Lies, and More Lies -- PolitiFact's Lie of the Year 2009-2020

Dutch Uncle said:
I'd have to read up on it more, but my recollection is that Obama spent too much energy on healthcare and not enough on the economy. Sure, some stuff got done, but it was an uphill battle at almost every turn since the Democrats had already blown their wad. It caused problems.

Again, it takes two to tango and I hold the Republicans responsible for their mistakes too. In 2009, the economy should have been a priority then healthcare.

Add to this that the healthcare solution was flawed, mostly due, IMO, to the frickin' insurance companies. Another fact the Democrats should have realized ahead of time.
Click to expand...
We've had this discussion around the edges in the past. If you're reading, then start with the House defunding the risk corridor program. There was a SC decision this year that awarded the insurance companies millions that they were promised, as the House had no right to defund the program.

No matter the topic re. Obama, you will find gross obstructionism involved. Also...it's easy to forget that Obama didn't have his super majority for many months after inauguration. Kennedy was absent with brain cancer, Franken wasn't seated for numerous months. It wasn't like Obama was handed the keys to the govt. with 60 senators chomping at the bit to do shit.

He actually had his majority (Blue Dogs notwithstanding) for about 75 days that the Senate was in session. Given that fact, it's a miracle that anything got done.
 
Althea said:
We've had this discussion around the edges in the past. If you're reading, then start with the House defunding the risk corridor program. There was a SC decision this year that awarded the insurance companies millions that they were promised, as the House had no right to defund the program.

No matter the topic re. Obama, you will find gross obstructionism involved. Also...it's easy to forget that Obama didn't have his super majority for many months after inauguration. Kennedy was absent with brain cancer, Franken wasn't seated for numerous months. It wasn't like Obama was handed the keys to the govt. with 60 senators chomping at the bit to do shit.

He actually had his majority (Blue Dogs notwithstanding) for about 75 days that the Senate was in session. Given that fact, it's a miracle that anything got done.
Click to expand...

Hence my point. This was all foreseeable. What if Biden decides to go the "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in!" route? Isn't it foreseeable that it would be a shitfest from the beginning and plague Biden's entire term? Sure, the Democrats might score a partial win, but it would taint Biden and the Democrats with half of America.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Hence my point. This was all foreseeable. What if Biden decides to go the "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in!" route? Isn't it foreseeable that it would be a shitfest from the beginning and plague Biden's entire term? Sure, the Democrats might score a partial win, but it would taint Biden and the Democrats with half of America.
Click to expand...
Unless someone puts a bullet in McConnell's head, or Dems. miraculously take both Ga. Senate seats, Biden will have no chance of getting much done that can't be done via EO.

That's the state of politics today.
 
Althea said:
Unless someone puts a bullet in McConnell's head, or Dems. miraculously take both Ga. Senate seats, Biden will have no chance of getting much done that can't be done via EO.

That's the state of politics today.
Click to expand...

It depends. If Biden even gets one seat, even leaving McConnell in place, the margin is narrowed. If Biden can persuade people to work together, 2022 might work in his favor. If people are still divided, it'll be SS, DD.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
It depends. If Biden even gets one seat, even leaving McConnell in place, the margin is narrowed. If Biden can persuade people to work together, 2022 might work in his favor. If people are still divided, it'll be SS, DD.
Click to expand...
I'm quite sure that Collins/Murkowski/Romney would agree to common sense bills. McConnell won't bring them to the floor. Without both Ga. seats, nothing gets done. Republicans are vulnerable in '22 in the Senate, though. Without the trump faithful, it might be an atypical mid term.
 
Althea said:
Wrong. As designed, there is nothing in the ACA that should change networks. What doctors/insurers do has nothing to do with the law.

When selling the ACA in the early days, Obama was citing the proposed law. I kept all of my same network. I had more problems keeping a doctor before ACA, when different plans/networks made you find a provider from their list.


Some were more widespread than others.
Click to expand...

Anecdote isn't evidence. Aside from that, Obama wasn't discussing group plans like employers offer as these were unaffected by Obamacare. He was addressing those who had individual policies of the sort that would have to move to an Obamacare plan once it passed. For them, they were almost forced off their current plans onto an Obamacare market plan. And, for them the usually, almost certainly , lost their choice of doctor and plan options.
 
Althea said:
I'm quite sure that Collins/Murkowski/Romney would agree to common sense bills. McConnell won't bring them to the floor. Without both Ga. seats, nothing gets done. Republicans are vulnerable in '22 in the Senate, though. Without the trump faithful, it might be an atypical mid term.
Click to expand...
Time will tell. It depends on the subject.

The Republicans have painted themselves into a very ugly corner. If they don't unfuck themselves, they could pay a dear price in 2022 and/or 2024.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Anecdote isn't evidence. Aside from that, Obama wasn't discussing group plans like employers offer as these were unaffected by Obamacare. He was addressing those who had individual policies of the sort that would have to move to an Obamacare plan once it passed. For them, they were almost forced off their current plans onto an Obamacare market plan. And, for them the usually, almost certainly , lost their choice of doctor and plan options.
Click to expand...
OOOPS.

Talk about anecdotes

I forgot to mention that I've been in the individual market for 40 years. My state set up a great exchange. I kept my doctor, and was able to use any provider that I wanted to.

Given that I'm healthy, use no meds, and see a doctor once/year, it wasn't that big an issue for me.

Again...I had more trouble with groups and networks before ACA was passed.



Given that the majority of insured in this nation get insurance from employers, you just admitted that most people got to keep their doctors.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Time will tell. It depends on the subject.

The Republicans have painted themselves into a very ugly corner. If they don't unfuck themselves, they could pay a dear price in 2022 and/or 2024.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but as you and I have discussed before...relying on super majorities in order to move anything forward, is not what Congress is supposed to be about.
 
Althea said:
Perhaps, but as you and I have discussed before...relying on super majorities in order to move anything forward, is not what Congress is supposed to be about.
Click to expand...

Agreed. They need to get along better because what they are doing isn't working.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
I'd have to read up on it more, but my recollection is that Obama spent too much energy on healthcare and not enough on the economy. Sure, some stuff got done, but it was an uphill battle at almost every turn since the Democrats had already blown their wad. It caused problems.

Again, it takes two to tango and I hold the Republicans responsible for their mistakes too. In 2009, the economy should have been a priority then healthcare.

Add to this that the healthcare solution was flawed, mostly due, IMO, to the frickin' insurance companies. Another fact the Democrats should have realized ahead of time.
Click to expand...
Obama came in facing the second great depression and the economy took all his early days to fight. He passed the Investment and Recovery act. He bailed out the auto industry. He passed a tax cut and extended unemployment, he passed banking Regulations.(Dodd /Frank). He was wrapped up in the economy.
 
Nordberg said:
Obama came in facing the second great depression and the economy took all his early days to fight. He passed the Investment and Recovery act. He bailed out the auto industry. He passed a tax cut and extended unemployment, he passed banking Regulations.(Dodd /Frank). He was wrapped up in the economy.
Click to expand...

What percentage of Obama's time do you think he dedicated to each focus?
 
Nordberg said:
Obama came in facing the second great depression and the economy took all his early days to fight. He passed the Investment and Recovery act. He bailed out the auto industry. He passed a tax cut and extended unemployment, he passed banking Regulations.(Dodd /Frank). He was wrapped up in the economy.
Click to expand...
Yes. A lot happened rather quickly, all while Republicans propagandized.

What most never knew was that for all the complaints by Republicans about Stimulus spending, 60% of it went to middle class tax cuts.
 
Althea said:
What 'they are doing', is pandering to their bases in order to get elected. Nothing else. I think Citizens United just made it worse.
Click to expand...

Agreed on both pandering and Citizens United. CU isn't the fault of SCOTUS; it's the fault of Congress to write Constitutional anti-corruption legislation.
 
Althea said:
OOOPS.

Talk about anecdotes

I forgot to mention that I've been in the individual market for 40 years. My state set up a great exchange. I kept my doctor, and was able to use any provider that I wanted to.

Given that I'm healthy, use no meds, and see a doctor once/year, it wasn't that big an issue for me.

Again...I had more trouble with groups and networks before ACA was passed.



Given that the majority of insured in this nation get insurance from employers, you just admitted that most people got to keep their doctors.
Click to expand...

This is anecdote. Most people in the individual market were forced off their plans. The result varied state-to-state.

It now looks like ObamaCare will hurt twice as many people as it helps — because the law isn’t nearly done with canceling people’s insurance.

The 5 million-plus Americans who’ve seen their health plans canceled thanks to ObamaCare will be joined by millions more this year — because the Affordable Care Act makes their employer-provided policies illegal, as well.
Click to expand...
https://nypost.com/2014/01/14/another-25-million-obamacare-victims/

Ten years into Obamacare, cost and access issues abound
Click to expand...
https://www.rollcall.com/2020/03/10/ten-years-into-obamacare-cost-and-access-issues-abound/

President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.
Click to expand...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ot-keep-their-health-insurance-flna8C11484394

Here in Arizona, Obamacare plans fell to one provider and there were for a period no providers for parts of the state. It's still mostly one offering plans with a second in the most populous two counties (Maricopa and Pima) offering a choice. If you are on Obamacare, in Arizona you get no options as to your plan for the most part. Many in rural areas of the state have to drive as much as 100 + miles to see a doctor on their plan.

As for the last, that wasn't what Obama meant by what he said, and you know it just as I do. He meant if you were going to fall under Obamacare coverage with an individual plan, you could keep your plan and doctor. Every truthful person acknowledges it. I even provide a link showing that.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I read both Politifact articles you present.

The first one is the usual Politifact playing fast and loose with what constitutes a "lie." It shows their usual bias against anyone or thing that doesn't agree with their own mindset.

The second is a logical fallacy in that it's an Appeal to popularity. "The lie of the Year" should have at least a modicum of statistical and rational support showing how egregious it really is. Instead, we are treated to some vague generalities and a popular vote by the site's readers. Hardly any sort of objective measure there. What makes this worse, is that Politifact tries to present itself as purveyors of facts and object truth. They end up doing neither.

Politifact is, in fact, nothing but another op ed site that foists its opinions off on you and me. They are no more truthful or accurate than say, Brietbart. Maybe that should be presented as Politifact's Lie of the Year...
Click to expand...

So your claim is that Trump's lie about winning the election is not a lie? Let's see your evidence that Trump didn't lose but actually won? I am curious as to how delusional you actually are. Step up to the plate and prove you have no relationship with reality.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
So your claim is that Trump's lie about winning the election is not a lie? Let's see your evidence that Trump didn't lose but actually won? I am curious as to how delusional you actually are. Step up to the plate and prove you have no relationship with reality.
Click to expand...

Where did I address that specific issue? Seems you are trying to pull a complex question fallacy on me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top