Let's Go, Get Woke, America!

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,



True, which is why I said we need to try to end racism. I didn't claim that we could end it.

I refuse to accept that nothing can be done.

Agreed on trying to end racism. What we are doing isn't as effective as desired and has the negative aspect of institutionalizing racism which means Racism will never end.

Better, IMO, to teach tolerance and the fact we all share the same rights.

Pastor Martin Niemöller's famous poem illustrates why it's important that we protect each other's rights.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 

[cawacko]

Good morning cawacko,



Everyone will have to decide for themselves what the proper response to that situation should be.

But the situation needs to occur.

Unless you've got a better idea of how to try to end racism?

I'll go back every time to housing and the racist history of single family zoning because your response completely belies your argument for everyone to be woke.

And as you've already made clear earlier in this thread, your true desire here is to elect Democrats. It's fine that you want Democrats in power, but the faux call for wokeness is nothing but a smokescreen for winning political power.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

Leaving aside that we'll never end racism or bigotry telling kids to go tell their parents they're racist probably wouldn't top my list of how to work to reduce it.

Oh, why don't you pervert what I said, create a straw man, and then proceed to rip your straw man to shreds? Bravo.

I never said (as you claimed) that children should be taught in school to go home and tell their parents they are racist.

Again, how would you respond to your kid saying that? You going to defensive and claim you're not? Or are you going to acknowledge your own racism to them?

And it would be an interesting conversation when minority children go home and tell their parents they are racist.

Totally moot point based on your straw man. Read the previous post again.

Also: I never claimed we can end racism. I said we need to try.

Also, also: I notice you have no ideas for a better approach.

 

[cawacko]

Hello cawacko,



Oh, why don't you pervert what I said, create a straw man, and then proceed to rip your straw man to shreds? Bravo.

I never said (as you claimed) that children should be taught in school to go home and tell their parents they are racist.



Totally moot point based on your straw man. Read the previous post again.

Also: I never claimed we can end racism. I said we need to try.

Also, also: I notice you have no ideas for a better approach.

"It is because your parents are racists. Racists rarely want to admit that they are racists, so they go to great lengths to fight that. But the truth is the truth".

If a teacher tells the kids their parents are racist you don't think they would go home and bring it up? How do you think a kid would respond to hearing that said? (especially a minority child)

 

[Dutch Uncle]

"It is because your parents are racists. Racists rarely want to admit that they are racists, so they go to great lengths to fight that. But the truth is the truth".

If a teacher tells the kids their parents are racist you don't think they would go home and bring it up? How do you think a kid would respond to hearing that said? (especially a minority child)

Who is telling kids their parents are racists? Ron DeSantis? More bullshit from the Alt-Right?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

I'll go back every time to housing and the racist history of single family zoning because your response completely belies your argument for everyone to be woke.

And as you've already made clear earlier in this thread, your true desire here is to elect Democrats. It's fine that you want Democrats in power, but the faux call for wokeness is nothing but a smokescreen for winning political power.

I've been reading about that and you do have a point. SFZ does contribute to racism. I think a good compromise would be for new subdivisions to be required to include some MFZ. Existing SFZ should mostly be allowed to stay as it was when people bought in. Forcing them to change after people are already there impacts the value of their investment, and people don't want that. Investing in a home is the number one way that the 99% builds wealth in America.

Regardless of how zoning is treated, that issue alone will not be enough to complete our effort to combat racism. It is only one aspect.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

"It is because your parents are racists. Racists rarely want to admit that they are racists, so they go to great lengths to fight that. But the truth is the truth".

If a teacher tells the kids their parents are racist you don't think they would go home and bring it up? How do you think a kid would respond to hearing that said? (especially a minority child)

Cherry picked. Leaves out important context: "Some of you are racists. Not all of you, but some. We are not going to single out any names. You don't mean to be. You don't think you are, and you certainly don't want to be called racists, but it is the truth."

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

"It is because your parents are racists. Racists rarely want to admit that they are racists, so they go to great lengths to fight that. But the truth is the truth".

If a teacher tells the kids their parents are racist you don't think they would go home and bring it up? How do you think a kid would respond to hearing that said? (especially a minority child)

Why especially?

Minority reverse racism is quite rare.

 

[cawacko]

Hello cawacko,



Cherry picked. Leaves out important context: "Some of you are racists. Not all of you, but some. We are not going to single out any names. You don't mean to be. You don't think you are, and you certainly don't want to be called racists, but it is the truth."

So each kid will go home and ask their parents if they are racist. And what do you think those parents are likely to say? (Again, especially minority parents). And when the parent says they aren’t what has been accomplished?

 

[cawacko]

Hello cawacko,



Why especially?

Minority reverse racism is quite rare.

You don’t think minorities can be bigoted/racist towards other groups?

 

[PoliTalker]

Cawacko, you can try to make this about me all you want but clearly I am not responding on that level. I intend for this to be a conceptual discussion.

fyi

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

You don’t think minorities can be bigoted/racist towards other groups?

I didn't say that. I said it is quite rare. The main problem is racist whites. By far.

 

[cawacko]

Hello cawacko,



I didn't say that. I said it is quite rare. The main problem is racist whites. By far.

It's not really quite rare. I'm not suggesting that should be the focus but it definitely exists. The beauty of travelling and living in a diverse area is you learn the good, and not so good, about other cultures.

So again, even if you say the teacher should tell the class some of your parents are racist unless you specifically say "i'm only speaking about white parents" then minority kids will go home and ask if their parents are racist too. But as stated, being a minority doesn't mean you aren't or can't be racist or bigoted.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You don’t think minorities can be bigoted/racist towards other groups?

I do. Hate begets hate.

The point everyone should understand is that we can't eliminate racism with government racism.

That said, as Poli seems to be pointing out, if 10% of each race were racists, the 10% of a 74% population would be the much greater problem than the 10% from a 13% population.

Still, racism is wrong and it's unAmerican. Those supporting it are against American values and the Constitution.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello cawacko,

I didn't say that. I said it is quite rare. The main problem is racist whites. By far.

Link? AFAIK, no population of human beings isn't without their geniuses and idiots, heroes and villains, fair and biased.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Link? AFAIK, no population of human beings isn't without their geniuses and idiots, heroes and villains, fair and biased.

Agreed. And ya got me there. I can't prove the negative; so you win the argument. Easy win. Demand proof of a negative and presto. The other can't do it, so automatic win. How clever.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Agreed. And ya got me there. I can't prove the negative; so you win the argument. Easy win. Demand proof of a negative and presto. The other can't do it, so automatic win. How clever.

Positive proof is not proving a negative. You said racism among minorities is rare without offering proof of the relative percentages of racism in any group.

No doubt you and I can both agree that racism continues to be a problem since it divides people and minimizes both job opportunities and education by race.

My major problem with the idea of blaming only "whites" for racism is that it's a racist lie to do so.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/17/21284527/systemic-racism-black-americans-9-charts-explained

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello cawacko,

It's not really quite rare. I'm not suggesting that should be the focus but it definitely exists. The beauty of travelling and living in a diverse area is you learn the good, and not so good, about other cultures.

So again, even if you say the teacher should tell the class some of your parents are racist unless you specifically say "i'm only speaking about white parents" then minority kids will go home and ask if their parents are racist too. But as stated, being a minority doesn't mean you aren't or can't be racist or bigoted.

Reverse racism, while it exists, is not the big problem. The problem is whites hating on blacks, discriminating against blacks.

Why should racism not be talked about in schools? It's not going to solve itself. We have to try to address it, try to improve the situation. Nobody is born a racist. They learn it. They do not learn it in school. They learn it at home. School is the only place we can try to interrupt cross-generational racism.

It's not going to be solved by changing zoning. That would help. It can be part of the solution. We should make that change in new builds. But that alone is not going to fix it.

We have got to interrupt the cycle of passing hatred down from parent to child.

It only stands to reason that has to occur in schools.

And this whole big fight about CRT is just a smokescreen for racists resisting having the government try to do something about racism.

Racists are stuck in their hatred. They lean on it like some kind of security blanket. The thought of ripping that security blanket away is terrifying to them. They have issues. We have to try to address that. We can't ignore it away.

The way to interrupt it is in the schools. That is where we teach the young what we want them to know, and they need to know that racism is wrong. If they are getting racism from their parents then we need to tell the children about it and nip it in the bud.

 

[cawacko]

Hello cawacko,




Reverse racism, while it exists, is not the big problem. The problem is whites hating on blacks, discriminating against blacks.

Why should racism not be talked about in schools? It's not going to solve itself. We have to try to address it, try to improve the situation. Nobody is born a racist. They learn it. They do not learn it in school. They learn it at home. School is the only place we can try to interrupt cross-generational racism.

It's not going to be solved by changing zoning. That would help. It can be part of the solution. We should make that change in new builds. But that alone is not going to fix it.

We have got to interrupt the cycle of passing hatred down from parent to child.

It only stands to reason that has to occur in schools.

And this whole big fight about CRT is just a smokescreen for racists resisting having the government try to do something about racism.

Racists are stuck in their hatred. They lean on it like some kind of security blanket. The thought of ripping that security blanket away is terrifying to them. They have issues. We have to try to address that. We can't ignore it away.

The way to interrupt it is in the schools. That is where we teach the young what we want them to know, and they need to know that racism is wrong. If they are getting racism from their parents then we need to tell the children about it and nip it in the bud.

For starters the country isn't only white and black. The middle and high school my daughter (she/her) is assigned to is 85% Asian and LatinX. So are all those kids supposed to not participate in this class discussion? Have they not experienced racism and bigotry in their lifetime? Can they themselves not be bigots or racists to other groups?

You have schools in LAUSD, for example, that are like almost all Hispanic. Again, should those kids be taught some of them have racist parents?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Positive proof is not proving a negative. You said racism among minorities is rare without offering proof of the relative percentages of racism in any group.

No doubt you and I can both agree that racism continues to be a problem since it divides people and minimizes both job opportunities and education by race.

My major problem with the idea of blaming only "whites" for racism is that it's a racist lie to do so.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/17/21284527/systemic-racism-black-americans-9-charts-explained

Wow.

3/4 of Republicans think the bigger problem is that the government has done too much to try to address racism. (1st link)

I guess that makes sense. They don't think racism is a problem.

I don't get how people can think racism is not a problem unless they are racists.

No wonder they want to redefine woke.

Woke means wanting to do something about the racism they want to pretend does not exist.

The real definition of woke reminds them of something they are trying very hard to ignore.

And it is a source of stress for them.