Last Universal Common Ancestor

[Cypress]

And Cypress embarks on yet another expedition to the far ends of the earth and horizons of reality in his neverending quest to deny God.

Incorrect.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

Post the actual Quote, and then the follow-up responses from me

Stop it, Cypress. You remember just as well as I do.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

I opted out of that exchange last week because I like all the participants and do not want to take sides.

Wait until they call you an antisemite or a nazi or violent.

 

[Cypress]

Using the full term once in a while to impress that that is what you mean, is worthwhile.



Okay...so I am recommending that anyone doing what you are doing should use "carbon based life" once in a while, is worthwhile.



Or at least that is what humans suppose. That may not be the case...since the physics of other places may not be the physics of here.

And...the transport of nutrients, metabolism, exchange of ions...may not be an essential to all life...just to life as we humans know it.




Everything we humans suppose exists...MAY BE non-descript in the grand scheme of things. Considering the enormity of just what we humans KNOW exists, it is not unreasonable to describe what we have here using that descriptor.

I know what you're saying, but I'm just too lazy to write carbon based life each time.

As a matter of efficacy, we need to start out looking for carbon based life because it is all that we really understand. I don't know if we would even recognize exotic forms of life even if we saw it

 

[Ross Dolan]

I disagree. We communicate with animals.

Other carbon-based life forms would have similarities. Silicon-based might present different problems but I see no reason they’d be insurmountable. Consider that the physics of the Universe is a constant. That, regardless of life form, Pi remains Pi.

So you are disagreeing with "But...we may not be able to communicate with life forms almost exactly like our own.

Okay.

 

[Cypress]

Stop it, Cypress. You remember just as well as I do.

Yes,I do remember the series of exchanges, and if you want to characterize it fairly, you should repost all the relevant quotes

 

[Cypress]

When one calls suggests that someone is an "antisemite" when they talk about the theologically difficult issues in the Old Testament I think we can agree there's a bit more than "agnosticism" going on.

It's hard to believe you are using my science thread to relentlessly pursue this.

This is the relevant quote for how that exchange ended -->

It seems like you really hate the Hebrew bible,
I apologize if that's not true. You have definitely gone out of your way to cherry pick the most objectional parts.

I don't like it when holly rollers cherry pick biblical quotes to condemn gays either.

The Torah contains rules for ritual, specifically for ritual purity, food preparation, animal sacrifice, and some general prohibitions against murder and adultery.

At the time of Torah, the Hebrew tribes weren't even technically monotheists. They recognized and accepted that other gods existed.

The meat and potatoes of what is recognizably a Jewish religion and Jewish social ethical framework only matured in the second temple period, and in the period before, during, and after the Babylonian exile. Basically the time of the prophets.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

It's hard to believe you are using my science thread to relentlessly pursue this.

This is the relevant quote for how that exchange ended -->

Well, that's a bit dishonest. You had to be drug kicking and screaming to apologize and then it was an "apology if I offended". Why don't you share all the posts where you intimated I'm an antisemite?

 

[Cypress]

I disagree. We communicate with animals.

Other carbon-based life forms would have similarities. Silicon-based might present different problems but I see no reason they’d be insurmountable. Consider that the physics of the Universe is a constant. That, regardless of life form, Pi remains Pi.

There are no elements, even silicon, that have the properties of carbon in being able to covalently bond large, complex chains of polymers together.

It really just makes sense, in the absence of additional information, to search for carbon based life by looking for biosignatures of carbon life

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

I dunno. Sounds a bit too much like a feminine hygiene product.

Primordial Eve- Sounds like something Ron DeSantis will be banning from the Florida School System soon!

 

[Cypress]

Well, that's a bit dishonest. You had to be drug kicking and screaming to apologize and then it was an "apology if I offended". Why don't you share all the posts where you intimated I'm an antisemite?

LOL at being drug kicking and screaming.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

There are no elements, even silicon, that have the properties of carbon in being able to covalently bond large, complex chains of polymers together.

I thought you were a geologist? Si most definitely does have a similar property. The element itself will not bond Si-Si* like C ("self catenation") but it clearly forms rather complex networks.

What happened to all the mineralogy classes you had to sit through?



*Si-Si would be expected in the raw metal, but not in the compounds per se.

 

[Cypress]

I thought you were a geologist? Si most definitely does have a similar property. The element itself will not bond Si-Si* like C ("self catenation") but it clearly forms rather complex networks.

What happened to all the mineralogy classes you had to sit through?



*Si-Si would be expected in the raw metal, but not in the compounds per se.

SI has four covalent bonds , but it doesn't form long chain polymers

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

SI has four covalent bonds , but it doesn't form long chain polymers

C has 4 bonds as well. (they are in the same group on the periodic table, so they share a lot of similar features). Si doesn't self-catenate like C, but you should be familiar with inosilicates and double-chain silicates like pyroxene and amphibole (respectively) which seem pretty polymeric in nature. Long chains of repeating Si-O-Si. Then there's the whole field of silicones.

I am not saying it is a drop in for C or anything but just being a bit more pedantic on the science.

 

[Matt Dillon]

I do not find that to be the case at all. I think he has his own concept of “god”, as it should be, it’s a very personal issue.

 

[Phantasmal]

Yes, it’s my opinion, just as you gave your opinion, man.

 

[Cypress]

C has 4 bonds as well. (they are in the same group on the periodic table, so they share a lot of similar features). Si doesn't self-catenate like C, but you should be familiar with inosilicates and double-chain silicates like pyroxene and amphibole (respectively) which seem pretty polymeric in nature. Long chains of repeating Si-O-Si. Then there's the whole field of silicones.

I am not saying it is a drop in for C or anything but just being a bit more pedantic on the science.

Crystalline molecules are not organic, and since we're talking about life we are talking about organic polymers. There is not the slightest shred of evidence Si O bonds constitute life or ever could.

Sorry, but despite what we saw on Star Trek, silicon life doesn't seem likely. Si does not form complex long chain polymers like carbon can with O and H.

 

[Matt Dillon]

Yes, it’s my opinion, just as you gave your opinion, man.

And you are welcome to it!

 

[Cypress]

I do not find that to be the case at all. I think he has his own concept of “god”, as it should be, it’s a very personal issue.

Yes, that's right, thanks

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

Crystalline molecules are not organic,

Why does it need to be "organic"?

and since we're talking about life we are talking about organic polymers.

For C-based life forms, yes. But that isn't necessarily ALL life is it? We don't know.

There is not the slightest shred of evidence Si O bonds constitute life or ever could.

You really go for the definitive claims.

Sorry, but despite what we saw on Star Trek, silicon life doesn't seem likely. Si does not form complex long chain polymers like carbon can with O and H.

I am fascinated that you discount silicones. You are familiar with the chemistry are you not?