Leaving Iraq, Honorably

Damocles said:
There is this group called Al Qaeda, who are using Iraq as a recruitment tool.... They happen to be there... Or are you pretending that it is only Iraqis fighting the US in Iraq?
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Al Qaeda was hoping and praying that we stayed in iraq. Their biggest fear was that we would leave, and that the iraqis would turn their anger onto the foreign al qaeda fighters who have caused so much death an misery for iraqis. The captured letters from Al Qaeda's number two man - Zawahiri - show him to be fretting over the possibility that hsould america withdraw from iraq, the "cause celebre" of iraq will fade, and many of the foreign jihaddists will go home. Not to mention, al qaeda isn't very popular in Iraq because of all the carnage they've caused to iraqi civilians. Without the distracting - and provoking - presence of an american occupation, the iraqi militias may just turn their guns on those blood thirty foreign terrorists. Especially the shia militia, since the shia community has been brutalized by al qaeda.
 
LadyT said:
That tells us, that whether we withdraw at once, or do a phased withdrawal as you suggested, they will see it as a victory either way. That does not mean there is a direct correlation to recruitment. If anything, one could argue that if they considered it a victory, that there would be less of a need for them to recruit in Iraq. We can play the supposition game all day long.

I'd personally argue that keeping US forces there increases the chance of civilian deaths and destruction of infrastructure at the hands of the US military which as we've seen, will definitely increase the number of terrorists and anti-American sentiment.
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It would be far harder to convince recruits that it was a "victory" for them if we can force the Iraqis to gain control of their own nation as we go. We must hand them the weakest possible recruitment tool.
 
Cypress said:
Al Qaeda was hoping and praying that we stayed in iraq. Their biggest fear was that we would leave, and that the iraqis would turn their anger onto the foreign al qaeda fighters who have caused so much death an misery for iraqis. The captured letters from Al Qaeda's number two man - Zawahiri - show him to be fretting over the possibility that hsould america withdraw from iraq, the "cause celebre" of iraq will fade, and many of the foreign jihaddists will go home. Not to mention, al qaeda isn't very popular in Iraq because of all the carnage they've caused to iraqi civilians. Without the distracting - and provoking - presence of an american occupation, the iraqi militias may just turn their guns on those blood thirty foreign terrorists. Especially the shia militia, since the shia community has been brutalized by al qaeda.
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Hence my reasoning that leaving the areas of the violence and moving in Iraqi-only forces would be the way to go. This way you get both the effect of the Iraqis fighting those forces as well as clearly taking control of their own nation as we go.
 
uscitizen said:
I still say we have a good prediction of what will happen when we pull out. Just listen to the Bushies predictions and reverse them. They have been consistantly wrong about Iraq. If the Bushies say pulling out will increase recruitment then it obviously will not increase it.
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I think you're onto something here.
 
LadyT said:
I agree. and seeing as how American presence in Iraq is Al Qaeda's biggest recruitment tool, I say we take it away from them by pulling out.
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I agree, but not by handing them an even more powerful recruitment tool. Hence the reason I state we must do it quickly and smartly rather than simply quickly....
 
LadyT said:
I agree. and seeing as how American presence in Iraq is Al Qaeda's biggest recruitment tool, I say we take it away from them by pulling out.
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us pulling out would would then be AQ best recruitment tool and probably would work better for AQ then our presense in iraq
 
Damocles said:
I agree, but not by handing them an even more powerful recruitment tool. Hence the reason I state we must do it quickly and smartly rather than simply quickly....
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Sorry, but with your plan, "the Great Satan" is still a rallying point.
 
LadyT said:
Sorry, but with your plan, "the Great Satan" is still a rallying point.
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it allways will be too... until they are educated otherwise. that recruitment tool wouldnt just magicly go away after we leave
 
LadyT said:
Sorry, but with your plan, "the Great Satan" is still a rallying point.
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As it would be with any other plan. This one however pushes forward the Iraqis and forces them to gain control before we leave, otherwise all we have is 'Great Satan Retreated!'

So, sorry, just simply packing up and going would be worse.
 
uscitizen said:
Why ? They are mostly fighting each other anyway.
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Because there would be the show of them taking control. As well as showing that we understand our own mistake that we are willing to own the problems we allow to be created in our names.

The idea has the best chance of lessening the impact of the "retreat" tool as well as them gaining control of their own nation at the same time. Simply leaving gives none of that appearance and shows the world that they must clean up the mistakes we allowed to be perpetrated in our name.

I prefer to keep the recruiting tool to the most minimal possible by leaving and "gaining" at the same time by forcing the Iraqis to take control and responsibility for far more than they have so far.
 
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