Life After Death? Get real.

Dixie said:
I didn't start this thread, I am not 'trying to convince' people of anything. You make no sense, humans don't believe other humans are greater. Generally speaking, unless you ask someone specifically about a close family member, most humans rank themselves #1 as humans go.



I know you can justify this in your head as being the case, but it simply doesn't comport with reality of history. Millions upon millions of people have given their lives... died, for what they believed in regarding spiritual faith. Precisely because they didn't want to be obedient or follow the leader. Fear of the unknown is unrequited by belief in an afterlife, we still don't "know" what is after life, we are still uncertain about the future after life. So what you have is a fallacy, which makes perfect sense until you stop to think about it.



I agree, heaven and hell, if they exist, are not physical places. You can't "go" to heaven or hell. When you are there, it isn't inhabited by physical people in a physical realm. I believe these places exist, just not 'physically' as we understand 'physics.' They exist in another dimension, one we don't understand or comprehend. When we leave this existence, what we know as our "soul" travels into another dimension, and our direction is determined largely by how well we 'performed' in this life... (that's my personal belief.)
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Millions and millions of people are fooled all the time. Those millions and millions of people who gave their lives to defy one set of tenets usually had a new set of tenets they were fighting for...and a new leader and shaman, priest whose belief system they were now following. The majority of wars have been fought over religious beliefs tied to empire building.



We are indoctrinated by our parents in their belief system of the afterlife and what it holds and whether it is a physical place or a spiritual place, later accept their premise or form our own, again, based on what someone else has told us is true. If you had been born in India, would you still be a Christian, not very likely! If we each had our own relationship with a divine being, there would be no need for churches. See, your idea of heaven is far different from other Christians, Islam and what some Jews believe. There are those religions who believe heaven is a physical place.

To your answer to Zombie, my children are more valuable to me than my own life and I would probably try to save my mother, dad and husband, too not thinking of myself in the process. I am not a self centered human and have been in a situation where i did not think of myself, only the child who was with me. It is my belief that my children's lives are more valuable than mine, it is my love for the others that would have me risk my own life for them!
 
froggie said:
Millions and millions of people are fooled all the time. Those millions and millions of people who gave their lives to defy one set of tenets usually had a new set of tenets they were fighting for...and a new leader and shaman, priest whose belief system they were now following. The majority of wars have been fought over religious beliefs tied to empire building.
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Even more the reason to conclude, mankind has a strong passion and desire to follow this universal belief in something greater. Why? Why is this such a strong attribute in humans? Of course there have been differences of opinion on what that "something greater" is, but the fundamental belief that something IS greater than self, is pretty much universal.

We are indoctrinated by our parents in their belief system of the afterlife and what it holds and whether it is a physical place or a spiritual place, later accept their premise or form our own, again, based on what someone else has told us is true. If you had been born in India, would you still be a Christian, not very likely! If we each had our own relationship with a divine being, there would be no need for churches. See, your idea of heaven is far different from other Christians, Islam and what some Jews believe. There are those religions who believe heaven is a physical place.
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I agree, many religious believers can be completely inaccurate with their understanding and interpretation of their own religious teachings. I am not here to carry a banner for any religious viewpoint, because I am Spiritual not Religious. There is a difference.

To your answer to Zombie, my children are more valuable to me than my own life and I would probably try to save my mother, dad and husband, too not thinking of myself in the process. I am not a self centered human and have been in a situation where i did not think of myself, only the child who was with me. It is my belief that my children's lives are more valuable than mine, it is my love for the others that would have me risk my own life for them!
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As I said, unless you are talking about specific family members, most humans put themselves ahead of most everyone else, as humans go. We generally don't sacrifice our own life for the life of another, and don't want to ever be faced with that choice. Regardless of what your personal thoughts may be on who you would make that sacrifice for, in most instances, you will choose self-preservation.
 
Don't buy Dixie's bull about being spiritual and not religious. We have a couple of examples of arguments between Dixie and Maineman arguing who's the better Christian. Not to mention, being "spiritual" isn't any less bullshit than being an evangelical Christian (which Dixie is).
 
ib1yysguy said:
Don't buy Dixie's bull about being spiritual and not religious. We have a couple of examples of arguments between Dixie and Maineman arguing who's the better Christian. Not to mention, being "spiritual" isn't any less bullshit than being an evangelical Christian (which Dixie is).
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Dunno about Dixie, but spiritualism is a widely followed New Age fad. Also, many people will evaluate how good a Christian they are based upon their knowledge of the tenets of the faith. They are speaking anecdotally.

I know you libs aren't religious people and may not understand the differences, but that's just one example...
 
Put the libs in the box, make them all the same, it is easier that way, not seeing people as individuals but as object, much like an infant. The age of reason is what, about eight, where we as humans are no longer egocentric, right?
 
froggie said:
Put the libs in the box, make them all the same, it is easier that way, not seeing people as individuals but as object, much like an infant. The age of reason is what, about eight, where we as humans are no longer egocentric, right?
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umm I think that age of reason is about 40 now in the USA.
 
Dixie said:
I didn't start this thread, I am not 'trying to convince' people of anything. You make no sense, humans don't believe other humans are greater. Generally speaking, unless you ask someone specifically about a close family member, most humans rank themselves #1 as humans go.



I know you can justify this in your head as being the case, but it simply doesn't comport with reality of history. Millions upon millions of people have given their lives... died, for what they believed in regarding spiritual faith. Precisely because they didn't want to be obedient or follow the leader. Fear of the unknown is unrequited by belief in an afterlife, we still don't "know" what is after life, we are still uncertain about the future after life. So what you have is a fallacy, which makes perfect sense until you stop to think about it.



I agree, heaven and hell, if they exist, are not physical places. You can't "go" to heaven or hell. When you are there, it isn't inhabited by physical people in a physical realm. I believe these places exist, just not 'physically' as we understand 'physics.' They exist in another dimension, one we don't understand or comprehend. When we leave this existence, what we know as our "soul" travels into another dimension, and our direction is determined largely by how well we 'performed' in this life... (that's my personal belief.)
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Most people understand the value of a cooperative network of individuals. Except you, you prefer god delusions that tell people to value invisible beings and kill fellow humans with whom it would be more rational and beneficial to cooperate.

God = hate.

Soul = conceit.
 
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Life after death? More importantly, is there life BEFORE death or is it just an existence? Of course no one will admit to the latter but as a casual observer I have looked in vain for the vital signs in Americans!
Because Americans do not really understand the nature of life they find it easier than most to take those lives that do not belong to them.
 
Lowaicue said:
Life after death? More importantly, is there life BEFORE death or is it just an existence? Of course no one will admit to the latter but as a casual observer I have looked in vain for the vital signs in Americans!
Because Americans do not really understand the nature of life they find it easier than most to take those lives that do not belong to them.
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Our murderous government is not the people. Our democracy is a sham. OUr leaders are chosen by the military industrial complex.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Most people understand the value of a cooperative network of individuals. Except you, you prefer god delusions that tell people to value invisible beings and kill fellow humans with whom it would be more rational and beneficial to cooperate.

God = hate.

Soul = conceit.
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No ass, I prefer "truth" over anything else. I look around at the wonder and splendor of this beautiful planet full of life, and I can't rationalize it being merely the product of chance. When I observe the phenomenon of human behavior, I understand it must follow the same pattern with humans as with all other animals, and there must be a valid reason for our behavior. When I study the fact that humans have always had a strong and profound connection to spiritual belief, I have to conclude there is a valid reason for it. Simplistic explanations like, "people just fear the unknown", are not going to be considered "valid" to me, I need a clear unequivocal answer.

Now I start to look at individuals, and I see millions upon millions, who will testify that spiritual faith saved their life, or radically changed their life for the better. I also see millions of examples of people who live in miserable despair and hopelessness, because they have lost all spiritual connection. I'll bet, if we could take the "anti-believers" here, and pump some truth serum in them, we could reveal a multitude of things they are not happy or content with in their lives. It is this discontent, frustration, and sense of despair, which prompts them to post threads like this, and continually attack people with strong belief in their faith.

Think about it... people who are strongly devoted to their faith, are not likely going to read some mindless rant by an Atheist, here or anywhere else, and suddenly change or alter what they fundamentally believe. So, the intent and purpose of such a rant, is seemingly pointless. However, human behavior always has a reason, and the rants serve to vent the frustrations and despair of being in the spiritual wilderness.
 
Lowaicue said:
Life after death? More importantly, is there life BEFORE death or is it just an existence? Of course no one will admit to the latter but as a casual observer I have looked in vain for the vital signs in Americans!
Because Americans do not really understand the nature of life they find it easier than most to take those lives that do not belong to them.
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I love it! Life before death, so many people miss this life waiting for the next, very sad in my opinion. I love my hedonistic life! I try to live it to the fullest.
 
froggie said:
I love it! Life before death, so many people miss this life waiting for the next, very sad in my opinion. I love my hedonistic life! I try to live it to the fullest.
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Most human beings do not have the luxury to "live" as Low put it. Most of us are just trying to survive each day. People like you and I that can choose to be hedonists would be quite foolish to say that we live and others merely exist...
 
Threedee said:
Most human beings do not have the luxury to "live" as Low put it. Most of us are just trying to survive each day. People like you and I that can choose to be hedonists would be quite foolish to say that we live and others merely exist...
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I know, good thoughts, but even the poorest of poor can unwind by being skyclad in the Moonlight! Dance your cares away! And music, it is always what keeps us sane, or at least myself!
 
Threedee said:
Most human beings do not have the luxury to "live" as Low put it. Most of us are just trying to survive each day. People like you and I that can choose to be hedonists would be quite foolish to say that we live and others merely exist...
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You need to be affluent to be a hedonist?

Amazing concept, but wrong.

It is all in the attitude.
 
froggie said:
I know, good thoughts, but even the poorest of poor can unwind by being skyclad in the Moonlight! Dance your cares away! And music, it is always what keeps us sane, or at least myself!
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Okay... think about that for a moment. How can you, an intelligent and thinking human, possibly conclude that something as profoundly beautiful as music and all art, for that matter, is the result of mere chemical happenstance, and not an intelligent designer? Sure, music and art was created by man, but doesn't that prove the point even more? That we are so compelled as humans, to "create" things of beauty.... why? Some of these things evoke emotions which can't even be described or put into words, sentiments, feelings, touching something deep inside us, that we really can't "explain" ....you know?

When you have a strong spiritual foundation, you understand much more. You are stuck largely in a 'material' world, where you need to feel good and unwind... take some pills... have a drink... get naked... etc. Those of us with a strong spiritual foundation, don't have this same urge to "unwind" as you.

It's because you have a void in your life, something is missing, it is your core spiritual belief, but you are in denial of that. You will probably either die never understanding what is missing in your life, or you will eventually find it is your spiritual core. In the meantime, you will fill this void with a feeling of need for drugs, alcohol, sex, pills, porn... whatever. ...to Unwind!
 
Dixie said:
Okay... think about that for a moment. How can you, an intelligent and thinking human, possibly conclude that something as profoundly beautiful as music and all art, for that matter, is the result of mere chemical happenstance, and not an intelligent designer? Sure, music and art was created by man, but doesn't that prove the point even more? That we are so compelled as humans, to "create" things of beauty.... why? Some of these things evoke emotions which can't even be described or put into words, sentiments, feelings, touching something deep inside us, that we really can't "explain" ....you know?

When you have a strong spiritual foundation, you understand much more. You are stuck largely in a 'material' world, where you need to feel good and unwind... take some pills... have a drink... get naked... etc. Those of us with a strong spiritual foundation, don't have this same urge to "unwind" as you.

It's because you have a void in your life, something is missing, it is your core spiritual belief, but you are in denial of that. You will probably either die never understanding what is missing in your life, or you will eventually find it is your spiritual core. In the meantime, you will fill this void with a feeling of need for drugs, alcohol, sex, pills, porn... whatever. ...to Unwind!
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This is what those who believe in a supernatural being who watches over them believe, that those of us who do not believe in the same manner that they believe do not have a full and peaceful life in the same manner that you do.

It is most unfortunate that you are so judgmental. If you were truly at peace, you would not feel the need to judge other and feel superior.

I have seen the belief in god(s) change lives and I have also see this same belief ruin people's lives. To me, no one knows.

We are finding out more all the time about the workings of our bodies. Humans use to believe that the human body could be possessed by demons because they did not understand mental illness in the same way that we do these days. they use to burn humans at the stake or drown them because they thought that they were witches.

In the animal kingdom primates sing duets, gibbons, look up the study. There are also gorilla's that paint and use sign language, the gibbons songs are unique in each couple that sing the duets, it differs from bird call that are
learned by young from the adults and with most species never vary in form.

Remember Koko and another gorilla, Michael who painted to express their feelings and their surroundings? Koko also took to a kitty when she was in mourning.

I believe the body is a very complicated chemical process which we are only being to understand.

I don't need a higher power for my happiness. I haven't seen any changes in my life since I left the ideas of a God that you had to pray and obey, who would watch over you and answers your prayers behind and have decided it is a mystery of no one really knows. I invest my time and talent in loving my family and friends. I am a good citizen and a community volunteer most of my life. I took off a little time to deal with cancer. You would think that if I needed a god and comfort, it would have been in the last three years, but I never felt the need to pray and ask for help and return to my religion.

I try to live in peace and harmony with my fellow humans, animals and the Earth, I just do no wrong and I am no happier or unhappier than my family members who have a deep faith in the Biblegod. I have been married for 31 years have four wonderful children, two beautiful grand babies, my mom and dad are still alive and well.

I like myself, I am happy and have a whole lot of people who love me, I am very fortunate!
 
AssHatZombie said:
The point is heaven and hell are not in the bible.
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It seems clear to me that you've never actually read the Bible. Anyway, I may not be able to convince you that life after death exists, but can you prove that it doesn't exist? Didn't think so.
 
I don't need a higher power for my happiness.
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This is a common thing I hear from people who have disavowed their spiritual foundation, as if they are trying to 'convince' themselves it is the truth. Being in touch with your spiritual core, has nothing to do with a "need" you have. You have proven that people can live without a spiritual core. It's about what your spiritual core provides you that you don't even realize you need. It's about the inherent primal instinct you have as a human, to have a spiritual foundation, a source to base your purpose, something on which to build your moral character. This is something you can function without, but your life will be full of a murky underlying frustration of not reaching your full potential, a (sometimes subconscious) feeling of something missing or incomplete. People can find all kinds of creative ways to remain in denial, they prove this on a daily basis. You can turn your back on your spiritual foundation, and still convince others you are a happy well-balanced individual... congrats, we owe you an Oscar!

Froggie, your entire reply is a plea for help, and you don't even realize it. You are so empty in your little "happy" world, you can't hardly deal with it sometimes. You call it all kinds of things.... stress... drama... life... but as much as you search for relief from it, as much as you drink, or pop... you can't find solace. I know people who have carefully balanced a story-book life, without the first notion of belief in a higher power. Inside, they are like the most miserable people you've ever met. Jealousy, Pride, Hate, Envy, Lies... Playing a virtual "devil's symphony" in their hearts, and they are totally blind to it. They can't see the light because they extinguished the light long ago.

...I like myself
...I am happy
...I have a whole lot of people who love me
...I am very fortunate!
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Without a spiritual foundation, you have chosen to tell us here...
...I am happy because that is my #1 Priority in Life!
...I also know I have convinced others that I am a nice person. That's #2 Priority.
...I am fortunate to be so in love with myself as to denounce my god! (see #1 Priority)
 
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