Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Section 210.145 (C)(3)(e). Oh wait....that's the Federal registrar rule for transporting onions......never mind.
judge blocks Wi abortion law
- Thread starter evince
- Start date
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Isn't that the same Church who tried to hide the fact that it's priest were raping kids? Is that the Church you're talking about?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
You call burning witches and building Boston a good thing?
You're one sick fuck 3D!!!
Cancel 2016.11
Darla
He is beginning to try my patience.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
not when you throw in the breathing part.....
?????.....uh, yes......
why should we worry about people starving to death....God will take care of their souls all on his own....
again you demonstrate the ability to create exceptionally stupid interpretations out of something that was pretty clear......
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
I'm sorry, but I agree with him.......I'm on his level as well....you may not have killed a baby with your own hands, but you're an enabler.....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
so was murder, so was war......are you claiming that was just God sorting things out?.....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
Just because the majority might support something or think a certain way, that doesn't make it right. That applies to many things...war, slavery, ... You name it. Just think, if in recent years you guys had gone with the majority on gay marriage ...
SmarterthanYou
rebel
wow, you proles get extremely upset when people upset your little apple cart, don't you? you morons spend so much time disparaging the other side of politics and bitching about court decisions you don't like, but don't let an uppity Libertarian tell you that the system is broke, then it's all out war with you idiots.
tekkychick
New member
So wait - isn't "proles" lower class? DO YOU REALLY THINK ONLY LOWER CLASS WOMEN HAVE ABORTIONS?
wow
SmarterthanYou
rebel
again, proles. don't get too pissed off that I upset your apple cart, or remove the rug from underneath your mental picture of the country.
tekkychick
New member
the only thing you upset was my prior opinion of you - it went way downhill after your posts yesterday.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
then it's a good thing that I've never cared what your opinion of me was. i've no use for someone that doesn't understand irony and sarcasm
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
actually you did try to dehumanize the child. It is human and it is alive, yet you wish to call it by a stage of its development because to you that gives someone a 'choice' about whether they should end that human life.
Cancel 2016.11
Darla
Superfreak and 3D, aren't they the cutest!:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Abortion
Abortion is the induced termination of a pregnancy,[1] often causing fetal pain. As of 2012, it is estimated there have been over 54 million abortions in the United States since 1973.[2] Abortion is a billion-dollar industry in the United States. Although Planned Parenthood likes to claim abortion accounts for just 3% of its services, according to its 2007-08 budget, it received $1.038 billion of revenue, and half to two-thirds relates to its abortion services. (See Planned Parenthood's Budget) Dr. George Tiller "estimated that he performed 250 to 300 late-term abortions in 2003, each costing an average of $6,000."[3]
All of the arguments for abortion fall flat when given serious scrutiny. Right to choice is a misnomer, since moral people can recognize that choosing to murder is a choice worthy of punishment. Right to one's body is no excuse for using that body to harm others. A right to privacy should not permit the taking of life when that life is inconvenient, whether in the privacy of one's own home or own body. And
Contents
[hide]
1 Statistics on abortion
2 Arguments On Abortion
2.1 Right to Choose
2.1.1 Rare Circumstances: Life of Mother and Rape
2.2 Right to One's Body
2.3 Right to Privacy
2.4 Women Choose, Not Men
3 When Does Life Begin?
3.1 Premature Birth
3.2 Fetal Development
4 Health Concerns
4.1 Mental Health Risks From Abortion
4.2 Abortion and Breast Cancer
4.3 Abortion Causes Future Harm with Premature Births
4.4 Other Health Risks from Abortion
5 History
5.1 Adolf Hitler and Abortion
5.2 Hall v. Lefkowitz
5.3 NARAL's Lies About Back-Alley Abortions
5.4 Roe v. Wade
5.5 Present Day
6 Reasons Given For Abortions
7 Public Opinion
7.1 Legal or Illegal
7.2 Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice
7.3 By Trimester
7.3.1 1st Trimester
7.3.2 2nd Trimester
7.3.3 3rd Trimester
7.4 By Circumstances
7.5 Pro-Life Initiatives
8 Abortion Alternatives
9 Planned Parenthood's Budget
10 Targeted Demographics
10.1 Women in China
10.2 Minority Communities
11 Political Support of Abortion
11.1 Pro-Life Democrats
11.2 Politics and Demographics
12 Ultrasound images
13 See Also
14 External Links
15 References
as Thomas Lucente Jr. once pointed out, saying one can't criticize a woman's choice to murder her children is the same as saying one can't criticize the president without being the president.[4] Both life of the mother and rape are rare circumstances accounting for less than 1% of all abortions, with little bearing on the broader "abortion on demand" issue, particularly since all legislation the Pro-Life movement has been putting out recently has included exceptions for them, and many states had laws allowing abortion for such cases before Roe v. Wade - abortion was legalized for other reasons. (See Arguments On Abortion)
Ultimately, this debate is about when a fetus becomes a human being worthy of all applicable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness under the Declaration of Independence, for once it is we should not take its life lightly. And when it comes to that, 18,150 abortions occur after the 21st week of pregnancy[5] - the earliest point children can be born prematurely and live.[6] An additional 45,980 abortions occur in the 16th-20th weeks of pregnancy.[5] These are 60 thousand abortions each year that are clearly murder, since the child is at or near the same stage of pregnancy as children born prematurely via C-Section. Furthermore, substantial fetal development occurs within the first 12 weeks (1st trimester) of pregnancy, including brain wave activity at 6 weeks, complete body sensitivity at 10 weeks, and all facial expressions (including smiling) at 11 weeks.[7] By not erring on the side of caution when potentially infringing on the inalienable right to life given by our Creator, the Pro-Choice movement has brought the blood of countless children on their hands, and on our nation's. (See When Does Life Begin?)
A growing body of evidence increasingly suggests that abortion is linked to Breast Cancer, later premature births, and other health concerns. Millions of women who had an abortion later suffer psychologically or physically from it, and support groups exist to help.[8] Many victims of abortion find healing by speaking out against, and discouraging, similar harm to other mothers and their children.[9] "Abortion doesn't solve your problems, it only creates different ones," warned a full-page ad by women who had abortions.[10] Abortion always ends the life of the unborn child, typically by dismemberment. Abortion increases the risk of breast cancer, future premature birth, mental illness, and other long-term health problems for the mother, as detailed below. (See Health Concerns)
One of NARAL's founders, Bernard Nathanson, acknowledged that NARAL in the early days of the Pro-Choice movement simply fabricated statistics on back-alley abortions; inflating the actual numbers ten-fold to get abortion legalized. Rather than making abortion rare, the annual number of abortions has increased 1500% since Roe v. Wade.[11] (See History) Gallup polling in 2012 reveals that just 24% of Americans support abortion after the first 12 weeks of pregnancy,[12] even though abortion is allowed in all 9 months. [13] Just 25% believe abortion should be legal under all circumstances, and an additional 13% believe it should be legal under most circumstances. Most Americans believe abortion should usually be illegal save in rare cases.[12] (See Public Opinion)
Abortion in Poland declined by 99% after communism was overthrown (and abortion abolished[14]), and women's health has dramatically improved there due to fewer abortions.[15]
Statistics on abortion
As of 2012, it is estimated there has been over 54 million babies murdered by abortion since the Supreme Court handed down its 1973 Roe v. Wade decision. After reaching 25 percent from a high of over 1.6 million in the year 1990, the number of abortions performed annually in the U.S. has leveled off at about 1.2 million infants murdered by abortion a year, based on data from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and the Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI).[2]
Approximately 22% of all U.S. pregnancies ended in abortion.[16]
Only about 1 percent each year are attributed to rape and incest.[17] 40% of women ages 15 to 44 have had at least one abortion. 4 out of 10 teen pregnancies end in murder by abortion. Based on the rate of abortion, it was estimated (2000) that 43 percent of American women would have at least one abortion by the age of 45.
7 out of 10 U.S. women are sexually active (usually as fornicators) but do not want to become pregnant.[18]
Women who have never married and are not cohabiting account for 45% of all abortions. 57% of all women having abortions between 15-44 are in their 20’s. 36% of non-Hispanic women are abortions were white, 30% are non-Hispanic black, and 25% are hispanic.[19]
37% of women killing babies by abortion were Protestant, (include those who identified as “Christian” but who did not specify a denomination) while 28% were Catholic, and 20% identified themselves as born-again, evangelical, charismatic or fundamentalist (in 2000, some 13% of abortion patients aged 18 and older identified as born-again or evangelical before the question was reworded slightly for the 2008 survey), while 27% gave no religious affiliation, increasing from 22% in 2000. (Protestants were under-represented among those committing abortion in proportion to the total number of Protestants nationwide, and the relative abortion rate for this group was lower than the rate for all women.)[19]
Although 66% of women having abortions had some type of health insurance, 57% paid for their abortion out of pocket. Among women with private health insurance, 63% paid out of pocket.[19]
Arguments On Abortion
The following are some common Pro-Choice arguments on abortion, and problems with the reasoning.
Right to Choose
The obvious question not being confronted is what choice is at stake? The choice to kill another human being to bypass the consequences and responsibilities that should accompany the choice to create another life; in essence the choice to murder one's own children so sex can be engaged in freely without responsibility or consequence.[20] Sometimes women die from abortion.[21] Since abortion is deliberate and thought about in advance, it is comparable to a premeditated killing.[22]
Rare Circumstances: Life of Mother and Rape
BBC News has an article called "Abortion in self-defence" arguing that abortion should be allowed in cases where the mother's life and health are at risk, and that this is justifiable self-defense. However, BBC News acknowledges that abortion is NOT justified for the following reasons:
“ "But supposing the mother is not in physical danger, what then? There are a number of cases where some people argue that a woman should have the right to an abortion, such as: damage to mental health, damage to family, damage to career prospects, damage to financial prospects, damage to plans for her life. The self-defence argument for abortion seems to fail here, because although a threat to life can be a defence to a charge of killing someone, none of the above would be an adequate defence in a case of homicide, nor would they be regarded as reasons that justified euthanasia. But if we don't regard the foetus as a person with a right to live, or if we regard it as a being that doesn't have a full right to life, then these cases of self-defence may be arguable."
-BBC News.[23]
”
However, (A) danger to life of the mother, like rape, is a very rare circumstance that accounts for less than 1% of all abortions[17], (B) all major legislation put out by the Right to Life movement over the past decade has included exceptions allowing abortions for rape and life of the mother (e.g. Mexico City Policy, Born Alive Infant Protection Act, Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, etc.) and (C) at least 13 states had legislation allowing abortion for rape or life of the mother BEFORE Roe v. Wade[24] - abortion was legalized for other reasons.
The bottom line is that apart from such extremely rare circumstances, BBC News acknowledges that "The self-defence argument for abortion seems to fail here, because although a threat to life can be a defence to a charge of killing someone, none of the above would be an adequate defence in a case of homicide, nor would they be regarded as reasons that justified euthanasia."[23] Choosing to kill another person, in other words, is unjustifiable unless the mother's life is in danger or, debatably, if rape occurred. In fact, those who bring up cases like rape and life of the mother are doing so because, deep inside, they themselves know that choosing to murder another human being is justifiable only under such extreme circumstances, and NOT for abortion on demand.
The only way to justify abortion apart from such circumstances is, as BBC News says, "if we don't regard the foetus as a person with a right to live, or if we regard it as a being that doesn't have a full right to life".[23] You see, this is not about the right to choose at all, and such a slogan distracts from the real issue - the real issue is whether the fetus is a human being deserving of a full right to life. Because if it is a human being worthy of the right to life, then there is no excuse for "choosing to kill" via abortion on demand.
Right to One's Body
The Pro-Choice movement likes to say that women should have a right to their bodies. However, such a right should logically not allow one to harm others with that body, including physical assault, murder, rape, or theft, and therefore, this is not an absolute right, but a privilege that is not intended to exceed another's unalienable rights, including the right to life. As Hugh V. McLachlan of Glasgow Caledonian University pointed out in 1997, there is no entitlement to one's body and "we have rights duties, liabilities, restrictions and disadvantages as well as rights concerning our own bodies."
“ "Consider the assumption at issue in the abstract: 'That particular X is your X and, therefore, you are entitled to do what you want with it'. As a matter of pure logic, the claim is an absurdity. What if 'X' stands for a Thompson Machine Gun? Should we say: 'That is your machine gun and, therefore, you can do whatever you like with it?' On the contrary, although there might be some things which you and only you can of right do to and with the gun, if that particular machine gun is your machine gun then it is incumbent upon you in particular to ensure that certain things are not done with it. Is the situation any different when 'X' pertains to one's body or to parts of it? I do not think so."
-Hugh V. McLachlan, Glasgow Caledonian University.[25]
”
As McLachlan continues to point out, this emphasis on rights neglects the other side of the coin, responsibilities or duties. He gives on pg. 177 the example of an insurance policy, and how using one's body to commit suicide can invalidate such a contract.[25] Logically, creating another human life should likewise bring responsibly for actions toward that life - how is the decision to create another human life of lesser importance than the decision to sign an insurance contract? Why should one be able to kill a separate person to void the sexual decision to bring about another life, yet not be able to kill oneself without voiding an insurance contract?
“ "Certainly a woman has a right to control her own body, but the unborn entity, though for a time living inside her body, is not part of her body. Hence, abortion is not justified, since no one's right to personal autonomy is so strong that it permits the arbitrary execution of others."
-Francis J. Beckwith, Christian Research Journal.[26]
”
Ultimately, the real question is whether the fetus in question is another human being to be accorded unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness under the Declaration of Independence, for if so, no right to one's body should give power to infringe on its unalienable right to life. Your right to your body does not include the right, in other words, to kill others using that body to avoid the responsibilities and consequences of a sexual decision to create another life. That is what in the real world is called "murder" and it is reprehensible. Therefore, the real question is at what point a fetus becomes a human being.
Right to Privacy
To get abortion legalized, the Pro-Choice movement had to argue that women should have a "right to privacy".[27] However, logically, if the fetus is a human being and thus murder would be committed, privacy is no excuse for such murder. Logically, killing someone in the privacy of one's own home should no more be an excuse for murder than killing them in the privacy of one's body. Furthermore, as Judge Henry J. Friendly pointed out in the nation's first major abortion case, Hall v. Lefkowitz, abortion is actually a complete violation of privacy when you look at it, requiring intervention in a woman's most private areas by a physician and variety of medical personnel.
“ A holding that the privacy of sexual intercourse is protected against governmental intrusion scarcely carries as a corollary that when this has resulted in conception, government may not forbid destruction of the fetus. The type of abortion the plaintiffs particularly wish to protect against governmental sanction is the antithesis of privacy. The woman consents to intervention in the uterus by a physician, with the usual retinue of assistants, nurses, and other paramedical personnel, indeed the condition calling for such intervention may very likely have been established by clinical tests... Yet, even if we were to take plaintiffs’ legal position that the legislature cannot constitutionally interfere with a woman’s right to do as she will with her own body so long as no harm is done to others, the argument does not support the conclusion plaintiffs would have us draw from it. For we cannot say the New York legislature lacked a rational basis for considering that abortion causes such harm. Even if we should put aside the interests of the father, negligible indeed in the many cases when he has abandoned the prospective mother but not in all, the legislature could permissibly consider the fetus itself to deserve protection.[28] ”
Women Choose, Not Men
The Pro-Choice movement likes to say men and fathers should have no say in the abortion debate, only women. However, as Thomas J. Lucente Jr. points out, this is similar to saying one can't criticize the President unless one is the President.
“ "The pro-abortion crowd will argue that because I am a man, I should not be allowed to have an opinion on abortion, unless, of course, I support the mass murder of 50 million babies in the last 39 years. That's akin to saying I can't criticize the president unless I have been the president."
-Thomas J. Lucente Jr.[4]
”
As Alan Keyes has pointed out, the Pro-Choice movement essentially is arguing for the baby's rights to be dependent on the mother's desire for it, making women slave-owners, essentially - this is very different from the Declaration of Independence which says the Creator gives us our unalienable rights, rather than them being dependent upon other people.[29]
“ "Either you can subscribe to the American creed which says that God endowed us with our rights, or you can subscribe to the abortion creed which says that those rights are the consequences of our mother's will."
-Alan Keyes, speech at Southern Methodist University, Feb. 24, 1997.[30]
”
“ "... abortion is to our time what slavery was to the 19th Century, and if anyone of conscience went anywhere in the 19th Century and did not confront the American people with the evil of slavery, then they were not doing what statesmanship required... Well, it's a part of her body utterly dependent on her body, not viable apart from her body. She has, therefore, absolute power over this being, and given that absolute power she has the absolute right to dispose of it according to her will. We don't recognize what that's saying? What that's saying is that power makes for right. Might makes for right. If I have you in my power, I may dispose of you and your life according to my will. And if that argument is now accepted, and we have embraced it as a fundamental principle of law, then we have rejected the right principle. For if our right, our most basic and conditional right, the right to life itself comes to us not from God but from our mother's choice, then there is no human right that transcends in its claim, human choice and human power. Abortion is the paradigm, the ultimate paradigm of despotism, tyranny, oppression, slavery, holocaust."
-Alan Keyes, speech in San Francisco, March 3, 2003.[31]
”
Ultimately, every American has a responsibility to stand up for the rights of other Americans when they are being murdered - regardless of gender. And to say a mother should be able to murder her children whenever she feels like it, apart from the father's opinions, is simply wrong.
When Does Life Begin?
Logically, we ought to be erring on the side of caution when potentially infringing on another person's inalienable right to life, rather than seeing how close we can come to committing murder without doing so. Abortion in the U.S. is legal in all 9 months (36 weeks) of pregnancy.[13]
Premature Birth
Even though children can be born as early as 21 weeks after pregnancy[6] the Guttmacher Institute, Planned Parenthood's research arm, reports that 1.5% of the 1.21 million abortions in the United States occur after the 21st week of pregnancy.[5] Therefore, 18,150 abortions occur each year after the earliest point that children can be born prematurely and live. An additional 3.8% occur 16-20 weeks after pregnancy, an additional 45,980 abortions each year that are most certainly murder given proximity to time of premature birth.[5] Why is a baby considered human outside the womb, yet nothing more than a fetus to be aborted at or near the same point in pregnancy if still inside the womb? And what will abortionists argue? That this is "only" 50-60 thousand innocent lives being taken each year?
Fetal Development
“ "Modern biology instructs that the genetic code that will dictate the entire future of the fetus is formed as early as the ___ day after conception; the fetus is thus something more than inert matter. The rules of property and of tort have come increasingly to recognize its rights."
-Judge Henry Friendly, Hall v. Lefkowitz.[28]
”
According to Brian Clowes, Ph.D[7], as cited by the Pro-Life Action League[32], fetal development occurs as follows after conception:
2 weeks: First completed brain cells appear.
3 weeks: Heart begins beating, eyes form; brain, spinal column, and nervous system virtually complete.
4 weeks: Muscle development, arm and leg buds visible, neocortical cells appear, blood flows in baby's veins separate from mother's blood.
5 weeks: Pituitary gland forms, mouth, ears, and nose take shape.
6 weeks: Brain waves can be detected.
7 weeks: Cartilage skeleton completely formed, umbilical cord complete, brain coordinates voluntary muscle movement and involuntary organ movement, lips sensitive to touch.
8 weeks: Based on nervous system development, a fetus can likely feel pain, teeth present, all organs present save lungs, taste buds and fingerprints forming, responds to tapping on amniotic sac.
9 weeks: Fingernails form, can bend its fingers around an object and suck its thumb.
10 weeks: All parts of body sensitive to touch; can swallow, squint, frown, and pucker brow.
11 weeks: Breathing amniotic fluid and does so until birth, urination, all facial expressions (including smiling) possible, taste buds complete.
12 weeks: Can kick, turn over, make a fist, hiccup, cry, open its mouth, press its lips together, and practice breathing.
13 weeks: All senses are present, including vocal chords.
20 weeks: Can be surprised by loud external noises.
23 weeks: A fetus demonstrates REM (Rapid Eye Movement).
4 months: Can grasp, swim, and turn somersaults.
6 months: Hair growth on head and eyebrows, eyelashes form.
7 months: A fetus' hands can support its entire weight.
8 months: Fetus weighs more than 4 lbs., all body systems present.
9 months: After this point, the fetus gains a half lb. each week and 41 of the 45 total generations of cell replication have already taken place.
next argument please!
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
http://www.abort73.com/videos/this_is_abortion/
for those pro 'choice' people. Where is that childs choice?
for those pro 'choice' people. Where is that childs choice?
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
"proles" has a Trinity-specific meaning......they would tell you what it means, but then they would have to kill you......