Life After Death? Get real.

[Cancel3]

When you have a strong spiritual foundation, you understand much more. You are stuck largely in a 'material' world, where you need to feel good and unwind... take some pills... have a drink... get naked... etc. Those of us with a strong spiritual foundation, don't have this same urge to "unwind" as you.

It's because you have a void in your life, something is missing, it is your core spiritual belief, but you are in denial of that. You will probably either die never understanding what is missing in your life, or you will eventually find it is your spiritual core. In the meantime, you will fill this void with a feeling of need for drugs, alcohol, sex, pills, porn... whatever. ...to Unwind!

Dixie, when she said something about "dancing skyclad, she was not talking about sex. She is talking about unwinding from the stresses of life in our world. You want to make "dancing skyclad in the moonlight" in the same category as drinking and popping pills? That is complete horseshit.

And then you have the audacity to talk about her dancing naked in the moonlight by adding "you will fill this void with a feeling of need for drugs, alcohol, sex, pills, porn... whatever. ...to Unwind!".

Your judgemental and puritanical roots are showing here, Dix.

 

[Cancel3]

This is a common thing I hear from people who have disavowed their spiritual foundation, as if they are trying to 'convince' themselves it is the truth. Being in touch with your spiritual core, has nothing to do with a "need" you have. You have proven that people can live without a spiritual core. It's about what your spiritual core provides you that you don't even realize you need. It's about the inherent primal instinct you have as a human, to have a spiritual foundation, a source to base your purpose, something on which to build your moral character. This is something you can function without, but your life will be full of a murky underlying frustration of not reaching your full potential, a (sometimes subconscious) feeling of something missing or incomplete. People can find all kinds of creative ways to remain in denial, they prove this on a daily basis. You can turn your back on your spiritual foundation, and still convince others you are a happy well-balanced individual... congrats, we owe you an Oscar!

Froggie, your entire reply is a plea for help, and you don't even realize it. You are so empty in your little "happy" world, you can't hardly deal with it sometimes. You call it all kinds of things.... stress... drama... life... but as much as you search for relief from it, as much as you drink, or pop... you can't find solace. I know people who have carefully balanced a story-book life, without the first notion of belief in a higher power. Inside, they are like the most miserable people you've ever met. Jealousy, Pride, Hate, Envy, Lies... Playing a virtual "devil's symphony" in their hearts, and they are totally blind to it. They can't see the light because they extinguished the light long ago.



Without a spiritual foundation, you have chosen to tell us here...
...I am happy because that is my #1 Priority in Life!
...I also know I have convinced others that I am a nice person. That's #2 Priority.
...I am fortunate to be so in love with myself as to denounce my god! (see #1 Priority)

It amazes me that you will tell people that they need a belief in a higher power to be happy. Then when people tell you that they are happy without such a belief, you essentially call them a liar.

How can you possibly know what these people feel? How can you have the gall to insist that everyone who doesn't believe in a higher power "...are like the most miserable people you've ever met. Jealousy, Pride, Hate, Envy, Lies... Playing a virtual "devil's symphony" in their hearts, and they are totally blind to it."?

This is the sort of bullshit that sends people running from religion.

The gambit is simple. You tell people they cannot be happy without belief in god, and if they claim to be happy you call them a liar and try to tell them what they are feeling.

Complete nonsense.

 

[uscitizen]

The messenger of religion is important for a good sales job.
Does anyone think dixie is an appropriate representative of Gawd?

 

[Damocles]

Everybody is an appropriate representative of God. All things that live are part of God.

 

[uscitizen]

Everybody is an appropriate representative of God. All things that live are part of God.

You are fully entitled to that opinion.
But that does not make you or me correct. None of us REALLY know.

However with that said; I still maintain that Dixie is not a good example of a Christian.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Don't worry this is not an interview. You have launched a discussion that, by its very nature, is unlikely to be resolved by any two people.
You will be familiar, I guess, with Stonehenge. Indeed you might be familiar with the Avebury ring and other stone circles, standing stones, etc.
Do you think they were built/erected as part of a superstition, as part of a religion or for some other reason. Do you think that Neanderthal man possessed spirituality?
As far as seeing organised groups believing in what you might term superstition I have to say that, yes, I do see organised groups. Who or what organises them is another question.
You are very suspicious, aren't you? One might conjecture that you are wary of leaving your comfort zone. I hope that is not the case.

I actually got the feeling you were very suspicious. I never intend to come here and change people's minds, and I would be majorly disappointed, were that the case. Again, I didn't begin this thread, someone who claims to not believe in a higher power, did. So it seems that advice might be better suited for them.

As for Stonehenge, etc. I have no idea why they were built, or what purpose they served. One valid speculation is, it was tied to spiritual belief. Much the same is the case with the pyramids. In that example, we do know what the people were thinking, and it indeed surrounded their beliefs in an afterlife. These things are evidence, hard core scientific evidence, that mankind has a profound connection with his spirituality. It's not simply some dismissive 'superstitious' ritual with no real value.

The Neanderthals, as far as we know, were not spiritual. In all the archeology, we don't find evidence of this. We do know modern humans were spiritual. Could this be the reason Neanderthal became extinct? No one knows, and it wouldn't seem likely this would have directly caused their extinction, but there is the very real possibility, it played a role.

Organized groups? Well, it's easy to figure out who organizes them... Man! However, you continue to be confused as to the difference between spiritual belief and superstition. Here's a clue... People who are just superstitious, do not form organized groups to worship a higher power. It should also be pointed out, superstition is the direct result of a belief in spirituality. So, even IF spiritual believers are merely practicing superstition, it remains evidence of man's profound connection to spirituality. This truth can't be escaped.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Complete and utter bullshit.

Living a full and happy life is not about money and luxury. If you believe that you have been watching too much tv.

The best parts of life are not high dollar items.

Wrongo - the entire point of this thread has been that "living a full and happy life" is a matter of perspective. A yuppie must have material possessions to be happy. An epicuric hedonist needs the finer things in terms of vices, while a cyrenaic hedonist needs an abundance of baser sex, booze, drugs, etc. to be happy. A poor soul on the streets of Calcutta can be content if they are a Buddhist or a Franciscan, but otherwise their needs are probably not being met.

Most people do not thrive on sufforing, and cannot live a full and happy life until the burdens of captivity, extreme poverty, etc. are removed from them. Unless you believe in something greater than the physical world, at least...

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

It amazes me that you will tell people that they need a belief in a higher power to be happy. Then when people tell you that they are happy without such a belief, you essentially call them a liar.

How can you possibly know what these people feel? How can you have the gall to insist that everyone who doesn't believe in a higher power "...are like the most miserable people you've ever met. Jealousy, Pride, Hate, Envy, Lies... Playing a virtual "devil's symphony" in their hearts, and they are totally blind to it."?

This is the sort of bullshit that sends people running from religion.

The gambit is simple. You tell people they cannot be happy without belief in god, and if they claim to be happy you call them a liar and try to tell them what they are feeling.

Complete nonsense.

I challenge you to show me where I said anyone "needed" belief in a higher power to be happy? In fact, I said just the contrary. Society proves everyday, you can forsake your Creator completely, and civilization will not crumble because of it. Many people without spiritual foundation, can 'find happiness' without this belief, and will attest to their happiness eagerly.

This proves that most all humans seek happiness and fulfillment. Now, "happiness" isn't much of a problem these days. If you are having trouble with it, there are all kinds of pills you can take to give you this feeling. Fulfillment is a little harder to come by, and harder to put your finger on. Many non-spiritual people will claim to be fulfilled, but it's because they have brainwashed themselves into thinking, because their life is full, it is fulfillment.

As I said earlier, if we could shoot everybody up with some truth serum, we would find that non-spiritual people have some issues. That they are not as content and satisfied with life, as they may lead you to believe here. They are full of guilt, anger, and frustration of not being able to fill a void in their life. This is often why it is so important for them to convince us, they really are happy! Thanks to modern chemistry, this fact is a given.

Let's also be clear, my viewpoint here, has nothing to do with RELIGION! The only fact I have continued to point out, (which has yet to be refuted because it's true), is that mankind has always had this profound instinctual connection to something higher, and of the spiritual realm. Opinions vary, sometimes sharply, on what that entity is, but it's a fairly universal human attribute to have spiritual connection.

 

[Cancel5]

I challenge you to show me where I said anyone "needed" belief in a higher power to be happy? In fact, I said just the contrary. Society proves everyday, you can forsake your Creator completely, and civilization will not crumble because of it. Many people without spiritual foundation, can 'find happiness' without this belief, and will attest to their happiness eagerly.

This proves that most all humans seek happiness and fulfillment. Now, "happiness" isn't much of a problem these days. If you are having trouble with it, there are all kinds of pills you can take to give you this feeling. Fulfillment is a little harder to come by, and harder to put your finger on. Many non-spiritual people will claim to be fulfilled, but it's because they have brainwashed themselves into thinking, because their life is full, it is fulfillment.

As I said earlier, if we could shoot everybody up with some truth serum, we would find that non-spiritual people have some issues. That they are not as content and satisfied with life, as they may lead you to believe here. They are full of guilt, anger, and frustration of not being able to fill a void in their life. This is often why it is so important for them to convince us, they really are happy! Thanks to modern chemistry, this fact is a given.

Let's also be clear, my viewpoint here, has nothing to do with RELIGION! The only fact I have continued to point out, (which has yet to be refuted because it's true), is that mankind has always had this profound instinctual connection to something higher, and of the spiritual realm. Opinions vary, sometimes sharply, on what that entity is, but it's a fairly universal human attribute to have spiritual connection.

Christian Scientist? L Ron? You are sounding a little like Tom Cruise.

 

[Cancel3]

I challenge you to show me where I said anyone "needed" belief in a higher power to be happy? In fact, I said just the contrary. Society proves everyday, you can forsake your Creator completely, and civilization will not crumble because of it. Many people without spiritual foundation, can 'find happiness' without this belief, and will attest to their happiness eagerly.

This proves that most all humans seek happiness and fulfillment. Now, "happiness" isn't much of a problem these days. If you are having trouble with it, there are all kinds of pills you can take to give you this feeling. Fulfillment is a little harder to come by, and harder to put your finger on. Many non-spiritual people will claim to be fulfilled, but it's because they have brainwashed themselves into thinking, because their life is full, it is fulfillment.

As I said earlier, if we could shoot everybody up with some truth serum, we would find that non-spiritual people have some issues. That they are not as content and satisfied with life, as they may lead you to believe here. They are full of guilt, anger, and frustration of not being able to fill a void in their life. This is often why it is so important for them to convince us, they really are happy! Thanks to modern chemistry, this fact is a given.

Let's also be clear, my viewpoint here, has nothing to do with RELIGION! The only fact I have continued to point out, (which has yet to be refuted because it's true), is that mankind has always had this profound instinctual connection to something higher, and of the spiritual realm. Opinions vary, sometimes sharply, on what that entity is, but it's a fairly universal human attribute to have spiritual connection.

The second blod face answers the challenge of the first bold face.

And if "content and satisfied" does not mean "happy", then you are splitting hairs again.

But the point of my posts is that you insist upon pretending that you somehow know what others are feeling. Your statement that Froiggie's posts about being happy are a "plea for help" is just another example.

 

[Lowaicue]

To answer some of your points and in no particular order.
One of the first evidences of what we think of as spirituality is the burying of the dead. Neadnerthals buried their dead.
The people who built Stonehenge and other similar constructions understoof ignorance and the part that spirituality might play in the exploitation of it. As did those who encouraged the use of stories to explain the workings of nature (think of Persephone).
The 'priests' who built the ancient stone circles and who labelled other natural phenomena as 'magic' we the precursers of the slave owners in your own country and the exploiters of man all round the world.
The 'priest' found that he could sell his knowledge. That if he could forecast the seasons and the weather he could advise on the planting of crops and their harvesting, the husbandry of animals and the physical well being of man. For this he was paid and paid handsomely.
All the 'wise men' of history have done likewise (no, I am not referring to the Newtons and Einsteins of the world). They discovered power. Power over their fellow man and with power (because, as you know, it corrupts) came exploitation and the belief by ordinary people that they each had their place.
The 'god' bit was simply a backup plan.
It is comforting to believe in a higher power and I would not criticise those who do, nevertheless, ordinary people will never be free, truly free, in a society that puts the blame for man's failures on a deity.
As for organised belief in superstition that is easy. In the same way that ants are organised to build an ant hill, millions of people believe, for example, in ghosts and also believe in certain practices designed to placate them They are organised in as much as they repeat actions and ceremonies at regular times of the year and they all do it together.
Millions of people wear copper bracelets to 'ward off' rheumatism, millions of people wear good luck talismans.
I think you need to read up a bit more before making statements that can not be proven. You have cited the unprovable. I have cited information gleaned from archeological evidence.
There is precious little archeology between dinosaurs and native Americans in your country whereas the rest of the world is positively teeming with it.
Go look. Learn. Be happy.
Sorry, forgot to mention the pyramids. The pyramids were vast expressions of power, no spiritualism attached.

I actually got the feeling you were very suspicious. I never intend to come here and change people's minds, and I would be majorly disappointed, were that the case. Again, I didn't begin this thread, someone who claims to not believe in a higher power, did. So it seems that advice might be better suited for them.

As for Stonehenge, etc. I have no idea why they were built, or what purpose they served. One valid speculation is, it was tied to spiritual belief. Much the same is the case with the pyramids. In that example, we do know what the people were thinking, and it indeed surrounded their beliefs in an afterlife. These things are evidence, hard core scientific evidence, that mankind has a profound connection with his spirituality. It's not simply some dismissive 'superstitious' ritual with no real value.

The Neanderthals, as far as we know, were not spiritual. In all the archeology, we don't find evidence of this. We do know modern humans were spiritual. Could this be the reason Neanderthal became extinct? No one knows, and it wouldn't seem likely this would have directly caused their extinction, but there is the very real possibility, it played a role.

Organized groups? Well, it's easy to figure out who organizes them... Man! However, you continue to be confused as to the difference between spiritual belief and superstition. Here's a clue... People who are just superstitious, do not form organized groups to worship a higher power. It should also be pointed out, superstition is the direct result of a belief in spirituality. So, even IF spiritual believers are merely practicing superstition, it remains evidence of man's profound connection to spirituality. This truth can't be escaped.

 

[Thorn]

To answer some of your points and in no particular order.
One of the first evidences of what we think of as spirituality is the burying of the dead. Neadnerthals buried their dead.
The people who built Stonehenge and other similar constructions understoof ignorance and the part that spirituality might play in the exploitation of it. As did those who encouraged the use of stories to explain the workings of nature (think of Persephone).
The 'priests' who built the ancient stone circles and who labelled other natural phenomena as 'magic' we the precursers of the slave owners in your own country and the exploiters of man all round the world.
The 'priest' found that he could sell his knowledge. That if he could forecast the seasons and the weather he could advise on the planting of crops and their harvesting, the husbandry of animals and the physical well being of man. For this he was paid and paid handsomely.
All the 'wise men' of history have done likewise (no, I am not referring to the Newtons and Einsteins of the world). They discovered power. Power over their fellow man and with power (because, as you know, it corrupts) came exploitation and the belief by ordinary people that they each had their place.
The 'god' bit was simply a backup plan.
It is comforting to believe in a higher power and I would not criticise those who do, nevertheless, ordinary people will never be free, truly free, in a society that puts the blame for man's failures on a deity.
As for organised belief in superstition that is easy. In the same way that ants are organised to build an ant hill, millions of people believe, for example, in ghosts and also believe in certain practices designed to placate them They are organised in as much as they repeat actions and ceremonies at regular times of the year and they all do it together.
Millions of people wear copper bracelets to 'ward off' rheumatism, millions of people wear good luck talismans.
I think you need to read up a bit more before making statements that can not be proven. You have cited the unprovable. I have cited information gleaned from archeological evidence.
There is precious little archeology between dinosaurs and native Americans in your country whereas the rest of the world is positively teeming with it.
Go look. Learn. Be happy.
Sorry, forgot to mention the pyramids. The pyramids were vast expressions of power, no spiritualism attached.

Good post; excellent points.

The last I read about Stonehenge, just a couple or so months ago, I think, was that it had been more or less determined to have been a place of healing.

 

[Cancel5]

Explaining what your spiritual core is, would involve explaining your soul, and that is difficult to do, if you don't believe you have one. In short, it is a fundamental part of mankind, and has been forever. I don't know what your spiritual beliefs are, I assumed you didn't have them, I'm glad you agree that humans function better with a spiritual core.

Cave men weren't modern men. There is a distinction between us and them, and it revolves around spiritual connection. "Burying the dead" was not the evidence for spirituality, it was the ritual ceremonies they performed when burying the dead. Neanderthals, best we can tell, didn't do this.

I think it revolved around the growth of the brain.

Was this spiritual core due to some infusion or just how did modern man receives this core that our primitive ancestors lack, again, was it due to the development of our frontal cortex?

National Geographic disagrees with you on the Neanderthal. So does my Archeology magazine. We, humans, also, share a gene with them. The language gene! They controlled fire. They even had trade, because they had trinkets that were different than their tribal ornamentation.

Science continues to discover and to cause wonder and awe in me.

I feel a connection, but it is to this universe as a very insignificant part of it.

I do not understand this "mystery" and I don't pretend to "know" it. I just let the mystery be...

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

To answer some of your points and in no particular order.
One of the first evidences of what we think of as spirituality is the burying of the dead. Neadnerthals buried their dead.

Not so fast, Skippy... The Neanderthals didn't have ceremonial rituals to bury their dead. At least not that we've ever discovered. All Neanderthal archeology suggests they had no connection to spirituality.

The people who built Stonehenge and other similar constructions understoof ignorance and the part that spirituality might play in the exploitation of it. As did those who encouraged the use of stories to explain the workings of nature (think of Persephone).
The 'priests' who built the ancient stone circles and who labelled other natural phenomena as 'magic' we the precursers of the slave owners in your own country and the exploiters of man all round the world.

See now... This is an opinion, and you are entitled to it, but it doesn't make it truth.

The 'priest' found that he could sell his knowledge. That if he could forecast the seasons and the weather he could advise on the planting of crops and their harvesting, the husbandry of animals and the physical well being of man. For this he was paid and paid handsomely.
All the 'wise men' of history have done likewise (no, I am not referring to the Newtons and Einsteins of the world). They discovered power. Power over their fellow man and with power (because, as you know, it corrupts) came exploitation and the belief by ordinary people that they each had their place.
The 'god' bit was simply a backup plan.

Again, more of your 'empirical' opinion here.

It is comforting to believe in a higher power and I would not criticise those who do, nevertheless, ordinary people will never be free, truly free, in a society that puts the blame for man's failures on a deity.

I'm glad you agree that humans are more comfortable believing in a higher power, I think that is an important to remember, because biology teaches that every behavioral characteristic of any living thing, is with reason and purpose.

As for organised belief in superstition that is easy. In the same way that ants are organised to build an ant hill, millions of people believe, for example, in ghosts and also believe in certain practices designed to placate them They are organised in as much as they repeat actions and ceremonies at regular times of the year and they all do it together.
Millions of people wear copper bracelets to 'ward off' rheumatism, millions of people wear good luck talismans.

Does 95% of the population do this? Nope... vast majority of humans do not believe in superstitions. Ants are not 'organized' to build an ant hill, they instinctively know how to do this. In that regard, yes, humans are also instinctively inclined to worship something.

I think you need to read up a bit more before making statements that can not be proven. You have cited the unprovable. I have cited information gleaned from archeological evidence.
There is precious little archeology between dinosaurs and native Americans in your country whereas the rest of the world is positively teeming with it.
Go look. Learn. Be happy.

You've not really contributed anything to this debate except your opinion. Information gleaned from archeology shows a profound connection between mankind and spirituality. One in which you admit is natural and comfortable for man.

Sorry, forgot to mention the pyramids. The pyramids were vast expressions of power, no spiritualism attached.

Yes, indeed there was. What was the purpose of burying their Pharaoh's inside the pyramids with enormous amounts of treasure and material wealth? It seems a little ridiculous to think they just though "what the hell..." doesn't it? I am thinking maybe this had something to do with what they sought to achieve for their ruler in the afterlife? Fact is, they sure as hell went to great extreme to please something.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I think it revolved around the growth of the brain.

Was this spiritual core due to some infusion or just how did modern man receives this core that our primitive ancestors lack, again, was it due to the development of our frontal cortex?

National Geographic disagrees with you on the Neanderthal. So does my Archeology magazine. We, humans, also, share a gene with them. The language gene! They controlled fire. They even had trade, because they had trinkets that were different than their tribal ornamentation.

Science continues to discover and to cause wonder and awe in me.

I feel a connection, but it is to this universe as a very insignificant part of it.

I do not understand this "mystery" and I don't pretend to "know" it. I just let the mystery be...

The Neanderthal brain and our brain, is not too different in size. In fact, until recently they thought Neanderthal's actual brain mass was greater than ours. I don't know what NG disagrees with me on, I have prefaced my remarks with "we don't know" or "as far as we know" ...Maybe Neanderthals worshiped God's too? From the evidence we have, it doesn't appear they had the same connection to spiritual belief as modern man. Yes, they communicated, yes perhaps they had trade... they didn't have ceremonial rituals.

You feel a connection because there IS a connection! All humans are born with the inherent belief (or inclination to believe) in a greater, more profound, power in the universe. As stated before, simple elementary biology teaches this characteristic has a fundamental purpose and reason, else it would no longer exist in the species. Occam's Razor says... When multiple competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions is most likely. Plainly put... Man believes in God because we are designed to.

 

[Cancel5]

Human are born with it. I would like to see your evidence for this claim.

It is a learned behavior as are most modern human behaviors, with the exception of our baser animal instincts, eating, drinking. breathing and having sex.

The number of synapsis in the brain and the protein is the difference between species and advanced thinking or it is the latest theory being advanced by science.

And I am sorry, I disagree with your theory that man believes in God because he is designed that way.


a child raised apart will not speak and it will not serve a god. It acts more like an animal. It is a learned behavior.

Modern man is one thing, we are still evolving, do you know what humans were like at the time the co-existed with Neanderthal? They were nothing like modern man.

Modern man is actually moving away from the idea of a believe in a God. Our mind is evolving and superstitions are being replaced by knowledge.

Thunder is not the gods throwing each other around, as was believed at one time in human history, also.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Human are born with it. I would like to see your evidence for this claim.

I thought you just showed us evidence? You feel "connected" to something, you have what you described as "a spiritual core" ...so you are living proof that we are born with this attribute. Also, if you study the history of man, you see this attribute is apparent in every civilization we've discovered, with the exception of civilizations which are now extinct.

It is a learned behavior as are most modern human behaviors, with the exception of our baser animal instincts, eating, drinking. breathing and having sex.

Nope... it is instinctual that we worship something greater than self. Variations of what, how and why, are certainly learned behaviors, but the inherent desire to believe in something greater than man, is a part of us all.

The number of synapsis in the brain and the protein is the difference between species and advanced thinking or it is the latest theory being advanced by science.

Lots of theories are advanced by science, it doesn't make them truth. Some people get so caught up in these theories, they refuse to accept the possibility they could be completely untrue. The fact is... Neanderthals no longer exist and modern man does. when we examine the differences, we find, they both have about the same gray matter, lived in the same climatic conditions, and were able to communicate and rationalize thought, but what is distinctly different in the two is, a lack of spiritual connection on part of Neanderthal. Now, you can keep denying this, or keep throwing up arguments which avoid this, but that is a fact of the matter which needs to be considered here.

And I am sorry, I disagree with your theory that man believes in God because he is designed that way.

That was a relatively simple way to put it, but you've already demonstrated this to be true. Mankind has a profound connection to spirituality!! What else do we need to discover to drive that point home more clearly? An ancient letter from Benny Henn? What?? Since the very first civilizations of modern man, through 2009... Men worship something greater than self... not just by a small percentage... not even 50/50... but overwhelmingly and definitively. We have a built-in inherent desire to worship something greater than self. You are typical of someone who claims to not believe in God, yet you will admit to feeling a "connection" to something, you will admit you have a "spiritual life" and you have pretty much agreed with me, humans do have a long history of spiritual connection.

a child raised apart will not speak and it will not serve a god. It acts more like an animal. It is a learned behavior.

You don't know what it will desire to believe in. You are jumping across huge gap to get to the other side of the creek. You presume that people must be taught spirituality, and it doesn't come naturally, but it came naturally to every generation before us. Mankind has always had this inclination to spiritual belief. So, how you can 'conclude' that a child raised in the wilderness, wouldn't feel the desire or inclination, is a bit silly to me. No, the child is not going to start reciting Bible verses! Is that what you meant? Or is that what you thought I meant when I said spirituality was instinctual?

Modern man is one thing, we are still evolving, do you know what humans were like at the time the co-existed with Neanderthal? They were nothing like modern man.

Oh, I know... but even then, they had the inclination to worship something greater than self. Spirituality is as much a part of who we are, as our DNA.

Modern man is actually moving away from the idea of a believe in a God. Our mind is evolving and superstitions are being replaced by knowledge.

Actually, there are more people who believe in something greater than self today, than any time in history. Our mind is not evolving, we are discovering new things to explain things we previously didn't know. Our mind (capability) is essentially unchanged over the past 60,000 years.

Thunder is not the gods throwing each other around, as was believed at one time in human history, also.

Do you think believers in religion think this is the case? The fact that we now understand weather and atmospheric conditions, doesn't render human spirituality irrelevant, you do understand that, right? This Sunday is Easter, and across America, millions of families with gather together and attend church service... do they believe thunder is the gods throwing each other around? Are they stupid people who don't understand they are being tricked by superstitious myths?

The truth... the answer... is apparent. You can live in denial of the truth, you can refuse to accept the answer, but it doesn't make it go away.

 

[Cancel5]

I thought you just showed us evidence? You feel "connected" to something, you have what you described as "a spiritual core" ...so you are living proof that we are born with this attribute. Also, if you study the history of man, you see this attribute is apparent in every civilization we've discovered, with the exception of civilizations which are now extinct.


Nope... it is instinctual that we worship something greater than self. Variations of what, how and why, are certainly learned behaviors, but the inherent desire to believe in something greater than man, is a part of us all.



Lots of theories are advanced by science, it doesn't make them truth. Some people get so caught up in these theories, they refuse to accept the possibility they could be completely untrue. The fact is... Neanderthals no longer exist and modern man does. when we examine the differences, we find, they both have about the same gray matter, lived in the same climatic conditions, and were able to communicate and rationalize thought, but what is distinctly different in the two is, a lack of spiritual connection on part of Neanderthal. Now, you can keep denying this, or keep throwing up arguments which avoid this, but that is a fact of the matter which needs to be considered here.



That was a relatively simple way to put it, but you've already demonstrated this to be true. Mankind has a profound connection to spirituality!! What else do we need to discover to drive that point home more clearly? An ancient letter from Benny Henn? What?? Since the very first civilizations of modern man, through 2009... Men worship something greater than self... not just by a small percentage... not even 50/50... but overwhelmingly and definitively. We have a built-in inherent desire to worship something greater than self. You are typical of someone who claims to not believe in God, yet you will admit to feeling a "connection" to something, you will admit you have a "spiritual life" and you have pretty much agreed with me, humans do have a long history of spiritual connection.




You don't know what it will desire to believe in. You are jumping across huge gap to get to the other side of the creek. You presume that people must be taught spirituality, and it doesn't come naturally, but it came naturally to every generation before us. Mankind has always had this inclination to spiritual belief. So, how you can 'conclude' that a child raised in the wilderness, wouldn't feel the desire or inclination, is a bit silly to me. No, the child is not going to start reciting Bible verses! Is that what you meant? Or is that what you thought I meant when I said spirituality was instinctual?



Oh, I know... but even then, they had the inclination to worship something greater than self. Spirituality is as much a part of who we are, as our DNA.



Actually, there are more people who believe in something greater than self today, than any time in history. Our mind is not evolving, we are discovering new things to explain things we previously didn't know. Our mind (capability) is essentially unchanged over the past 60,000 years.



Do you think believers in religion think this is the case? The fact that we now understand weather and atmospheric conditions, doesn't render human spirituality irrelevant, you do understand that, right? This Sunday is Easter, and across America, millions of families with gather together and attend church service... do they believe thunder is the gods throwing each other around? Are they stupid people who don't understand they are being tricked by superstitious myths?

The truth... the answer... is apparent. You can live in denial of the truth, you can refuse to accept the answer, but it doesn't make it go away.

The answer is apparent, you are a human who thinks they have answers and they don't!

You can refuse science, but in the end, it seeks answers and doesn't assume it has the truth.

People are not stupid, they are afraid, they are fearful of the future and what the unknown holds and if they are told that there is something that can save them from every fear and pain they ever had, well, most of them have to take that and count on the eye in the sky because they are not secure enough to know that this is life and there is no one to save you, no miracles, otherwise, a human could re-grow their missing limbs. There is just us and nature and the consequences of life.

I have no fear of dying, I have no fear of life. I take it as it comes and I laugh at people who tell me they know, because they are clinging to their gods in the same way a morphine addict hangs on to his drugs and by the way, the higher power, sec, drug, gambling, all the impulses are triggered in the same area of the braid as GOD! Maybe that is why the twelve step program works so well, they get you off drugs and get you hooked on the higher power!

The only thing I count on in this world is myself, my loved ones and my friends and the other altruistic people in this world that believes like me.

We are the ones who don't wait for the government to show up after or before a disaster, we are the ones out there helping others, because we know in the long run, life and other humans and this Earth are all we have and I honor and love and respect that, not some god made up by other people.

If you feel the need for a god, go ahead, it isn't me.

 

[Minister of Truth]

No, people are stupid.

 

[Cancel5]

No, people are stupid.

Well, I like to give them the benefit of the doubt, I am a liberal!