Kamala Trump
Verified User
Dixie, what is this supernatural experience you had that allows you to know that god is real. I really would be interested in hearing about that. That's interesting. I have interest in that topic, interestingly enough.
Life After Death? Get real.
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uscitizen
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This is a good example of someone cherry-picking Holy Scriptures, so as to illustrate THEIR points in an argument against life after death. To a certain degree, it is similar to how people scoured Nostradamus' works after 9/11, and found several quatrains to fit the event. The difference is, this would be like scouring Nostradamus to find 'evidence' for an argument against psychics!
The Holy Bible is a collection of books written originally in Hebrew, then translated into Latin, then translated into English. The accepted style of writing for the time, was to frequently utilize metaphors, in a proverbial sort of way, to give the reader the sense of what the lesson was. So, you are dealing with various writing styles, a complexity of contextual meaning and intent, along with a couple of language translations to make it even more confusing. You can't take individual verses out of the Bible, and make a strong case for ANYTHING! It is like, if I started grabbing letters out of the Scrabble box, I bet I could spell an EVIL word!
And why would you want to use the Book of Believers to prove you shouldn't believe? That makes no sense whatsoever, AssClown! ...Are you off your meds again?
.....Okay.....
I read stuff like this, and I feel compelled to ask you.... How do you explain the phenomenon then? How do you explain, that 95% of all humans on this planet, believe in something more profound than humans, or a supreme power? How do you explain the millions of people, who will admit they have had their lives changed through spiritual faith? How do you explain the countless near-death experiences, which all curiously seem to have the same theme... there is a sense of 'awareness' after death. (they are aware of a bright light... etc.) They were all clinically dead at the time of this 'experience' and none of these people know each other, or have any reason to fabricate some story about it.
I don't believe there is life after death, I know there is. Nothing you can post, will ever change my mind about what I know to be true. Most true believers are that way, it's why they call it "faith." It would be like me trying to convince you that your mother doesn't exist. Could I possibly do that? Nope... nothing I post would ever convince you that your mother doesn't exist, you know she is real.
I have experienced things that I can't really explain to you here, but it long-ago convinced me there is something greater than myself out there, I've witnessed it before my very eyes. So you are really fighting an uphill battle, because I am not a believer, I'm a 'knower!'
The Jews at one point did not believe in life after death. They believed that life was carried on for you through your children and their childrens' children. Over time the this changed and evolved to their position today.
Thorn
Member
Good point. I have a book titled "Disease and History". I'd always wondered how a philosophy so ostensibly gentle and self-effacing as I'd been taught Christianity was supposed to be could have persisted and spread. The answer: the Plague. This philosophy offered resurrection and life after death, so that people who could only look forward to dying in droves had hope of some sort of existence ever after. That made sense.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
No, heaven and hell are in the Bible, I have read about them and know about both places through my reading of it. You are a nimrod, but no one worships you, which is why you seek attention like this.
It's hilarious that you pose an argument which requires you to believe in Satan, in order to disbelieve Hell. Only YOU could come up with something so convoluted and utterly stupid.
Kamala Trump
Verified User
But the real answer is The Roman Empire, which created a version of christianity to unite the empire under Constantine.
Thorn
Member
That brutal imposition is the other side of it, and that persisted throughout the Roman Empire, then later in various forms in Europe and Britain. It was easier to understand that as a basis for spreading a religion. Presumably the Plagues made its acceptance more palatable.
Kamala Trump
Verified User
The brutal imposition is the main reason. The plagues were much later, during the dark ages, after the fall of the western half of the roman empire. but sure, whatever, the plagues made it palatable.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Here's the trouble with your theory... many people thoroughly believed in life after death, centuries before the Plague. While this event did spark a resurgence in religious faith, it doesn't mean you can point to this event to explain why humans believe in an afterlife.
Archeologists in Australia unearthed what is thought to be among the oldest human civilizations ever discovered, they estimate it to be around 70k years old. They found evidence of 'ritual burial' and ceremony for the dead. This means, 70k years ago, humans believed there was life after death. Why else would they hold ceremonial rituals for the dead? Jump over to Africa, where other ancient civilizations have been discovered... a world away from Aussie lands... completely different race of people with different language and culture... they find the same evidence of ritual burial and ceremony for the dead. This is not a coincidence, it can't be explained away on a whim. It is solid concrete evidence that mankind has always had a profound connection to spiritual belief, and belief in an afterlife. It's ingrained into our genetic code, we can't help but believe in it.
This prompts those who are lost, to formulate silly and ridiculous arguments, to try and convince others to abandon their faith. Perhaps they fear going into the afterlife alone?
Kamala Trump
Verified User
Maybe they found the rotting carcasses of their friends distasteful?
Kamala Trump
Verified User
My cat used to bury his shit in the sandbox, is that an expression of spirituality?
Dixie, you're cognitively lost.
Dixie, you're cognitively lost.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I'm sure they found rotting anything distasteful, but they didn't have ritual ceremonies for the animal carcasses, they took them downwind and dug a hole to dump them in. A ceremonial ritual is much more significant. They even broke out the face paint. Red Ochre was used, it was an important aspect of their culture to respect the dead.
Later in history, humans would often bury their dead with all kinds of worldly treasures, in pyramids which took multiple generations to build, because humans believed in an afterlife. Wars were brutally fought to dispel these 'religious' beliefs in humans, and the people who believed were persecuted, imprisoned and killed. Centuries of this... and humans still have the same profound connection to something greater than self.
See... this is the part I am having trouble with, and you can't really explain. Humans have had this profound connection to something greater than self, forever! Now, sure, it's taken all sorts of 'forms' but there is clearly a universal human attribute of desiring belief in something greater, something beyond this life. It is what makes us human in so many ways, our sense of responsibility to be "good stewards" of the planet... our sense of benevolence toward others in need... humanity. Human Morality!
How can you possibly conclude there is no 'life after death' is not reasonable. It defies the facts surrounding human behavior, and who we are. It contradicts the very "science" it seeks for knowledge. Animals behave how they behave for a fundamental reason and purpose, we know this is 100% true. Humans have a profound connection to spirituality, and always have, always will. It's what makes us Human and not Apes. So what is the reason for this persistent belief in a surprisingly large majority of humans?
Kamala Trump
Verified User
That something greater than self is other humans. You want it to be based on supernatural hokum so you can convince people to kill for an irrational agenda. It's just that simple. You're on the wrong side of morality.
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Death is the unknown, there is great fear in humans of the unknown. The after-life assured us that this was not the end and that the future was not unknown, but that you would be taken care of by the Spirit in the sky if you were obedient. It all focused on being obedient and not questioning, the shaman and the tribal leaders shared leadership in this fashion.
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There are four words in the Bible used for the English word "hell"
They are not interchangeable and therefor have been misused and misinterperted by some or most sources.
Hell was not a physical place in the Old Testament or in Jewish tradition.
The New Testament is basically the same as the Old in that Jesus was a Jew and he believed that Sheol was the presence of God and those who were righteous basked in the love of his presence, those who were unrighteous felt pain and torment from the presence of God. It is a spiritual realm according to Old and New Testament, not a physical place, because doesn't the Bible tell all Christians that there is no place outside of God. He is all, there is no getting away from Biblegod.
They are not interchangeable and therefor have been misused and misinterperted by some or most sources.
Hell was not a physical place in the Old Testament or in Jewish tradition.
The New Testament is basically the same as the Old in that Jesus was a Jew and he believed that Sheol was the presence of God and those who were righteous basked in the love of his presence, those who were unrighteous felt pain and torment from the presence of God. It is a spiritual realm according to Old and New Testament, not a physical place, because doesn't the Bible tell all Christians that there is no place outside of God. He is all, there is no getting away from Biblegod.
Thorn
Member
Lewis Black explained that quite humorously; despite his humor, though, he made a good point. These writings were compiled for the benefit/teaching of people whose understanding at the time was pretty simplistic. It's not surprising that they might make the concept of Sheol into something more concrete, which would be compatible with that level of comprehension.
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Lewis Black is one very funny guy! Thanks for reminding me of his humor. I will now have to check out his thoughts on the current situations in America.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I didn't start this thread, I am not 'trying to convince' people of anything. You make no sense, humans don't believe other humans are greater. Generally speaking, unless you ask someone specifically about a close family member, most humans rank themselves #1 as humans go.
I know you can justify this in your head as being the case, but it simply doesn't comport with reality of history. Millions upon millions of people have given their lives... died, for what they believed in regarding spiritual faith. Precisely because they didn't want to be obedient or follow the leader. Fear of the unknown is unrequited by belief in an afterlife, we still don't "know" what is after life, we are still uncertain about the future after life. So what you have is a fallacy, which makes perfect sense until you stop to think about it.
I agree, heaven and hell, if they exist, are not physical places. You can't "go" to heaven or hell. When you are there, it isn't inhabited by physical people in a physical realm. I believe these places exist, just not 'physically' as we understand 'physics.' They exist in another dimension, one we don't understand or comprehend. When we leave this existence, what we know as our "soul" travels into another dimension, and our direction is determined largely by how well we 'performed' in this life... (that's my personal belief.)
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
It is my experience that Christians fear the afterlife much more than they fear the concept of a Godless universe.