Kerry reverts to his roots

[Truth Detector]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668

So you are gullibly willing to swallow a pile of hearsay in order to retain your partisan blinders; got it. ::wink wink::

It took Nixon some major bombing and three years to get the Communists to relent; this idea that Johnson was close requires the willing suspension of disbelief, gullibility and disregard for good common sense.

Carry on; you're not interested in the truth or the historical record and you can't even remember what your point is.

 

[Taft2016]

Nixon sabotaged his own peace talks? Good lord; you are a patently uninformed partisan parrot aren't you?

This is what the liberals do here.

You corner them, and *BOOM*, they try to turn the conversation back to something completely unrelated from 40 years ago.

 

[Phantasmal]

So you are gullibly willing to swallow a pile of hearsay in order to retain your partisan blinders; got it. ::wink wink::

It took Nixon some major bombing and three years to get the Communists to relent; this idea that Johnson was close requires the willing suspension of disbelief, gullibility and disregard for good common sense.

Carry on; you're not interested in the truth or the historical record and you can't even remember what your point is.

I say the last statement is projection, you being the one not interested in history. The other posters seem able to follow my point. It is just another one of your back door insults. You think it strengthens your very wrong position when it doesn't.

 

[Phantasmal]

This is what the liberals do here.

You corner them, and *BOOM*, they try to turn the conversation back to something completely unrelated from 40 years ago.

Big Money is a liberal?

What is his thread about?

 

[maineman]

Once again the leftist is historically challenged; South Vietnam didn't go communist, it was conquered after brutal fighting and after the Democrat controlled US Congress refused to abide by the agreement we made to the South Vietnamese which haunts us to this day.

After the conquest of the South through force, millions fled resulting in estimates of 200,000 to 400,000 deaths at sea.

you failed to answer the question.

 

[Truth Detector]

Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post

Once again the leftist is historically challenged; South Vietnam didn't go communist, it was conquered after brutal fighting and after the Democrat controlled US Congress refused to abide by the agreement we made to the South Vietnamese which haunts us to this day.

After the conquest of the South through force, millions fled resulting in estimates of 200,000 to 400,000 deaths at sea.

you failed to answer the question.

The statement above was not related to a question, but a false statement by a Liberal.

 

[NOVA]

You're disingenuous. What do you think "military advisors" are? They trained and ASSISTED the ARVN; often they fought alongside them.

This is a serious subject and a part of history that doesn't show the US in the best light. Nevertheless I'm still laughing at you when I read your comments, because you haven't shown the intellectual capability of arguing a single point without insulting the other person. If that's meant to be intimidating, it's not working. If you think it makes you look superior, think again.

Whatever....
-------------------------------------------------------
I guess you could go back to September 1950, the United States created the Military Assistance Group to screen French requests for aid, advise on strategy, and train Vietnamese soldiers. By 1954, the US spent US$1 billion in support of the French military effort, 80 percent of the cost of the war.
US advisors present, but not combat troops
Truman was President (D) or


http://tinyurl.com/2ff6f6k
First U.S. Ground Troops Sent to Vietnam

As the fighting between the Viet Cong and the South Vietnamese continued, the U.S. continued to send additional advisers to South Vietnam. When the North Vietnamese fired directly upon two U.S. ships in international waters on August 2 and 4, 1964 (known as the Gulf of Tonkin Incident), Congress responded with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. This resolution gave the President the authority to escalate U.S. involvement in Vietnam. President Lyndon Johnson used that authority to order the first U.S. ground troops to Vietnam in March 1965.

 

[maineman]

Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post

Once again the leftist is historically challenged; South Vietnam didn't go communist, it was conquered after brutal fighting and after the Democrat controlled US Congress refused to abide by the agreement we made to the South Vietnamese which haunts us to this day.

After the conquest of the South through force, millions fled resulting in estimates of 200,000 to 400,000 deaths at sea.

The statement above was not related to a question, but a false statement by a Liberal.

Here... in case you lost track...here is the question again: After the fall of Saigon the country went communist. Now explain how US foreign policy was drastically changed because of it.

 

[Big Money]

Originally Posted by maineman View Post daily basis??? I don't believe that Kerry said atrocities occurred on a daily basis.


Ooops: I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

https://facultystaff.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html

Admiral Maineman won't reverse course.

 

[NOVA]

Here... in case you lost track...here is the question again: After the fall of Saigon the country went communist. Now explain how US foreign policy was drastically changed because of it.

Didn't Philly Rabbit make the claim ....why not ask him ?

 

[Phantasmal]

Whatever....
-------------------------------------------------------
I guess you could go back to September 1950, the United States created the Military Assistance Group to screen French requests for aid, advise on strategy, and train Vietnamese soldiers. By 1954, the US spent US$1 billion in support of the French military effort, 80 percent of the cost of the war.
US advisors present, but not combat troops
Truman was President (D) or


http://tinyurl.com/2ff6f6k
First U.S. Ground Troops Sent to Vietnam

As the fighting between the Viet Cong and the South Vietnamese continued, the U.S. continued to send additional advisers to South Vietnam. When the North Vietnamese fired directly upon two U.S. ships in international waters on August 2 and 4, 1964 (known as the Gulf of Tonkin Incident), Congress responded with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. This resolution gave the President the authority to escalate U.S. involvement in Vietnam. President Lyndon Johnson used that authority to order the first U.S. ground troops to Vietnam in March 1965.

Whatever, lol

By the time LBJ sent in troops there were 16,000 military "advisors" in Vietnam

 

[NOVA]

Admiral Maineman won't reverse course.

The Admiral has his very version of history rather than what really happened in any given time frame....kinda llike desh and rana....

 

[Phantasmal]

The Admiral has his very version of history rather than what really happened in any given time frame....kinda llike desh and rana....

Says Vanilla, who has been proven wrong more than he has ever been right, and keeps repeating the same debunked material

 

[christiefan915]

Once again the leftist is historically challenged; South Vietnam didn't go communist, it was conquered after brutal fighting and after the Democrat controlled US Congress refused to abide by the agreement we made to the South Vietnamese which haunts us to this day.

After the conquest of the South through force, millions fled resulting in estimates of 200,000 to 400,000 deaths at sea.

You're floundering, TD. Explain why this isn't communism.

South Vietnam was a republic from 1954 until 1975. Then it became the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

The Party emphasized development of heavy industry and collectivisation of agriculture. Over the next few years, private enterprises were seized by the government and their owners were often sent to the New Economic Zone to clear land. The farmers were coerced into state-controlled cooperatives. Transportation of food and goods between provinces was deemed illegal except by the government...

In foreign relations, the SRVN became increasingly aligned with the Soviet Union by joining the Council for Mutual Economic Assistance (COMECON), and signing a Friendship Pact, which was in fact a military alliance, with the Soviet Union. Tension between Vietnam and China mounted along with China's rivalry with the Soviet Union and conflict erupted with Cambodia, China's ally...

Many of those who held high positions in the old South Vietnamese government and military, together with influential people in the literary and religious circles, were sent to reeducation camps, which were actually hard labor prison camps. The inhumane conditions and treatment in the camps caused many inmates to remain bitter against the Communist Party decades later. The SRVN government implemented a Stalinist dictatorship of the proletariat in the South as they did in the North...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_in_Vietnam

 

[christiefan915]

Whatever....
-------------------------------------------------------
I guess you could go back to September 1950, the United States created the Military Assistance Group to screen French requests for aid, advise on strategy, and train Vietnamese soldiers. By 1954, the US spent US$1 billion in support of the French military effort, 80 percent of the cost of the war.
US advisors present, but not combat troops
Truman was President (D) or


http://tinyurl.com/2ff6f6k
First U.S. Ground Troops Sent to Vietnam

As the fighting between the Viet Cong and the South Vietnamese continued, the U.S. continued to send additional advisers to South Vietnam. When the North Vietnamese fired directly upon two U.S. ships in international waters on August 2 and 4, 1964 (known as the Gulf of Tonkin Incident), Congress responded with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. This resolution gave the President the authority to escalate U.S. involvement in Vietnam. President Lyndon Johnson used that authority to order the first U.S. ground troops to Vietnam in March 1965.

It's what I said in another post Popeye. Nobody's arguing that Johnson didn't escalate. We're saying that the US presence, including military, was in Vietnam for a decade before Johnson became president. And at that point in the decade, Ike was president.

I know you guys are heavily invested in pinning the entire debacle of Vietnam on Dems, but history and fact shows otherwise. Let's dig a little deeper, bravs. LBJ was given the authority to accelerate from Congress in the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Who supported the Resolution? Well, it passed in the House of Representatives unanimously 416-0 and in the Senate 98-2. And the only dissenters were two Dems.

So I guess you guys can now stop bloviating that this was all on the backs of Dems, huh.

 

[philly rabbit]

Cite chapter and verse where I said all Americans in 'Nam were war criminals.

Your arguments are really lame. The proof of what SOME Americans did in Nam was validated, recorded, and covered up by the government. Are you angry because all this stuff came out 30 years after the fact? Bet you love Snowden, though, for what he leaked on Obama's watch.

Look, they're either war criminals or they're not war criminals. According to you, they're war criminals. So at least stay consistent.

How many of us were war criminals? You said some. How many are some by your estimation? 40%? 50%? 75%?

Now your entire underlining theme on this thread is that Kerry was telling the truth and you even dug up a story to verify that he was.

 

[christiefan915]

I say the last statement is projection, you being the one not interested in history. The other posters seem able to follow my point. It is just another one of your back door insults. You think it strengthens your very wrong position when it doesn't.

Here's something to make you laugh. I put his comments from #375 into a word counter and it counted 470 words total. Then I counted the insults only, 116 words. So 33% of his post was nothing but superciliousness and scorn. It's making me think twice if I want to waste any more time engaging someone who needs rudeness to bolster his otherwise insufficient comments.

 

[philly rabbit]

Let's see. After the fall of Saigon the country went communist. Now explain how US foreign policy was drastically changed because of it.

I said that you were trying to change U.S. foreign policy when your side won that war. You changed it because the communists won which is what you wanted to happen.

 

[philly rabbit]

do you think that it is reasonable to assume that most days, somewhere in Vietnam, during the height of our involvement, some VC corpse might have had its ear removed as a souvenir? I know I have seen several of them at Legion halls over the years. Isolated?

 

[maineman]

Look, they're either war criminals or they're not war criminals. According to you, they're war criminals. So at least stay consistent.

How many of us were war criminals? You said some. How many are some by your estimation? 40%? 50%? 75%?

Now your entire underlining theme on this thread is that Kerry was telling the truth and you even dug up a story to verify that he was.

like I said... I've seen more than a couple VC ears at Legion Halls... somebody was cutting them off. Does that mean that every GI in Nam was a war criminal? of course not. Did we routinely do some fairly atrocious things? yep.