Is the Bible Literally True? No, of Course Not!

[ZenMode]

IF you did, then you didn't comprehend what you read.


The Word, as originally given and recorded, is inerrant.

However, subsequent translations of The Word into all the different languages have introduced some errors here and there. The main message of "Creation, The Fall, Redemption, and Restoration" has been maintained throughout the ages.


No they don't. They all have him dying on the day before the Sabbath (hence the records about breaking the legs of the criminals so that they'd die faster so that all the "clean up work" could be completed before the Sabbath arrived).

Mark 14:12 says that Jesus disciples asked him where they are supposed to prepare the Passover meal. That's the meal that Jesus ate with them, later that evening (beginning of Passover), when he did the famous "This is my body" speech. After the Passover meal, Jesus goes to the Garden of.... (I'm not even going to try and spell it), Judas betrays him, he spends that night in jail and then is crucified the next morning.

John has a similar story, but one important difference. Jesus is crucified on the Day of Preparation for Passover.

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.

15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!”

“Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked.

“We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.

16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

So, according to Mark, Jesus' disciples ask him where to prepare the Passover meal, they ate it together, (This is my body, etc, etc) Judas betrayed him and he was crucified the next morning.

In Mark, they never get to the meal because Jesus is already crucifified on the Day of Preparation for Passover.

They both can't be true, right?

 

[Into the Night]

I brought up DAY not DATE.

You brought up both, Sock. Don't try to deny your own posts.

If you were educated on the Bible, you would have known I wasn't referencing a DATE when taking about Jesus' death.

Blatant lie. Don't try to deny your own posts, Sock.

You would have known that a reference to a specific DAY would be a reference Passover.

Passover isn't mentioned around the death of Jesus, Sock.

Again... that's IF you were educated and not just a troll.

You are describing yourself again, Sock.

 

[Into the Night]

Mark 14:12 says that Jesus disciples asked him where they are supposed to prepare the Passover meal. That's the meal that Jesus ate with them, later that evening (beginning of Passover), when he did the famous "This is my body" speech. After the Passover meal, Jesus goes to the Garden of.... (I'm not even going to try and spell it), Judas betrays him, he spends that night in jail and then is crucified the next morning.

John has a similar story, but one important difference. Jesus is crucified on the Day of Preparation for Passover.

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.

15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!”

“Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked.

“We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.

16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

So, according to Mark, Jesus' disciples ask him where to prepare the Passover meal, they ate it together, (This is my body, etc, etc) Judas betrayed him and he was crucified the next morning.

In Mark, they never get to the meal because Jesus is already crucifified on the Day of Preparation for Passover.

They both can't be true, right?

Contextomy fallacies. You are attempting to assign dates never mentioned. You don't get to change the Bible, Sock.

 

[ZenMode]

Anatomy of an Epic Failure

Passover isn't mentioned around the death of Jesus, Sock.

Mark 14:12 says that Jesus disciples asked him where they are supposed to prepare the Passover meal. That's the meal that Jesus ate with them, later that evening (beginning of Passover), when he did the famous "This is my body" speech. After the Passover meal, Jesus goes to the Garden of....

John has a similar story, but one important difference. Jesus is crucified on the Day of Preparation for Passover.

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha).

14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

Contextomy fallacies. You are attempting to assign dates never mentioned. You don't get to change the Bible, Sock.

 

[IBDaMann]

I mean, how long have the warmizombies been screaming about various disasters being "imminent" (yet never actually coming to pass)?

You hit that nail on the head. I used to think Christianity was confusing with the "There is only ever one God, who is three Gods, but who are only one God, who is his own father ..." but then the warmizombies come along and insist that I acknowledge that 8 years is 40 years so I must act now before it's too late, but that it might already be too late. I bet you've never heard that before but I assure you that I hear it a lot.

I also realize that all sorts of different things could be considered as being "imminent",

The poles' loss of all their ice is imminent, despite their constant and massive ice accumulation which leads to calving and ice bergs that sink ships.

I mean, Santa Claus hasn't popped out from around the corner YET, but at any given moment in time, Santa Claus COULD suddenly pop out from around the corner before suddenly disappearing again.

He's busy. ... and he has to break in his new secretary. I can tell that you haven't tried to get on his calendar.

Time in and of itself is a rather intriguing thing.

I don't want to sound like James_, but this gets into the second law of thermodynamics. How do you not know this?

In any event, my personal conjecture re: the "signs of the times" is that Jesus will return for his Church [Revelation 3:10] sometime between now and a few short years from now (IOW, sometime during the 2020s), with his triumphant 'second coming' upon the Earth [Revelation 19] (with The Church, where all peoples will see and hear him) happening sometime during the 2030s.

I have to hand it to you, that's a pretty bold assertion. If it comes to pass and Jesus makes an appearance, I'm buying tickets and I'm going to remind him that I have been including a very flattering nativity scene in my holiday decorations every year. Oh, and if I get grilled about my atheism, I've got a great comeback: "Hey, Pascal's Wager is a fallacy!" Ergo, I've got an angle on this. I ran it through several Climate models and my arguments all work, and the temperatures always increase as well, although I don't know if that's supposed to be in there.

Honestly, I'm thankful that God has "tarried" as long as he has because it's given me an opportunity to learn how I, for much of my life, actually haven't been "the Christian" that I thought I was.

Doesn't that make your error one of not paying attention? I'm guessing that at any time you probably could have just checked. At least you found out in time. Hey, by any chance, were you mistakenly an atheist all that time? Stranger things have happened.

You could call it something similar to "Christian In Name Only".

Aaaah, you were a Catholic. It happens to the best of us.

Maybe not quite to that extent, but much closer to that than being a Christian "in action".

Maybe there's an action figure to be made of you, followed by an action movie. Who would they get to play you?

 

[gfm7175]

Oh, so it is only 6,000 years old,

How, exactly, are you coming up with 6,000 years from the word 'unknown'?

I guess then Jonah did do three days inside that whale, no one can prove he didn’t

Such beliefs all flow back to whether or not Christianity is true, and that is a matter of faith.

Since I believe Christianity to be true, and since I believe that all scripture is "God-breathed", and since I believe that the Book of Jonah is in fact a part of said scripture, then I can only reasonably conclude that the bit within the Book of Jonah about 'three days inside the whale' is also true. Additionally, the Book of Matthew even records Jesus himself making specific reference to said 'whale' event. (paraphrasing from memory --- "as Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of a whale, the Son of Man shall likewise spend three days and three nights in the belly of the Earth").

Funny, even Jews who wrote the Bible don’t believe the Evangelicals idiocy

You've spoken with "Jews who wrote the Bible"?! I didn't know you could time travel!

 

[gfm7175]

Again... that's IF you were educated and not just a troll.

Have you ever read Romans 1? (specifically verse 22)

 

[gfm7175]

How do you know this?

Because God's nature is perfect. He does not lie. He does not make mistakes.

Do you have access to the "original record"?

Even if I did, I'm not fluent in any language other than English.

 

[archives]

How, exactly, are you coming up with 6,000 years from the word 'unknown'?


Such beliefs all flow back to whether or not Christianity is true, and that is a matter of faith.

Since I believe Christianity to be true, and since I believe that all scripture is "God-breathed", and since I believe that the Book of Jonah is in fact a part of said scripture, then I can only reasonably conclude that the bit within the Book of Jonah about 'three days inside the whale' is also true. Additionally, the Book of Matthew even records Jesus himself making specific reference to said 'whale' event. (paraphrasing from memory --- "as Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of a whale, the Son of Man shall likewise spend three days and three nights in the belly of the Earth").


You've spoken with "Jews who wrote the Bible"?! I didn't know you could time travel!

Not “unknown” to Evangelical scholars

http://timeline.biblehistory.com/period/egypt-to-canaan
https://biblehub.com/timeline/
https://www.conazarene.org/hp_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Bible-Timeline.pdf
https://www.letu.edu/academics/arts-and-sciences/files/age-of-earth.pdf

So tell us, how many books of the Bible were not written by those of the Jewish faith

 

[Yakuda]

You brought up both, Sock. Don't try to deny your own posts.

Blatant lie. Don't try to deny your own posts, Sock.

Passover isn't mentioned around the death of Jesus, Sock.

You are describing yourself again, Sock.

Actually passover is mentioned around the death of Jesus. Matt 26: 1-2 just for starters.

 

[gfm7175]

The resurrection and miracles are highly implausible.

If any of those things were anything other than "highly implausible", then they wouldn't make for very much of a miracle then, would they?

Characters like John the Baptist, Herod, Pontius Pilate, Jesus' brother James were real people.

Agreed.

I doubt the bible is considered light reading or entertainment.

It's definitely not light reading. There is SOOOOO much to be discovered within it... so much that even life-long Christians who make it a habit to read parts of it on a daily basis will still miss things here and there (or not understand things here and there). There's ALWAYS more to learn!

But the bible helped keep literacy alive in Western Europe during the dark ages, and the bible is largely responsible for the evolution of German, Russian, English into sophisticated literary languages. So I don't think the historical and cultural significance of the bible can be denied.

Right. It can't (reasonably, anyway).

 

[gfm7175]

Mark 14:12 says that Jesus disciples asked him where they are supposed to prepare the Passover meal. That's the meal that Jesus ate with them, later that evening (beginning of Passover), when he did the famous "This is my body" speech. After the Passover meal, Jesus goes to the Garden of.... (I'm not even going to try and spell it), Judas betrays him, he spends that night in jail and then is crucified the next morning.

John has a similar story, but one important difference. Jesus is crucified on the Day of Preparation for Passover.

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.

15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!”

“Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked.

“We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.

16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

So, according to Mark, Jesus' disciples ask him where to prepare the Passover meal, they ate it together, (This is my body, etc, etc) Judas betrayed him and he was crucified the next morning.

In Mark, they never get to the meal because Jesus is already crucifified on the Day of Preparation for Passover.

They both can't be true, right?

The "Day of Preparation" is the day before the Sabbath. The Book of Mark specifically explains this much within its account. The "Day of Preparation of Passover" mentioned within John refers to the same "day before the Sabbath" but also makes note that it was during Passover week.

They all make reference to the same day. There is no contradiction.

 

[domer76]

Not only does the crucifixion story have its contradictions, the birth story and even the concept of virgin birth do, too.

The two gospels that even mention birth can’t even get the decade right. One even tries to reconcile Joseph’s lineage to David to agree with OT bullshit about the messiah. WTF difference does THAT make if he’s not even the biological father? “Young woman” was then changed to “virgin” in translations to invent the deity of Christ. They can’t even get straight why Bethlehem when they were really from Nazareth. Oh, that’s right. Changed to agree with prophecy, not because it actually happened.

 

[Into the Night]

Have you ever read Romans 1? (specifically verse 22)

Well put.

 

[Into the Night]

Not only does the crucifixion story have its contradictions, the birth story and even the concept of virgin birth do, too.

The two gospels that even mention birth can’t even get the decade right. One even tries to reconcile Joseph’s lineage to David to agree with OT bullshit about the messiah. WTF difference does THAT make if he’s not even the biological father? “Young woman” was then changed to “virgin” in translations to invent the deity of Christ. They can’t even get straight why Bethlehem when they were really from Nazareth. Oh, that’s right. Changed to agree with prophecy, not because it actually happened.

No contradictions. You can't get away with changing the Bible, Sock.

 

[IBDaMann]

After the Passover meal, Jesus goes to the Garden of.... (I'm not even going to try and spell it),

That's my garden, where you can normally find me, i.e. the Garden of GetSomeMoreOfMe

John has a similar story, but one important difference. Jesus is crucified on the Day of Preparation for Passover.

This isn't a difference. These both refer to the same day. Passover is an event that happens at midnight, it isn't a "day". The passover meal is taken on that very day of preparation for Passover, of which the meal itself is part of the "preparation" for the midnight event (that you want to avoid).

There is no difference; there is no contradiction.

Mark 14: 16-18 "And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And in the evening he cometh with the twelve. And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me."

John 13: 1-4 "Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him; Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself."

 

[NiftyNiblick]

The resurrection and miracles are highly implausible.

Characters like John the Baptist, Herod, Pontius Pilate, Jesus' brother James were real people.

I doubt the bible is considered light reading or entertainment. But the bible helped keep literacy alive in Western Europe during the dark ages, and the bible is largely responsible for the evolution of German, Russian, English into sophisticated literary languages. So I don't think the historical and cultural significance of the bible can be denied.

Thanks for the info, C.
I shan't deny the historical and cultural significance of the bible based on your valid observations.
As for my assessment of its quality as fiction, I'm still comfortable with that.

 

[ZenMode]

The "Day of Preparation" is the day before the Sabbath. The Book of Mark specifically explains this much within its account. The "Day of Preparation of Passover" mentioned within John refers to the same "day before the Sabbath" but also makes note that it was during Passover week.

They all make reference to the same day. There is no contradiction.

I agree. Mark is referring to the day of preparation for the Sabbath. So, in Mark, it's not the day before the Passover meal was eaten but the day before Sabbath. In Mark, Jesus eats the Passover meal (Thursday night) and is crucified the following morning. In John, Jesus doesn't eat the Passover meal but is crucified on the day before the Passover meal was to be eaten.

 

[Yakuda]

I agree. Mark is referring to the day of preparation for the Sabbath. So, in Mark, it's not the day before the Passover meal was eaten but the day before Sabbath. In Mark, Jesus eats the Passover meal (Thursday night) and is crucified the following morning. In John, Jesus doesn't eat the Passover meal but is crucified on the day before the Passover meal was to be eaten.

Citations...

BTW Mark 14:12 "On the first day of the feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the PASSOVER lamb ..."

 

[Cypress]

Thanks for the info, C.
I shan't deny the historical and cultural significance of the bible based on your valid observations.
As for my assessment of its quality as fiction, I'm still comfortable with that.

I've never heard anyone claim the bible is good light reading for entertainment, but I fully agree it's not a book people have on the nightstand for entertainment value.