Isn't a Coronavirus Stimulus check a form of Socialism?

Disagreed. No, I don't buy Trump's lies nor the Democrats lies either.

Again, every time the Democrats bring up "3 million votes" all they do is look like infantile whiners with zero knowledge of the Constitution. I think Trump is a lying POS draft-dodging coward and serial adulterer, but all the fact he won tells me is that the Democrats need to run more honest, trustworthy candidates.

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We are not debating the wording of the Constitution. You said a MAJORITY OF AMERICANS chose tRump. That is blatantly false. A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS chose HRC.

I have never challenged the validity of the EC results. I do wonder if it still has relevance in today's world though. Just my personal opinion.
 
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We are not debating the wording of the Constitution. You said a MAJORITY OF AMERICANS chose tRump. That is blatantly false. A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS chose HRC.

I have never challenged the validity of the EC results. I do wonder if it still has relevance in today's world though. Just my personal opinion.
To be specific, I said this:
A majority of Americans made Trump President. If you seek to have California and New York dictate who becomes President, have you considered changing the Constitution?
 
We are not debating the wording of the Constitution. You said a MAJORITY OF AMERICANS chose tRump. That is blatantly false. A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS chose HRC.

I have never challenged the validity of the EC results. I do wonder if it still has relevance in today's world though. Just my personal opinion.

Actually that is false. Clinton got 48.2% of the vote. That’s not a majority.
 
The implication was that tRump won a plurality of votes. He did not.
Trump won the election as have all Presidents won the election. Are you claiming he did not?

Again, instead of whining about technicalities, try running more honest, less deplorable candidates. ;)
 
To start, I am a "fair trader". Not a "free trader".

To begin with I must provide a more comprehensive standard definition of socialism than I did earlier Here it is: Socialism is both an economic system and an ideology ( a set of fundamental political beliefs and principles) A socialist economy feature public/social and often state ownership of the means of production and organises the operation of the economy by central planning as opposed to market forces. As a political ideology, Socialism is grounded on a number of fundamental tenets, so in order to keep the post as brief as possible, I will only discuss principle which is most important and that is egalitarianism (and I will do that at the end of this post).


The state motto of New Hampshire is ""LIVE FREE OR DIE"" The FREEDOM of the rational individual to act in accordance with his (moral) duty is the supreme value; it trumps justice because justice is contingent upon liberty.


Besides, how would the "fair trader" determine what is truly fair/just ? How would a shop keeper calculate what is the FAIR PRICE to charge Mrs Smith when she wishes to purchase a pound of his pork sausages ?


The free market manages to determine fair prices for commodities very well. (And) a free market, capitalist economy can be relied upon to competently regulate itself MOST of the time. But, unfortunately, the system is not PERFECT; it is vulnerable to human and natural factors that can, in the worst case scenario, precipitate a destructive financial crisis. However such catastrophic financial crises as the Stock Market crash of 1929 (and the ensuing Great Depression), the Global Financial Crisis that was triggered in the US in 2008, and the havoc that the COVID19 virus pandemic could POTENTIALLY bring to bear in the US, are relatively rare.


When this kind of "shit happens", i.e; a major economic crisis/disaster strikes, having the government TEMPORARILY intervene to help treat the financial wounds that have been inflicted until they are properly healed and the market can get back up on its feet is certainly not "socialism on the march." I mean, because President Trump dispenses a financial stimulus to help a US economy that is battling the spread of a deadly virus (COVID-19), are you seriously suggesting that this means Trump is actually a socialist ? That all the years he spent working as businessman and making lots of money were just a clever covert he used to disguise the fact that he was really a crazy Marxist, a - "Red under the bed", determined to bring down the American government , etc ?



Generally speaking, free - market capitalism in the modern-era has been a tremendously successful economic system. Over the past century It has helped lift countless millions of individuals (from all over the world, in particular, from the Developing World) out of poverty and dramatically improved their prospects in all of the major domains of life activity: educational, occupational, social, etc. Likewise, in the West - let me use England as an example - life in the Victorian era was very harsh for the common, working man. The later was paid literally just a penny or two a day by his employer and in consequence, every aspect of his life was a gruelling struggle. For he and his family, there were no comforts or luxuries to be had;, purchases were strictly limited to just the bare, essential basics of: food; clothing; footwear and such like. Today, however, in the year 2020 thanks to capitalism, even a relatively lowly paid Blue-Collar worker in the West is able to buy advanced technology like: iPhones and lap-top computers; labour-saving domestic appliances such as microwave cookers and washing machines; he can also afford a reliable car or motorcycle; likewise entertainments like pop music concerts or the goods required for hobbies like, say, off-road, Mountain Bike riding or skiing or painting are affordable for use in his spare time; good , cheap food can be bought from an amazing range of restaurants, especially in America, and so on. In short, compared to his 19th - century. Victorian counterpart in England, the modern American working man of 2020 has a far, far greater quality of life. And this was all due to capitalism NOT socialism !


Capitalism is not a perfect, fail-proof economic system, I know that. Moreover, since 1980 the dominant economic ideology in the West has been a rapacious version of capitalism called neo-liberalism. Neo-liberalism (or Market Fundamentalism) is an extreme economic doctrine which argues that the market can be trusted to competently regulate itself, and should be allowed to do so free from any intrusive government regulations. The Global Financial Crisis of 2008 proved that that the theory of Neo-liberalism was profoundly flawed. Neo-liberalism is also responsible for generating the monumental income disparities that exist in the US between the so-called (super-rich/wealthy) "1%" and the average American citizen.
 
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It's only Socialism when Democrats help society. When Repubs do it, it is simply a "crisis management" move....)
That said, the trumpanzees are scrounging to put any label on it other than socialism.

Our local NBC news affiliate has of course been running stories about COVID without cease. They had a story a couple days ago about the checks going out. One Reichtard commenter declared that only conservatives should get them because they're the only ones with jobs; all the "libtards" don't work. Ironically, there he was, posting on social media in the middle of the day. No doubt he was "working" from home. :rolleyes: :laugh:
 
We are not debating the wording of the Constitution. You said a MAJORITY OF AMERICANS chose tRump. That is blatantly false. A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS chose HRC.

I have never challenged the validity of the EC results. I do wonder if it still has relevance in today's world though. Just my personal opinion.

of course it's relevant. it was a precondition for states even joining the union and it allows senseful people from being dominated by overpopulated hive mind idiot regions, the real deplorables.
 
To begin with I must provide a more comprehensive standard definition of socialism than I did earlier Here it is: Socialism is both an economic system and an ideology ( a set of fundamental political beliefs and principles) A socialist economy feature public/social and often state ownership of the means of production and organises the operation of the economy by central planning as opposed to market forces. As a political ideology, Socialism is grounded on a number of fundamental tenets, so in order to keep the post as brief as possible, I will only discuss principle which is most important and that is egalitarianism (and I will do that at the end of this post).


The state motto of New Hampshire is ""LIVE FREE OR DIE"" The FREEDOM of the rational individual to act in accordance with his (moral) duty is the supreme value; it trumps justice because justice is contingent upon liberty.


Besides, how would the "fair trader" determine what is truly fair/just ? How would a shop keeper calculate what is the FAIR PRICE to charge Mrs Smith when she wishes to purchase a pound of his pork sausages ?


The free market manages to determine fair prices for commodities very well. (And) a free market, capitalist economy can be relied upon to competently regulate itself MOST of the time. But, unfortunately, the system is not PERFECT; it is vulnerable to human and natural factors that can, in the worst case scenario, precipitate a destructive financial crisis. However such catastrophic financial crises as the Stock Market crash of 1929 (and the ensuing Great Depression), the Global Financial Crisis that was triggered in the US in 2008, and the havoc that the COVID19 virus pandemic could POTENTIALLY bring to bear in the US, are relatively rare.


When this kind of "shit happens", i.e; a major economic crisis/disaster strikes, having the government TEMPORARILY intervene to help treat the financial wounds that have been inflicted until they are properly healed and the market can get back up on its feet is certainly not "socialism on the march." I mean, because President Trump dispenses a financial stimulus to help a US economy that is battling the spread of a deadly virus (COVID-19), are you seriously suggesting that this means Trump is actually a socialist ? That all the years he spent working as businessman and making lots of money were just a clever covert he used to disguise the fact that he was really a crazy Marxist, a - "Red under the bed", determined to bring down the American government , etc ?



Generally speaking, free - market capitalism in the modern-era has been a tremendously successful economic system. Over the past century It has helped lift countless millions of individuals (from all over the world, in particular, from the Developing World) out of poverty and dramatically improved their prospects in all of the major domains of life activity: educational, occupational, social, etc. Likewise, in the West - let me use England as an example - life in the Victorian era was very harsh for the common, working man. The later was paid literally just a penny or two a day by his employer and in consequence, every aspect of his life was a gruelling struggle. For he and his family, there were no comforts or luxuries to be had;, purchases were strictly limited to just the bare, essential basics of: food; clothing; footwear and such like. Today, however, in the year 2020 thanks to capitalism, even a relatively lowly paid Blue-Collar worker in the West is able to buy advanced technology like: iPhones and lap-top computers; labour-saving domestic appliances such as microwave cookers and washing machines; he can also afford a reliable car or motorcycle; likewise entertainments like pop music concerts or the goods required for hobbies like, say, off-road, Mountain Bike riding or skiing or painting are affordable for use in his spare time; good , cheap food can be bought from an amazing range of restaurants, especially in America, and so on. In short, compared to his 19th - century. Victorian counterpart in England, the modern American working man of 2020 has a far, far greater quality of life. And this was all due to capitalism NOT socialism !


Capitalism is not a perfect, fail-proof economic system, I know that. Moreover, since 1980 the dominant economic ideology in the West has been a rapacious version of capitalism called neo-liberalism. Neo-liberalism (or Market Fundamentalism) is an extreme economic doctrine which argues that the market can be trusted to competently regulate itself, and should be allowed to do so free from any intrusive government regulations. The Global Financial Crisis of 2008 proved that that the theory of Neo-liberalism was profoundly flawed. Neo-liberalism is also responsible for generating the monumental income disparities that exist in the US between the so-called (super-rich/wealthy) "1%" and the average American citizen.

when you're bailing out companies, is that really allowing guidance through market forces?
 
Our local NBC news affiliate has of course been running stories about COVID without cease. They had a story a couple days ago about the checks going out. One Reichtard commenter declared that only conservatives should get them because they're the only ones with jobs; all the "libtards" don't work. Ironically, there he was, posting on social media in the middle of the day. No doubt he was "working" from home. :rolleyes: :laugh:

Stupidity abounds on the Conservative side of politics. Many Republicans truly believe that they are better than everyone else.
 
of course it's relevant. it was a precondition for states even joining the union and it allows senseful people from being dominated by overpopulated hive mind idiot regions, the real deplorables.

There are many many things that had relevance eons ago that no longer represent the country as we know it today.
That said, I think that awarding EC votes as a proportion of popular votes does have merit.
 
There are many many things that had relevance eons ago that no longer represent the country as we know it today.
That said, I think that awarding EC votes as a proportion of popular votes does have merit.

it does represent the country as we know it today.

nobody won any states in which they didn't win the popular vote.

the system is fine. you're a moron.
 
Stupidity abounds on the Conservative side of politics. Many Republicans truly believe that they are better than everyone else.

Yep. Do you think that when they get sick and have to be seen, that they request conservative doctors and nurses only? Good luck with *that*. lol
 
Yep. Do you think that when they get sick and have to be seen, that they request conservative doctors and nurses only? Good luck with *that*. lol

Hey, Fowlwoman,

Looks like Joe Biden is almost certain to become the Democratic Party's Presidential nominee.

As you are someone who despises Trump and the Republican Party, I guess that means you'll be voting for Biden ? Right ?

Dachshund
 
Hello Dachshynddawg,

Socialism is primarily an economic ideology. Those who promote it argue that a centralised state should own all of a nation's means of production.

OK, so a government can own some of the means of production and that's not socialism then. Because it's not all. I'm good with that.

Whatever you want to call that, it makes sense to me.

That means, in turn, they are proposing (1) that the state alone should plan and monitor the functioning of the entire economy and (2) that individual ownership of private property is effectively prohibited. When private property is forbidden, the inevitable result is that the freedom of the individual withers and dies; and this is unacceptable because individual liberty (the "Right of Conscience") is the paramount moral value. Thus socialism is an evil ideology. Full Stop.

My, that does sound pretty creepy. No wonder you're so fearful of it. Actually, it sounds more like communism than socialism. Whatever you call it, I am not in favor of the government owning all property. I could see the government owning utilities and the energy supply. Internet service, phone service, water, all of that should be run by government. Schools, courts, prisons, health care, basic transportation - all should be government owned and run. Also parks, libraries, highways, the postal service, basic staple foods, airports, railroads.

The way I see it, basic essentials are most efficiently done in mass quantities, and the biggest mass quantity our nation has is the entire population. No need to go around reinventing the wheel every time somebody needs to flip a light switch on. We should figure out the best way to do something and then cookie-cutter that up to the scale of the entire nation. It makes no sense for anybody to be profiting off the basic things everybody needs, so all the essentials should be done by government. We can definitely use the power of numbers/volume to our advantage.

Everything else in the world, all the nicer things, luxury non essentials, all of that should be done with capitalism.

If you're worried about workers lacking the profit-motive to make them work hard, don't. People like working hard. It passes the day. Most workers prefer to work hard. Sitting around waiting for quitting time is boring and makes for a longer day. Most workers do not earn any more if they work hard. What they get for that is job security. The biggest motivator is not the profit motive at all. That's only for capitalists, owners of capital. The biggest work motivator is fear of losing the job if you don't measure up to co-workers. People working for the government have no profit motive, but they still work hard and take pride in what they do. They are serving the country or state. They make America possible. They can be just as proud to work hard as people in the military, who also have no profit motive, yet work hard.
 
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Hey, Fowlwoman,

Looks like Joe Biden is almost certain to become the Democratic Party's Presidential nominee.

As you are someone who despises Trump and the Republican Party, I guess that means you'll be voting for Biden ? Right ?

Dachshund

Hello Dogdicklicker,

I plan on voting. I plan on voting for whoever wins the (D) nomination, whether it's Bernie, Biden, Santa Claus, or the Tooth Fairy. It is impossible to find any candidate worse than the slime currently occupying our WH.

Best wishes for your recovery,
TOW
 
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