Kerry reverts to his roots

Truth Detector said:
Again; read and become informed instead of a parrot of moronic DNC talking points:

January 23, 1973 - President Nixon announces that an agreement has been reached which will "end the war and bring peace with honor."

January 27, 1973 - The Paris Peace Accords are signed by the U.S., North Vietnam, South Vietnam and the Viet Cong. Under the terms, the U.S. agrees to immediately halt all military activities and withdraw all remaining military personnel within 60 days. The North Vietnamese agree to an immediate cease-fire and the release of all American POWs within 60 days. An estimated 150,000 North Vietnamese soldiers presently in South Vietnam are allowed to remain. Vietnam is still divided. South Vietnam is considered to be one country with two governments, one led by President Thieu, the other led by Viet Cong, pending future reconciliation.

January 27, 1973 - Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird announces the draft is ended in favor of voluntary enlistment.

January 27, 1973 - The last American soldier to die in combat in Vietnam, Lt. Col. William B. Nolde, is killed.

March 29, 1973 - The last remaining American troops withdraw from Vietnam as President Nixon declares "the day we have all worked and prayed for has finally come."

America's longest war, and its first defeat, thus concludes. During 15 years of military involvement, over 2 million Americans served in Vietnam with 500,000 seeing actual combat. 47,244 were killed in action, including 8000 airmen. There were 10,446 non-combat deaths. 153,329 were seriously wounded, including 10,000 amputees. Over 2400 American POWs/MIAs were unaccounted for as of 1973.

Nixons second term began in January 1973. DUH. :rolleyes:
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Sure did, FIVE years after he promised an exit from 'nam. And thousands of Americans died during those five years.
 
christiefan915 said:
Well, philly? You going to ignore how the Army lied and hid its own atrocities for decades?

"The Blade's investigation began after the newspaper obtained 22 pages of classified Army records detailing atrocities by Tiger Force.

The records of the Army's Criminal Investigation Command were just the start.
Reporters reviewed volumes of research on the Vietnam War, finding no mention of the Army's investigation of the platoon's atrocities.
They inspected thousands of declassified records of the case from the National Archives in suburban Washington and obtained hundreds of additional classified documents of the case. They also interviewed dozens of former Tiger Force soldiers.
The Blade sent reporters Michael D. Sallah and Mitch Weiss, as well as photographer Andy Morrison, to the Central Highlands of Vietnam, where they found witnesses to the atrocities.
Reporter Joe Mahr joined the team as the newspaper pieced together a story the U.S. Army never wanted told."
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Do you want the Vietnam war memorial wall in Washington DC torn down?

Answer: Yes you do.

Why? Because war criminals should never get a memorial in their honor.
 
christiefan915 said:
And I oppose Obama too. What's your point?
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That you're a communist leaning, sympathizing leftist who honors your victory in southeast Asia from older heroes like Rana but at the same time, it's important for you and your ilk to keep pushing this lie that the American military in Vietnam were nothing but a bunch of war criminals.
 
Truth Detector said:
Are you desperately trying to assert that Eisenhower got us involved in Vietnam? REALLY?

Read; become informed:

During his term, Eisenhower will greatly increase U.S. military aid to the French in Vietnam to prevent a Communist victory. U.S. military advisors will continue to accompany American supplies sent to Vietnam.

President Eisenhower dismisses the conventional air raid and the nuclear option after getting a strong negative response to such actions from America's chief ally, Britain. Eisenhower also decides against sending U.S. ground troops to rescue the French, citing the likelihood of high casualty rates in the jungles around Dien Bien Phu. No action is taken.

January 1961 - Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev pledges support for "wars of national liberation" throughout the world. His statement greatly encourages Communists in North Vietnam to escalate their armed struggle to unify Vietnam under Ho Chi Minh.

January 20, 1961- John Fitzgerald Kennedy is inaugurated as the 35th U.S. President and declares "...we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to insure the survival and the success of liberty."

The youthful Kennedy administration is inexperienced in matters regarding Southeast Asia. Kennedy's Secretary of Defense, 44-year-old Robert McNamara, along with civilian planners recruited from the academic community, will play a crucial role in deciding White House strategy for Vietnam over the next several years. Under their leadership, the United States will war to force a political settlement.

However, the U.S. will be opposed by an enemy dedicated to total military victory "...whatever the sacrifices, however long the struggle...until Vietnam is fully independent and reunified," as stated by Ho Chi Minh.

May 1961 - President Kennedy sends 400 American Green Beret 'Special Advisors' to South Vietnam to train South Vietnamese soldiers in methods of 'counter-insurgency' in the fight against Viet Cong guerrillas.

The role of the Green Berets soon expands to include the establishment of Civilian Irregular Defense Groups (CIDG) made up of fierce mountain men known as the Montagnards. These groups establish a series of fortified camps strung out along the mountains to thwart infiltration by North Vietnamese.

October 24, 1961 - On the sixth anniversary of the Republic of South Vietnam, President Kennedy sends a letter to President Diem and pledges "the United States is determined to help Vietnam preserve its independence..."

President Kennedy then sends additional military advisors along with American helicopter units to transport and direct South Vietnamese troops in battle, thus involving Americans in combat operations. Kennedy justifies the expanding U.S. military role as a means "...to prevent a Communist takeover of Vietnam which is in accordance with a policy our government has followed since 1954." The number of military advisors sent by Kennedy will eventually surpass 16,000.

August 4, 1964 - Although immediate doubts arise concerning the validity of the second attack, the Joint Chiefs of Staff strongly recommend a retaliatory bombing raid against North Vietnam.

Press reports in America greatly embellish the second attack with spectacular eyewitness accounts although no journalists had been on board the destroyers.

At the White House, President Johnson decides to retaliate. Thus, the first bombing of North Vietnam by the United States occurs as oil facilities and naval targets are attacked without warning by 64 U.S. Navy fighter bombers. "Our response for the present will be limited and fitting," President Johnson tells Americans during a midnight TV appearance, an hour after the attack began. "We Americans know, although others appear to forget, the risk of spreading conflict. We still seek no wider war."

Two Navy jets are shot down during the bombing raids, resulting in the first American prisoner of war, Lt. Everett Alvarez of San Jose, California, who is taken to an internment center in Hanoi, later dubbed the "Hanoi Hilton" by the nearly six hundred American airmen who become POWs.

March 8, 1965 - The first U.S. combat troops arrive in Vietnam as 3500 Marines land at China Beach to defend the American air base at Da Nang. They join 23,000 American military advisors already in Vietnam.

May 3, 1965 - The first U.S. Army combat troops, 3500 men of the 173rd Airborne Brigade, arrive in Vietnam.

December 25, 1965 - The second pause in the bombing of North Vietnam occurs. This will last for 37 days while the U.S. attempts to pressure North Vietnam into a negotiated peace. However, the North Vietnamese denounce the bombing halt as a "trick" and continue Viet Cong terrorist activities in the South.

By year's end U.S. troop levels in Vietnam reached 184,300. An estimated 90,000 South Vietnamese soldiers deserted in 1965, while an estimated 35,000 soldiers from North Vietnam infiltrated the South via the Ho Chi Minh trail. Up to 50 percent of the countryside in South Vietnam is now under some degree of Viet Cong control.

December 27, 1966 - The U.S. mounts a large-scale air assault against suspected Viet Cong positions in the Mekong Delta using Napalm and hundreds of tons of bombs.

By year's end, U.S. troop levels reach 389,000 with 5008 combat deaths and 30,093 wounded. Over half of the American causalities are caused by snipers and small-arms fire during Viet Cong ambushes, along with handmade booby traps and mines planted everywhere in the countryside by Viet Cong. American Allies fighting in Vietnam include 45,000 soldiers from South Korea and 7000 Australians. An estimated 89,000 soldiers from North Vietnam infiltrated the South via the Ho Chi Minh trail in 1966.

July 1967 - General Westmoreland requests an additional 200,000 reinforcements on top of the 475,000 soldiers already scheduled to be sent to Vietnam, which would bring the U.S. total in Vietnam to 675,000. President Johnson agrees only to an extra 45,000.

September 30, 1968 - The 900th U.S. aircraft is shot down over North Vietnam.

November 27, 1968 - President-elect Nixon asks Harvard professor Henry Kissinger to be his National Security Advisor. Kissinger accepts.

By year's end, U.S. troop levels reached 495,000 with 30,000 American deaths to date. In 1968, over a thousand a month were killed.

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/vietnam/index-1961.html
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Did I say he actually got us involved or do you have reading comprehension problems?

Your time line is selective, no surprise there. This country's had involvement since 'Nam was still called French Indochina and it spanned presidents of both parties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_the_United_States_in_the_Vietnam_War
 
christiefan915 said:
We should not be meddling in other countries' business, period.
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Why; because you say so? What do you mean by “meddling?” Provide some examples of this “meddling.”

christiefan915 said:
No, we should not have gotten involved in Kuwait. It was a farce, just a few years earlier Saddam was our pal and Rummy was shaking hands with him.
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Why; because you say so? Apparently a lot of other nations and citizens felt otherwise.

So you think we should ignore member states in the UN and our allies who get invaded by despotic megalomaniacs who commit atrocities?

christiefan915 said:
It was a farce, just a few years earlier Saddam was our pal and Rummy was shaking hands with him.
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Saddam was never our pal; this is another moronic DNC/terrorist talking point you parrot in a vacuum of reality, the truth or the facts.

christiefan915 said:
No, I do not support Obama on Syria, as I've said countless times.
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Did you vote for Obama?
 
christiefan915 said:
Sure did, FIVE years after he promised an exit from 'nam. And thousands of Americans died during those five years.
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So you think that Nixon could have extracted us from a six year war and major commitment without an agreement from the Communists and should have instantly abandoned our South Vietnamese ally?

I am amused by this Liberal hate for Nixon who got us out of a war started by Democrats and instituted many beloved Liberal policies.
 
christiefan915 said:
Did I say he actually got us involved or do you have reading comprehension problems?
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You inferred it with your incoherent ramblings; I have no problems with comprehending that your efforts are disingenuous, politically confused and lacking honesty and historic facts.

christiefan915 said:
Your time line is selective, no surprise there. This country's had involvement since 'Nam was still called French Indochina and it spanned presidents of both parties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_the_United_States_in_the_Vietnam_War
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Our military involvement didn’t occur until Kennedy sent Green Beret’s in and Johnson sent in troops.

It wasn’t selective, the link was posted; I only included the relevant parts to support my argument. Apparently that is above your comprehension level.
 
philly rabbit said:
Do you want the Vietnam war memorial wall in Washington DC torn down?

Answer: Yes you do.

Why? Because war criminals should never get a memorial in their honor.
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Cite chapter and verse where I said all Americans in 'Nam were war criminals.

Your arguments are really lame. The proof of what SOME Americans did in Nam was validated, recorded, and covered up by the government. Are you angry because all this stuff came out 30 years after the fact? Bet you love Snowden, though, for what he leaked on Obama's watch.
 
philly rabbit said:
That you're a communist leaning, sympathizing leftist who honors your victory in southeast Asia from older heroes like Rana but at the same time, it's important for you and your ilk to keep pushing this lie that the American military in Vietnam were nothing but a bunch of war criminals.
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The lying is on your shoulders, buddy. None of us said the entire American military was a bunch of war criminals. But the proof is indisputable that some were, and that the military and the government did nothing about it except cover it up for decades.

I'm still waiting for your response on Camil and Ridenhour. Were they lying about the atrocities also? And the others who testified at the hearings, were they lying?
 
Truth Detector said:
You inferred it with your incoherent ramblings; I have no problems with comprehending that your efforts are disingenuous, politically confused and lacking honesty and historic facts.

Our military involvement didn’t occur until Kennedy sent Green Beret’s in and Johnson sent in troops.

It wasn’t selective, the link was posted; I only included the relevant parts to support my argument. Apparently that is above your comprehension level.
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You're disingenuous. What do you think "military advisors" are? They trained and ASSISTED the ARVN; often they fought alongside them.

This is a serious subject and a part of history that doesn't show the US in the best light. Nevertheless I'm still laughing at you when I read your comments, because you haven't shown the intellectual capability of arguing a single point without insulting the other person. If that's meant to be intimidating, it's not working. If you think it makes you look superior, think again.
 
philly rabbit said:
I didn't say it was the only one. It wasn't the only one but in modern warfare and the way it's conducted, it's never the only one. Your boy Kerry was giving the impression at his winter soldier conference that these war atrocities were being committed by U.S. forces every day all the time and they were not in any way, every day occurrences.

Kerry and his associates wanted the communists to win that war in order to drastically change U.S. foreign policy so he lied through his teeth.
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http://www.vvaw.org/commentary/?id=399
 
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