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Independent Thinker
They do not. Thinking of a dead person doesn't make them alive. Either they're conscious in another state (i.e. heaven), or they have ceased to exist. It's one or the other.
Life After Death? Get real.
- Thread starter Lao Tse
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They do not. Thinking of a dead person doesn't make them alive. Either they're conscious in another state (i.e. heaven), or they have ceased to exist. It's one or the other.
ManU1959
Left Coast
why....why can not people live on in a state other than the one you mandate.....
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Independent Thinker
I'm saying either they're conscious or they're not.
Thinking about them isn't going to change their state.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Nothing "philosophical" ever concludes possibility. In that regard, no one can say you can't live on in another dimension, or that we even really exist, for that matter... but, I digress.
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Cancel5
Guest
A plea for help, I love the likes of you folks who have to have a Santa Claus for adults.
I have a spiritual life, but it is not anything like yours and never will be again.
You know nothing about me, but pass your own judgment upon me as to what my life is like and if I am happy and fulfilled.
If it makes you feel better to feel superior to others because you believe you have found truth. If you pass judgment on my state of mind from an anonymous message board, then you are good, really good.
This is just a one size fits all that every Christian I have met tries to pull on people who just don't swallow their brand of snake oil, anymore.
Peace
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
I don't really get into religious debates with people anymore. Its a lot easier to just not care about other people's spiritual well-being than to worry about it. But I contend that it really is someone's fault if they fail to bring God into their life, etc. Its not a very Catholic sentiment, but it keeps me sane and non-suicidal...
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Guest
How do they explain that damage from dementia and other disease will actually change a persons moral thinking due to damage to the cortex.
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Would you like to say more about this phrase of yours: - "It's about the inherent primal instinct you have as a human."
Can you define 'human' while you are about it.
Much obliged.
Can you define 'human' while you are about it.
Much obliged.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
In some cases, it appears that way. Religion has also provided to enlighten us, and give clarity and charity in times of distress. Many scholars believe much of our 'transformation' from cave men and barbarians, has to do with human spiritual connection. It is animal instinct that I kick your ass and take your stuff if I am bigger. That's Nature in action. Our primal instincts are regulated through our spiritual core, it is what makes us "civilized" as a species.
I don't know what you read that made you think I am judging you, casting judgments on you, or feeling superior over you. I never said you weren't happy, but you have essentially admitted to having no spiritual core. Now, you claim to have "a spiritual life" and I think that is an attempt to agree with me, that such things are important to humans.
I am not Christian. I do not belong to any organized religion. I have stated this many times here. My position is not from that of Religion or religious beliefs. People believe all sorts of things, and I don't proclaim them to be right or wrong in what they believe. However, I know the truth is, humans have a fundamental connection to their spirituality.
Some people have chosen to live in denial of the truth. And human spirituality has fashioned a civilization where our laws and customs can somewhat regulate overt hedonism, and keep us from destroying ourselves, so those in denial can practice such lifestyles with impunity. But the truth will always shine through. It's interesting... the most shoplifted book? The Bible!
For as far back as we have been able to unearth the remains of our ancestors, we find evidence of ceremonial rituals, ceremonial burials of the dead, a connection to some belief in spirituality. This trait has been passed down through every generation of modern man. Wars have been fought, ideologies have emerged to destroy and remove human spiritual beliefs, believers have been persecuted, tortured, humiliated, raped, killed... yet still persist in their spiritual beliefs. It can't be stomped out of man, as much as man tries.
Today, 95% of all humans, believe in something greater than man. So this is a human attribute, something inherent in all humans, the connection to spirituality.
It's interesting you ask what may seem to be a dumb question... to "define human" at first glance, looks to be a joke. However, there is relevance, even in the most unintentional ways sometimes. When we examine the possible things which may have contributed to the demise of Neanderthal and rise of Homo-sapien, one thing seems to be clear, Neanderthal had no apparent connection to spirituality. I believe this is evidence that spirituality is indeed what makes us "human" and not cave men.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Well not to interfere with your continued swipes at a former president, but I think this bears worth noting... Mankind didn't discover electro-anything until just the past century. As recently as 150 years ago, our forefathers seriously deliberated, humans were guilty of routinely practicing supernatural phenomenon. Just within the last 60,000 years, a relative blink of the eye in the 'life' of our universe, mankind has even learned to communicate, to use math, to advance technologically to any degree at all.
We tend to live in the moment and forget that. There's something almost subconscious in man, where he assumes he is the end-all-be-all to knowledge. That what we presently know and understand, is pretty much all there is to know or understand. So, various assumptions, opinions, ideals, etc... are all based on this premise... that we are empirical in knowledge. Something is dismissed, because "science" doesn't support it... but isn't that really the same as saying, because we don't "know" if it is true? 200 years ago, man didn't have the slightest idea of how to fly. Now we routinely send man to space. Was this "impossible" before 200 years ago? Or... did mankind simply not understand or comprehend the way to do it? Were they "stupid" because they didn't? No, but they were often mocked and ridiculed when they theorized how it might be done.
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Neanderthals were indeed human and coexisted with 'early modern man' for several thousand years. Now my next question is to discover what you mean by spirituality and what is the difference between 'spirituality', 'religion', 'superstition' and the desire to combat ignorance.
Cro Magnon man lived in caves by the way as did late modern humans and I have visited parts of the world where that is still the case.
Cro Magnon man lived in caves by the way as did late modern humans and I have visited parts of the world where that is still the case.
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Guest
What exactly is a spiritual core?
And, i don't know your beliefs, i haven't followed them that closely, I have only bopped in and out until recently.
I will again tell you that my spirituality isn't what you think, but I know that I am not core less, I would be brain dead in that case.
Cave men weren't humans? Neanderthal buried their dead, are you saying now saying that isn't a spiritual connection?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Explaining what your spiritual core is, would involve explaining your soul, and that is difficult to do, if you don't believe you have one. In short, it is a fundamental part of mankind, and has been forever. I don't know what your spiritual beliefs are, I assumed you didn't have them, I'm glad you agree that humans function better with a spiritual core.
Cave men weren't modern men. There is a distinction between us and them, and it revolves around spiritual connection. "Burying the dead" was not the evidence for spirituality, it was the ritual ceremonies they performed when burying the dead. Neanderthals, best we can tell, didn't do this.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
So, is this like an interview? I realize Neanderthal lived in coexistence with modern man, that's precisely why I gave the example. Here are both supposed 'legs' of the human species tree, one survived and one became extinct. Science is seemingly baffled at why this occurred, they have speculated all kinds of scenarios, but they don't know for sure. Some scholars (and myself) believe, the results and benefits of spiritually-based cultures made survival more conducive to modern man. Likewise, less conducive for the non-spiritual Neanderthal. Whether this is true or false, it is a glaring distinction between the two groups.
Spirituality is fairly simple, it is the belief that something greater and more profound than yourself exists. Religion utilizes this fundamental belief in man, to organize into denomination and worship in groups. Superstitions are legend and myth, actions thought to bring good or bad luck. I see little connection in the three, they are all different. Now, if you are an Atheist living in denial of your Creator, I'm sure it's easy to confuse them with each other.
Many people will argue that religious beliefs are like superstitions... but this isn't so. We all know of a handful of superstitions, but do you see organized and active groups of believers in these? Do we see people willing to die, so that they might avoid walking under a ladder? Of course not, because humans are intelligent enough to know (for the most part) that something is superstitious nonsense, and has no intrinsic meaning. This is not the case with human spirituality. In spite of the decades and centuries of wars, humans still persist with their spiritual beliefs. As strongly now as they ever have, not in some embarrassing little gesture tossed off with a laugh, but with complete and total devotion and passion.
Lowaicue
英語在香港
Don't worry this is not an interview. You have launched a discussion that, by its very nature, is unlikely to be resolved by any two people.
You will be familiar, I guess, with Stonehenge. Indeed you might be familiar with the Avebury ring and other stone circles, standing stones, etc.
Do you think they were built/erected as part of a superstition, as part of a religion or for some other reason. Do you think that Neanderthal man possessed spirituality?
As far as seeing organised groups believing in what you might term superstition I have to say that, yes, I do see organised groups. Who or what organises them is another question.
You are very suspicious, aren't you? One might conjecture that you are wary of leaving your comfort zone. I hope that is not the case.
You will be familiar, I guess, with Stonehenge. Indeed you might be familiar with the Avebury ring and other stone circles, standing stones, etc.
Do you think they were built/erected as part of a superstition, as part of a religion or for some other reason. Do you think that Neanderthal man possessed spirituality?
As far as seeing organised groups believing in what you might term superstition I have to say that, yes, I do see organised groups. Who or what organises them is another question.
You are very suspicious, aren't you? One might conjecture that you are wary of leaving your comfort zone. I hope that is not the case.
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Guest
A little humor on the subject:
The Bible In A Nutshell:
God makes a man to talk to, a woman to keep the man happy, and a kind of garden zoo to confine them in. As a joke, or a test (?) or a subtle cruelty, God sticks a tree in the middle of the zoo and tells them, "Don't touch this!" Mind you, he knows they will. He is omniscient.
When they do, he reads the script he's written for himself (being omniscient and all), curses them, and chucks them out of the Garden lest they eat the fruit of The Tree of Life and become "as one of us", whoever the hell "us" is.
In the meantime, he destroys most of his "evil" creation, but doesn't succeed in destroying all the evil, then sets them at war with each other, orders the wholesale destruction of entire cities --including babies and cattle -- so that his "Chosen" should have a place to live and treasure to hand over to his priests, and performs parlor tricks which result in the temporal deaths and pointless everlasting torture of thousands of souls, just so he can show everyone who's Boss.
It seems to have escaped his notice that he is, after all, the singular Creator of The Universe and should, therefore, have no reason to prove anything to anyone, let alone beings he's already declared to be utterly worthless.
Apparently, he values the opinions of the worthless so much that he incarnates himself as his own son so that he may sacrifice himself, to himself, to appease himself of his own wrath. Notice, if you will, that he, the Supreme Sacrifice in question, is currently sitting at his own right hand, secure in the knowledge (which he already had) of eternal life (which he already had).
Having inspired his biographers to let us know the only way to escape the flames of perdition is to be vociferously grateful for having saved us from the menace of himself, he lapses into a sullen silence and makes it Christianity's responsibility to bring everyone else to him.
Check out Matthew 10: 5-6 and 15: 24-26. Hmm, we are still here? What happened to Christ's prediction at Matthew 24: 34? And, as far as Jesus dying on the cross, check out Acts 5: 30. The Romans crucified political dissidents. The Jews hanged their criminals.
The Bible was written without the benefit of information from Copernicus, Isaac Newton, Galileo, Darwin, Einstein, Hubble, Watson and Crick, and many others. In fact, the Bible makes no mention of New World animals. Should we really put much stock into the musings of a bunch of Bronze Age, seminomadic, superstitious, semi-literate goat and sheep herders
The Bible In A Nutshell:
God makes a man to talk to, a woman to keep the man happy, and a kind of garden zoo to confine them in. As a joke, or a test (?) or a subtle cruelty, God sticks a tree in the middle of the zoo and tells them, "Don't touch this!" Mind you, he knows they will. He is omniscient.
When they do, he reads the script he's written for himself (being omniscient and all), curses them, and chucks them out of the Garden lest they eat the fruit of The Tree of Life and become "as one of us", whoever the hell "us" is.
In the meantime, he destroys most of his "evil" creation, but doesn't succeed in destroying all the evil, then sets them at war with each other, orders the wholesale destruction of entire cities --including babies and cattle -- so that his "Chosen" should have a place to live and treasure to hand over to his priests, and performs parlor tricks which result in the temporal deaths and pointless everlasting torture of thousands of souls, just so he can show everyone who's Boss.
It seems to have escaped his notice that he is, after all, the singular Creator of The Universe and should, therefore, have no reason to prove anything to anyone, let alone beings he's already declared to be utterly worthless.
Apparently, he values the opinions of the worthless so much that he incarnates himself as his own son so that he may sacrifice himself, to himself, to appease himself of his own wrath. Notice, if you will, that he, the Supreme Sacrifice in question, is currently sitting at his own right hand, secure in the knowledge (which he already had) of eternal life (which he already had).
Having inspired his biographers to let us know the only way to escape the flames of perdition is to be vociferously grateful for having saved us from the menace of himself, he lapses into a sullen silence and makes it Christianity's responsibility to bring everyone else to him.
Check out Matthew 10: 5-6 and 15: 24-26. Hmm, we are still here? What happened to Christ's prediction at Matthew 24: 34? And, as far as Jesus dying on the cross, check out Acts 5: 30. The Romans crucified political dissidents. The Jews hanged their criminals.
The Bible was written without the benefit of information from Copernicus, Isaac Newton, Galileo, Darwin, Einstein, Hubble, Watson and Crick, and many others. In fact, the Bible makes no mention of New World animals. Should we really put much stock into the musings of a bunch of Bronze Age, seminomadic, superstitious, semi-literate goat and sheep herders
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Cancel3
Guest
Complete and utter bullshit.
Living a full and happy life is not about money and luxury. If you believe that you have been watching too much tv.
The best parts of life are not high dollar items.