I've decided how I want to die

Mott the Hoople said:
You want a link? Go check a Merck Index for morphine sulfate. It's standard reference book data dude. While you're there check out dose response curve and LD50.
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Again, I will explain it to you one more time. Yes morphine sulfate is a toxic drug. And Yes, I can give you doses of 150 mg that may kill you instantly. I am not arguing against that. So let's park that there for a second.

However, when treating patients with cancer if you titrate the drug appropriately, meaning you give a dose, don't see a good response in a couple of days then increase the dose again and continue that process there is not a MAXIMUM dose of morphine sulfate. It is established medical fact that anyone knowledgable in pain treatment knows. It is clear you know nothing about treating pain in cancer patients. We have established that.


The fact that you bring up the LD50 is astonishing and shows your complete ignorance while trying to sound smart to the rest of the board. LD50 is completely 100% irrelevant to the conversation at hand and has ZERO application in clinical dosing of medications in humans. It is a measurement to see how much of a compound will kill 50% of a given lab animal (usually rats and mice, but you could use any animal). We don't do LD50 studies in humans because they would be unethical. So it is odd why you would bring that up in this conversation. It has ZERO bearing on the topic at hand. Now run along before I am forced to embarrass you further.
 
I Love America said:
what are you even talking about? Did you see the Duragesic table? Did you see the dose of morphine being 1124 mg? That is a shit ton of morphine. If I gave that to you today you would drop over in due course. But, if done carefully and appropriately you can get to doses of 1124 mg and HIGHER. It is what I have been saying the entire time. Yet you seem to want to argue that I am not saying it.

OVERDOSAGE and MAXIMUM are not the same things. You are trying to conflate the two.
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No, you're just playing weasely word games to pretend you didn't say what everyone saw.
 
I Love America said:
Again, I will explain it to you one more time. Yes morphine sulfate is a toxic drug. And Yes, I can give you doses of 150 mg that may kill you instantly. I am not arguing against that. So let's park that there for a second.

However, when treating patients with cancer if you titrate the drug appropriately, meaning you give a dose, don't see a good response in a couple of days then increase the dose again and continue that process there is not a MAXIMUM dose of morphine sulfate. It is established medical fact that anyone knowledgable in pain treatment knows. It is clear you know nothing about treating pain in cancer patients. We have established that.


The fact that you bring up the LD50 is astonishing and shows your complete ignorance while trying to sound smart to the rest of the board. LD50 is completely 100% irrelevant to the conversation at hand and has ZERO application in clinical dosing of medications in humans. It is a measurement to see how much of a compound will kill 50% of a given lab animal (usually rats and mice, but you could use any animal). We don't do LD50 studies in humans because they would be unethical. So it is odd why you would bring that up in this conversation. It has ZERO bearing on the topic at hand. Now run along before I am forced to embarrass you further.
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sigh :palm: no there would be a maximum titration rate. That's not the same as dosage. If a specific dosage of a drug/chemical/toxin exceeds the peak of the dose response curve than that individual would have good probability of dying.

What you are trying to say is that if the titration rate does not exceed the metabolization rate (half life) for a morphine sulfate than you can continue to incrementally increase the rate a dose is given until a specific clinical result is achieved. This is what they mean by "properly titrated". If not properly titrated you could easily exceed a toxic dosage and kill the patient.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
sigh :palm: no there would be a maximum titration rate. That's not the same as dosage. If a specific dosage of a drug/chemical/toxin exceeds the peak of the dose response curve than that individual would have good probability of dying.

What you are trying to say is that if the titration rate does not exceed the metabolization rate (half life) for a morphine sulfate than you can continue to incrementally increase the rate a dose is given until a specific clinical result is achieved. This is what they mean by "properly titrated". If not properly titrated you could easily exceed a toxic dosage and kill the patient.
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Why do you insist on repeating what I am saying? I have already accepted your concession that I am right. You don't have to keep repeating what I am saying
 
Can we please get back to killing Skidmark?

Why do you want to discuss something as morbid as assisted suicide when we can be talking about something pleasant...like killing Skidmark?
 
I Love America said:
Yes, but I would like to discuss ways and means. Do we want maximum suffering or a quick spectacular death?

I for one am all for maximum suffering. Something along the lines of Saw
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I vote for spectacular though it doesn't necessarily have to be quick.

The native Americans have a form of execution they called "The Morning Star". They would stick little splinters of pine into the condemned and when he was covered with them they would set him on fire.
 
Jean said:
When I get too old and sick to keep on living, I want everyone to transport me down to Mt. Erebus in Antarctica and throw me into its lava lake:
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Why wait while you are young and retarded? Get a head start and do it now; the sooner the better. One less moron in the world would benefit EVERYONE.
 
I Love America said:
Again, I will explain it to you one more time. Yes morphine sulfate is a toxic drug. And Yes, I can give you doses of 150 mg that may kill you instantly. I am not arguing against that. So let's park that there for a second.

However, when treating patients with cancer if you titrate the drug appropriately, meaning you give a dose, don't see a good response in a couple of days then increase the dose again and continue that process there is not a MAXIMUM dose of morphine sulfate. It is established medical fact that anyone knowledgable in pain treatment knows. It is clear you know nothing about treating pain in cancer patients. We have established that.


The fact that you bring up the LD50 is astonishing and shows your complete ignorance while trying to sound smart to the rest of the board. LD50 is completely 100% irrelevant to the conversation at hand and has ZERO application in clinical dosing of medications in humans. It is a measurement to see how much of a compound will kill 50% of a given lab animal (usually rats and mice, but you could use any animal). We don't do LD50 studies in humans because they would be unethical. So it is odd why you would bring that up in this conversation. It has ZERO bearing on the topic at hand. Now run along before I am forced to embarrass you further.
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Even though I think ILA is a mega snot gobbler most of the time, he is actually right on this occasion. All he is saying is that patients develop a tolerance to certain drugs, that is hardly a revelation.
evince said:
I provided you with the FACT that your quote by me in your sig




(Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post

you are lying again



this is not about the democrat party)




was me insulting your for mis spelling the Democratic party name.


you like insulting your self or does this mean you will spell it correctly from now on ILA?
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I Love America said:
I haven't voted Republican in the last two Presidential elections. Just because you go down the party line doesn't mean everyone is as shallow a thinker as you
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I don't recall ever voting a straight ticket.

I mean party affiliation is one thing and so is ideology but performance is another. My congressional Rep, Pat Tiberi, is a mushy, whimpy little doughball of man who fervently talks the GOP party line but has done an outstanding job of representing the district, bringing home the bacon and is highly regarded for his constituent service. for the last 4 congressional elections his opponent on the opposite side has usually been a newbie with little public service experience and quite frankly, in the House of Rep, seniority counts a great deal. So I've consistently voted for the little tub of lard based on his over all performance.
 
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