Infant Deaths

So what bred Bush and his ilk ?
Bush is just trash of a different type.

The poor little rich kid could not make a go of anything unless it was handed to him.
And blew most of what was handed to him.
 
ProfDanoVonManough said:
Oh for fucks sakes, you want a study showing the numbers and proving it for the 90's here you go:
"New York is by far the largest city in the United States, and its record of crime reduction in the 1990s was, by far, the largest of any big city
in the United States."
Go to Figure 6.1
http://www.law.columbia.edu/faculty...ntentdisposition=filename=Crime+Decline-6.pdf

As I said it is NOT even CLOSE and the numbers back me up. But YOU as a New Yorker know this as well as anyone, tons of people I've talked to from New York all credit Guilani and being tough on crime, he even drew plenty of the Liberal Democrat vote because they were so fed up. YOU are too much of a yellow dog to ever accept that, but the facts speak for themselves.
I am sure you already knew this but are just hoping to be dishonest and get away with it, I mean come on this is not even close, nobody could be that unobservative and idiotic. No, I don't know what the rates were in the rest of the country, only that crime dropped overall, nationwide. That's not in dispute, and is afterall, the whole point. I'd still want to see federal figures on this, from an actual government source. A lot of New yorkers did give Rudy credit for the drop in crime, but many of them were probably unaware that it was a nation-wide phenomenon, or didn't care. I don't know what "tough on crime" means, and I never have. He was very tough on gun control. I never liked Rudy, and I'm unlikely to change my view just because you know "tons of ny'ers" that did. He to my mind, was authoritarian and had no regard for civil rights. I've never been one to trade my safety for my rights. At the end of his term, before 9/11, Rudy was nowhere near as popular as he once was here.


Crime does not just rise and fall merely owing to who is in the White House. A criminal about to break into a house is not contemplating who is President. They have to DO things to reduce crime and I have shown you a list of MANY points showing how Republicans reduced crime while Dems are weak on it.
As for the blip in violent crime rate increase in 2005, what about 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001? Who was president then?
You'll need more than ONE single year to make your case for your point. Crime rates are affected by poverty rates. When poverty drops, so does crime, and vs vsa. It doesn't happen overnight, but long-term, the effects will show themselves. We don't yet have the figures for 2006, so we will see what story they tell.
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bolded
 
Cypress said:
I believe most people who live in poverty are children. I don't hold them responsible for living in poverty.

Do you really know how much money we spend on AFDC (aid to families with dependent children - i.e., welfare)? I think its around 1% of the federal budget.
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So the idea that you should bear a child that you are unable to support is a good one? I don't blame little kids born into poverty for that. That's foolish, I blame the parent(s).

Would some of these kids be better off in an orphanage?
 
Troglodyte27 said:
I live in the south, in a county with 70% of all black kids and almost 50% of white kids born out-of-wedlock. This is not about ignorance or ill-education.

It's an attitude unlike anything I ever experienced while living in the north - "My daddy was a dumbass and his daddy before him. I come from a long, proud line of dumbasses. If being a dumbass was good enough for them, it's good enough for me!"

It is a truism here - trash breeds trash and sorry breeds sorry. Sometimes it seems to me that these people are in shellshock or a mental fog.
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Wow, those are high rates, I can't believe that.

I've never lived in the south Trog, so I can't comment on the proud dumbass thing. I don't even know what to say about that, that wouldn't sound like Southern-bashing. Which is an activity I love to participate in, but not really appropriate for this topic.
 
Troglodyte27 said:
So the idea that you should bear a child that you are unable to support is a good one? I don't blame little kids born into poverty for that. That's foolish, I blame the parent(s).

Would some of these kids be better off in an orphanage?
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No, it's a terrible idea! He's just saying he doesn't want to penalize the children.

I don't know, but you can't put them in orphanages.
 
Trog is right that many ignorant parents do not want their children to "be above their raisin"......
And there is no complete nor fast cure for it.
 
Darla said:
No, it's a terrible idea! He's just saying he doesn't want to penalize the children.

I don't know, but you can't put them in orphanages.
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Many would be better off and it would break trhe cycle of poverty. If they were good orphanages.
 
Troglodyte27 said:
I live in the south, in a county with 70% of all black kids and almost 50% of white kids born out-of-wedlock. This is not about ignorance or ill-education.

It's an attitude unlike anything I ever experienced while living in the north - "My daddy was a dumbass and his daddy before him. I come from a long, proud line of dumbasses. If being a dumbass was good enough for them, it's good enough for me!"

It is a truism here - trash breeds trash and sorry breeds sorry. Sometimes it seems to me that these people are in shellshock or a mental fog.
Click to expand...

This still doesn't imply that something in a southerner's blood or DNA causes them to be losers.

Kids from affluent and middle class southern families, aren't much different than kids from middle class New york families.

Take a baby from a poor, southern white Teenage mother, and put him in an affluent southern household, with loving affluent southern parents, and odds are that kid goes to college and makes something of herself.

It's about economics and poverty, to a large extent, trog. Not something inherent in southern DNA
 
uscitizen said:
Many would be better off and it would break trhe cycle of poverty. If they were good orphanages.
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Regardless, you can't do that. You can't take someone's children from them unless they are being physically abused, or starved, or something like that.

And I don't think that there is such a thing as a "good orphanage". those places are riddled with abuse. There's no easy answer, as you pointed out.
 
Troglodyte27 said:
So the idea that you should bear a child that you are unable to support is a good one? I don't blame little kids born into poverty for that. That's foolish, I blame the parent(s).

Would some of these kids be better off in an orphanage?
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I'm being pragmatic.

No, that teenage mom isn't ready for kids. We should mitigate that by improving sex educations, improving schools, and improving opportunity for poor kids.

In the meantime, I don't mind spending 5 or 10 dollars a year of my tax money, on children who are on AFDC. Because AFDC is an infintesimally small part of my federal tax liability.
 
Cypress said:
This still doesn't imply that something in a southerner's blood or DNA causes them to be losers.

Kids from affluent and middle class southern families, aren't much different than kids from middle class New york families.

Take a baby from a poor, southern white Teenage mother, and put him in an affluent southern household, with loving affluent southern parents, and odds are that kid goes to college and makes something of herself.

It's about economics and poverty, to a large extent, trog. Not something inherent in southern DNA
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Nope not a DNA thing, there are plenty with the same problems in NYC and rural NE USA. It is a learned passed on cultural thing, like welfare generations.

Hmm I think if we had mandatory voting those southern states would not be red....

but then I could be wrong, it took some pretty stupid people to re-elect Bush...
 
Cypress said:
I'm being pragmatic.

No, that teenage mom isn't ready for kids. We should mitigate that by improving sex educations, improving schools, and improving opportunity for poor kids.

In the meantime, I don't mind spending 5 or 10 dollars a year of my tax money, on children who are on AFDC. Because AFDC is an infintesimally small part of my federal tax liability.
Click to expand...

That's how I feel. I'm forced to pay taxes to fund the bombing of children in other countries. I'm going to begrudge a few bucks to help feed and get medical care to kids here? Those are some pretty f'd up values, if you ask me. I'm not talking about Trog, who never supported the Iraq war. I am talking about in general, and some of those types do post here. On this very thread in fact.
 
uscitizen said:
Nope not a DNA thing, there are plenty with the same problems in NYC and rural NE USA. It is a learned passed on cultural thing, like welfare generations.

Hmm I think if we had mandatory voting those southern states would not be red....

but then I could be wrong, it took some pretty stupid people to re-elect Bush...
Click to expand...

No, I don't think that you are wrong. Which is why Republicans hope to supress voter turnout and love a rainy election day, and Democrat's hopes lie in a high turnout.
 
I'm going to change some things in Trog's quote to make it more like it is here.

Troglodyte27 said:
I live in the south, in a county with 70% of all black kids and almost 50% of white kids born out-of-wedlock. This is not about ignorance or ill-education.

It's an attitude unlike anything I ever experienced while living in the north - "My daddy was a [strike]dumbass[/strike]logger and his daddy before him. I come from a long, proud line of [strike]dumbasses[/strike]loggers. If being a [strike]dumbass[/strike] was good enough for them, it's good enough for me!"

It is a truism here - [strike]trash[/strike]poor breeds [strike]trash[/strike]poor and [strike]sorry[/strike]low expectation breeds [strike]sorry[/strike]low expectation. (I could never call someone sorry or trash) Sometimes it seems to me that these people are in shellshock or a mental fog.
Click to expand...

You could change logger to rock hauler nowadays but the concept is the same. So many of these people choose to have these types of "jobs" and make just enough money to get by in exchange for the free time. You may think I am way off here but I am not. I know these people on a personal level. They say things like, "Sure you have a nice place and everything but you have to get up and go to work everyday and I don't. If I don't feel like getting out a load of logs [rocks] then I can just go fishing. You can't. I don't want to be tied down like that." I have had this very conversation so many times in the past 20 years with lots of kids who now are doing just what their daddies did, raising lots of their own kids in a shanty and glorifying their life while villifying the life of the man who has a steady job. These are the people with the most kids around here.

In my Algebra I class I have 23 students. Eleven of them are classified as Special Ed. All 11 come from such families. They are Special Ed. not because of a real learning defiency but because they were not made to work in the lower grades to get to the point they should be at.

I agree with you Darla, education is the key. Education in a lot of areas, not just my areas of math and science. Education is the way out for these kids but unfortunately many don't seem to want "out."
 
leaningright said:
I'm going to change some things in Trog's quote to make it more like it is here.



You could change logger to rock hauler nowadays but the concept is the same. So many of these people choose to have these types of "jobs" and make just enough money to get by in exchange for the free time. You may think I am way off here but I am not. I know these people on a personal level. They say things like, "Sure you have a nice place and everything but you have to get up and go to work everyday and I don't. If I don't feel like getting out a load of logs [rocks] then I can just go fishing. You can't. I don't want to be tied down like that." I have had this very conversation so many times in the past 20 years with lots of kids who now are doing just what their daddies did, raising lots of their own kids in a shanty and glorifying their life while villifying the life of the man who has a steady job. These are the people with the most kids around here.

In my Algebra I class I have 23 students. Eleven of them are classified as Special Ed. All 11 come from such families. They are Special Ed. not because of a real learning defiency but because they were not made to work in the lower grades to get to the point they should be at.

I agree with you Darla, education is the key. Education in a lot of areas, not just my areas of math and science. Education is the way out for these kids but unfortunately many don't seem to want "out."
Click to expand...

Yeah. There's no answer for that part of the problem. All I can hope for is that those who do want out, have the opportunity to get out, and that the more of them who utilize those opportunities, then the more other kids will look at them as an example.
 
Darla said:
Wow, those are high rates, I can't believe that.

I've never lived in the south Trog, so I can't comment on the proud dumbass thing. I don't even know what to say about that, that wouldn't sound like Southern-bashing. Which is an activity I love to participate in, but not really appropriate for this topic.
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My numbers were off a little.

(For 2004) Out-of Wedlock births in North Central GA (by Race) - Total: 48.4%; white 27.8%; black 73.9%
http://health.state.ga.us/pdfs/ohip/vsr/natality04.pdf

I live in the heart of it. Please don't presume to tell me what I see with my own eyes.
 
leaningright said:
In my Algebra I class I have 23 students. Eleven of them are classified as Special Ed. All 11 come from such families. They are Special Ed. not because of a real learning defiency but because they were not made to work in the lower grades to get to the point they should be at.
Click to expand...

Oh, and to this.....Bush wants me to educate all of these at the same rate? Impossible.
 
Yes Leaning, and should we force them to live the way we think they should ?
You have amer-indian blood ? I think so this should hit home...

Kinda like our forcing our variety of "democracy" and associated life styles on Iraq...Or the Cherokee....
 
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