level.

I live in a dominantly rural area, mostly liberal but also a good number of cons, and honestly I can't tell at face value, who of my neighbors have red values and who have blue. And we have a lot of transplants from LA. Some people may differ on what marignal tax rates should be, or what sentencing guidelines for criminals should be. Those are policy differences that exist at the margins. But all of us here, work to protect our community, our environment, and to preserve our rural and agricultural heritage. And all of us wants whats best for our kids.

Cypress, you don't know what a rural area is like LR and I do. I read your description of all the stuff you had around you to do.....
You live in what leaning and I would see as a spreading suburbia, or country club type area from your descriptions. At least to my point of view.

 

[ProfDanoVonManough]

Having 5 or 6 kids is not being responsible, Bubbi.

Well this is what I've always said to welfare mommas and the Dads that don't stick around: Having kids is not being responsible.
Raising them however: IS.

And liberals are made, not born. A dose of crappy conservative parenting will turn half those connie kids into libs by college age.

Right, which would be why every generation we see a big switcharoo between states showing Conservative and Liberal voters.
Please, think before you speak, certainly politics is not wholly genetic, but it is also environmental and though many teens may act Liberal and irresponsible, they grow up and most remember the Conservative values they were taught with and gradually except them.

 

[Cancel7]

Cypress, you don't know what a rural area is like LR and I do. I read your description of all the stuff you had around you to do.....
You live in what leaning and I would see as a spreading suburbia, or country club type area from your descriptions. At least to my point of view.

How would you say your values (or those of your neighbors) differ from the people in Cypress' area then? I'm curious.

 

[Cypress]

Cypress, you don't know what a rural area is like LR and I do. I read your description of all the stuff you had around you to do.....
You live in what leaning and I would see as a spreading suburbia, or country club type area from your descriptions. At least to my point of view.

Ummm, it's the "liberals" around here that are fighting the most to prevent the expansion of unmitigated urban development, protecting small businesses by opposing the infusion of Walmarts into the community, and perserving valuable agricultural land and open space like our orange groves and strawbery fields.

But thanks for saying I live at a country club!

 

[ProfDanoVonManough]

Dano, seriously, take a look at indicators of standards of living, you will find MS in the bottom two on nearly every single one. Don't tell me you don't know this.

I am not claiming that money equals a happy or satisfying lifestyle. However, there is little doubt, that neither does its direct opposite; poverty.

Well the number one thing that increases people's prosperity is better jobs and suggesting that they take on more government social welfare programs which mean increased taxes and less personal responsibility is not exactly going to create a better job environment.

I think you judge to relate to other states when you should judge their own progress, the South is the nation's fastest growing region both population wise and economically and they have done that LARGELY by being in favor of less government and more Conservative. Give them time, not government programs.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Good point, Republican Rudy Guillani did get tough on crime which gave New Yorkers at least some advantage over other Liberal run inner cities.

San Francisco reduced crime over the same period WITHOUT any of Julie's overblown grandstanding . . . or his authoritarian posturing.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Well this is what I've always said to welfare mommas and the Dads that don't stick around: Having kids is not being responsible.
Raising them however: IS.


Right, which would be why every generation we see a big switcharoo between states showing Conservative and Liberal voters.
Please, think before you speak, certainly politics is not wholly genetic, but it is also environmental and though many teens may act Liberal and irresponsible, they grow up and most remember the Conservative values they were taught with and gradually except them.

LOL! Yeah right. Dream on. Your way of life is disappearing, Dano, and the sooner the better.

BTW, I did some quick googling to see if I could verify this notion of the de-urbanization of the United States. I think you'll find it ain't happenin'.
http://www.demographia.com/db-1945uza.htm

 

[Cancel7]

Well the number one thing that increases people's prosperity is better jobs and suggesting that they take on more government social welfare programs which mean increased taxes and less personal responsibility is not exactly going to create a better job environment.

I think you judge to relate to other states when you should judge their own progress, the South is the nation's fastest growing region both population wise and economically and they have done that LARGELY by being in favor of less government and more Conservative. Give them time, not government programs.

Well, it's been about 145 years since the civil war ended. How much time do you think you'll need?

 

[leaningright]

Ummm, it's the "liberals" around here that are fighting the most to prevent the expansion of unmitigated urban development, protecting small businesses by opposing the infusion of Walmarts into the community, and perserving valuable agricultural land and open space like our orange groves and strawbery fields.

But thanks for saying I live at a country club!

The thing about Walmart....Without Walmart in our county, a lot of people couldn't live here. Do you realize that the cost of living in our county makes a Walmart job appealing? It's not a bad gig. My wife even considered it before deciding to take a jog as an administrative assistant where she makes a mere $3,000 more that Sam Walton's son would pay her.

 

[Cancel7]

San Francisco reduced crime over the same period WITHOUT any of Julie's overblown grandstanding . . . or his authoritarian posturing.

In fact, crime was reduced nation-wide during those years.
Otherwise known as, the Clinton years.

 

[uscitizen]

Ummm, it's the "liberals" around here that are fighting the most to prevent the expansion of unmitigated urban development, protecting small businesses by opposing the infusion of Walmarts into the community, and perserving valuable agricultural land and open space like our orange groves and strawbery fields.

But thanks for saying I live at a country club!

Just a matter of comparison Cypress, come on over sometime and I will show ya around.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

In fact, crime was reduced nation-wide during those years.
Otherwise known as, the Clinton years.

Yep. Almost every major urban area could match the New York numbers. There was no miracle, Giuliani just took credit for a national trend.

 

[ProfDanoVonManough]

LOL! Yeah right. Dream on. Your way of life is disappearing, Dano, and the sooner the better.

BTW, I did some quick googling to see if I could verify this notion of the de-urbanization of the United States. I think you'll find it ain't happenin'.
http://www.demographia.com/db-1945uza.htm

???
I never claimed it did, I just said that people are moving from more Liberal areas like Cali and the Northeastern states to more Conservative states like in the South.
Urban itself is misleading, certainly a huge amount of people did and are moving away from Liberal Democrat run inner cities to the suburban areas, which are often still called urban.

My way of life is personal freedom and individual responsibility, yeah it is disappearing but I'm counting on Liberals appalingly low birthrate to help reverse the trend.

 

[ProfDanoVonManough]

Well, it's been about 145 years since the civil war ended. How much time do you think you'll need?

And how long has it been since the region switched from Democrats to Republicans? I can't take credit for the shitty life that most of them lived under with Socialist Democrats like Huey Long and LBJ, but they are certainly are doing MUCH better under Conservative Republicans in office.

 

[uscitizen]

And how long has it been since the region switched from Democrats to Republicans? I can't take credit for the shitty life that most of them lived under with Socialist Democrats like Huey Long and LBJ, but they are certainly are doing MUCH better under Conservative Republicans in office.

Yeah we can tell from the infant mortality rates....

 

[Cancel7]

And how long has it been since the region switched from Democrats to Republicans? I can't take credit for the shitty life that most of them lived under with Socialist Democrats like Huey Long and LBJ, but they are certainly are doing MUCH better under Conservative Republicans in office.

They were living a "shitty life" long before LBJ came along. Do you know what he did for the Texas hill country? What life was like there before he brought them electricity?

The south is doing much better under conservative republican rule, is it? I guess the rising infant mortality rates really bears that claim out.

 

[Cypress]

Just a matter of comparison Cypress, come on over sometime and I will show ya around.

Oh, I understand the rural south is different. I lived in Texas and Louisiana. There are reactionaries there who want to use government to regulate a woman's body, and to legislate against (some) people's personal sexual behaviour.

But, don't you think the real reason for hostility towards city slickers, is not their "values"....but their annoying city slicker habits and attitudes? Like wanting a Starbucks on every corner, or using or landscaping their property in ways that are incompatible with the local traditions or the local ecology?


Maybe I'm wrong. But, I really think it has to do more with relatively benign city slicker habits, than red versus blue "values".

 

[ProfDanoVonManough]

Yep. Almost every major urban area could match the New York numbers. There was no miracle, Giuliani just took credit for a national trend.

BAHAHAHA, this is a total BS LIE.
New York is THE safest big city, the other cities did NOT match it and some like Detroit and DC didn't even come close:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14910822/

Crime is still low, so don't give me some crap over Clinton, New York's reduction was due to getting tough on crime, especially with the "broken window's" philosophy. Republicans in the house pushing for welfare cuts (which Clinton vetoed twice), got millions into jobs where they stood to lose more from criminal actions and brought them hope and pride helped bigtime to cut down on crime.
So did the advance of technology with more security cameras and home install systems.
Also having Republican governors get tough on crime with 3 strikes laws and such also helped, no more Liberal Democrats releasing violent criminals on parole after a few years/months over and over.

There were multiple factors, but don't try and sell this nonsense over Clinton's mere presence reducing crime, to be fair he had some good initiatives like pushing community policing, but on the whole the actions of the Liberal Democrat party has not exactly been something that criminals fear.