lose everything in anatural disastor and lose your vote
- Thread starter evince
- Start date
They don't have carte blanche to set laws though. Their government is chock full of democrat, the laws that they pass must have some responsibility with that party.
There's a difference between electoral fraud by party operatives and elected county officials and citizen voters.
For the former, there is a long history of ballot box stuffing, throwing away votes, and vote suppression.
For average voting citizens, there's virtually no evidence of fraud. Bush's own FBI did a 5 year investigation, and found virtually no evidence that citizen voters were committing fraud.
Yet, here we see average citizen voters being taken to task, while the ones who are actually responsible for legitimately scrubbing voters lists - county and state agencies - are given slack.
On June 15, Secretary of State Jay Dardenne announced that his agency was mailing notices to 53,554 voters saying they must give up their registration in other states or risk losing the right to vote in Louisiana.
Why that's just insane!!! They should be able to vote as many times as they want and in as many states as possible.
Why that's just insane!!! They should be able to vote as many times as they want and in as many states as possible.
Its the wrong solution, to an ill-defined problem.
It would be akin to going after bicyclists, to address a problem with car drivers speeding. Voters aren't the ones responsible for scrubbing their names, from the voter registration lists in their previous county or states of residence. That's the responsiblity of State agencies.
Wtf? What have libertarians to do with this?
I am in agreement with Cypress and Desh. There is an assumption of guilt prior to even the possibility of the act. Hard to be less libertarian.
uscitizen
Villified User
Is voting in multiple states forbidden in the constitution ?
And I imagine most voter fraud, past or present, is due to coercion or strenuous encouragement by the parties, who are now virtually an extension of the state. The overwhelming majority of voters do not care so much that they would bother, even if they lacked the sense that it is ethically questionable. To assume guilt here, without prrof otherwise, is absurd.
It is almost always a party apparatus that sets up voter fraud, rarely do citizens actually try to fraudulently vote.
Most of the laws are for the citizen to feel that the vote actually stands for something, to show the strength of the system.
I have not yet offered an argument on the basis of constitutionality, so what is your point? Further, how does this then relate to your ridiculous assertion that this an application of libertarianism.
The problem of unscrubbed voter lists, (if its even a problem, remember this is a partisan republican doing this) is the fault of State agencies. Not of individual voter citizens.
Voting is a fundamental social compact in this country. If there are administrative problems, the burden is on the counties and states to fix it. They're the ones who should have the information, and ability to legitimately scrub voter lists. Its Not legitimate for the government to presume guilt, of individual citizens. Its more big government intrusion into private american's lives.
I mean, think about the standard of susipicion they're using: That you have the same name and birthdate as someone in another state. Do you know how many John Roberts there are in the U.S., with the same birthday?
I'd be pissed if I was a John Roberts, and I got a letter from the government saying I had 30 DAYS to prove I was a real voter, simply because some other dude in another state had the same name and birthday as me. That's B.S.
uscitizen
Villified User
LOL, wel most of your other libertarian arguments are based on the consittution and i was under the impression that what the constitution says or does not say is the basis for the libertarian party. Ohh my bad Paul is a Republican, I forgot.
uscitizen
Villified User
absolutely not.
There's virtually no evidence that citizen voters are registering in mulitple states, or under the names of dead people, to actually cast fraudelent votes.
When you register to vote in a new county, you are required to provide the address of where you were previously registered to vote. That's where your responsibility and accountability stops. From there, its up to the county and state to make sure you get scrubbed from the voter rolls of your previous state. Its not your responsibility to prove to the government, that the County actually did the job it is paid to do.
First, we have to accept the word of a partisan repubican Secretary of State, that this is acutally a legitimate problem.
Second, if it is a problem, its a problem that can be fixed by counties and states with the information they already posses. They don't need to issue new national nazi ID cards.
I have no clue where you got that.
You are under the wrong impression. The constitution is mostly silent on how states should operate. Libertarians are not. For instance, there is a constitutional argument against the drug war at the federal level. There is no basis for the federal power (outside of REAL interstate commerce in drugs). However, a state may consitutionally enact laws prohibiting it. But as a libertarian I would denounce those laws as infringment on the individual.
The basis of libertarianism is that no man or group of men may rightfully agress, through force or fraud, against the person or property of another.
"State's rights" are only important to divide power in a limited government. They offer some measure of protection, though it is not sufficient and probably can not ever be made so.
evince
Truthmatters
Do you know what vote caging is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caging_list
Examples of proven or alleged political caging
From the Washington Post: "In 1981, the Republican National Committee sent letters to predominantly black neighborhoods in New Jersey, and when 45,000 letters were returned as undeliverable, the committee compiled a challenge list to remove those voters from the rolls. The RNC sent off-duty law enforcement officials to the polls and hung posters in heavily black neighborhoods warning that violating election laws is a crime."
The Washington Post[11]: "In 1986, the RNC tried to have 31,000 voters, most of them black, removed from the rolls in Louisiana when a party mailer was returned. The consent decrees that resulted prohibited the party from engaging in anti-fraud initiatives that target minorities or conduct mail campaigns to 'compile voter challenge lists.'" The Republican National Committee reportedly stopped the practice following the consent decree in the 1986 case, but allegations of RNC-conducted voter caging arose once again in the 2004 elections.
In October 2004, the BBC Newsnight program reported on an alleged George W. Bush campaign caging list, the existence of which suggested that the campaign might have been planning illegal disruption of African American voting in Jacksonville, Florida. The BBC obtained a document from George W. Bush's Florida campaign headquarters that was inadvertently e-mailed to the parody website GeorgeWBush.org. The program reported that the e-mail attachment contained a list of 1,886 voter names and addresses in largely African-American and Democratic areas of Jacksonville. Democratic Party officials and a number of journalists allege that the document is a caging list that the Bush campaign was going to use to issue mass challenges to African-American voters, in violation of the court ordered 1982 and 1987 consent decrees. Although Florida statutory law allows the parties to challenge voters at the polls, this practice is not allowed if the challenges appear to be race-based. Court documents produced during limited discovery in a challenge to use of cagings list in Ohio, revealed clear intent to use caging lists to challenge voters. Specifically, in the US District Court, District of New Jersey, Civil Action No. 81-3876, exhibit D, filed 10/29/04 and entitled "Declaration_of_Caroline_Hunter_and_emails_exh_d", emails exchanged between RNC operatives (Blaise Hazlewood, Caroline Hunter, Terry Nelson, and Tim Griffin), Bush-Cheney '04 campaign workers (Christopher Guith, Coddy Johnson, Robert Paduchik, and Dave DenHerder) and the Ohio Republican Party personnel (Mike Magan) revealed involvement of these entities in caging operations and intent to utilize the caging lists to challenge ballots in Ohio and other states[12]. Furthermore, these email exchanges also revealed concern about GOP fingerprints with ballot challenges based on caging lists in states that did not have flagged voter rolls[13]. The concern about GOP involvement in the email sent by Tim Griffin to Christopher Guith and others may have reflected knowledge of the fact that the RNC is prohibited by Consent Decrees from involvement in ballot security measures such as caging, when the measures have racial bias. Regardless of the intent of caging list design, there are no documented voter challenges based on caging lists in the 2004 elections.
The list came to light because of numerous e-mails accidentally addressed by, among others, Republican campaigners to the georgewbush.org anti-Bush site instead of the georgewbush.com Bush campaign site. Two of these e-mails had the subject line "Re: Caging" and contained Microsoft Excel spreadsheet file attachments called "Caging.xls" and "Caging-1.xls".[14][15].
Investigative reporter Greg Palast initially received the emails from the owner of georgewbush.org, and in a recent interview has drawn a link to the scandal surrounding the Alberto Gonzales U.S. Attorney firings, claiming that the firings are part of a wider effort by Republicans to use caging to "steal the 2008 election."[16]
There is a prooven history of vote caging in the republican party and this would be a perfect opportunity for then to repete the illegal tactic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caging_list
Examples of proven or alleged political caging
From the Washington Post: "In 1981, the Republican National Committee sent letters to predominantly black neighborhoods in New Jersey, and when 45,000 letters were returned as undeliverable, the committee compiled a challenge list to remove those voters from the rolls. The RNC sent off-duty law enforcement officials to the polls and hung posters in heavily black neighborhoods warning that violating election laws is a crime."
The Washington Post[11]: "In 1986, the RNC tried to have 31,000 voters, most of them black, removed from the rolls in Louisiana when a party mailer was returned. The consent decrees that resulted prohibited the party from engaging in anti-fraud initiatives that target minorities or conduct mail campaigns to 'compile voter challenge lists.'" The Republican National Committee reportedly stopped the practice following the consent decree in the 1986 case, but allegations of RNC-conducted voter caging arose once again in the 2004 elections.
In October 2004, the BBC Newsnight program reported on an alleged George W. Bush campaign caging list, the existence of which suggested that the campaign might have been planning illegal disruption of African American voting in Jacksonville, Florida. The BBC obtained a document from George W. Bush's Florida campaign headquarters that was inadvertently e-mailed to the parody website GeorgeWBush.org. The program reported that the e-mail attachment contained a list of 1,886 voter names and addresses in largely African-American and Democratic areas of Jacksonville. Democratic Party officials and a number of journalists allege that the document is a caging list that the Bush campaign was going to use to issue mass challenges to African-American voters, in violation of the court ordered 1982 and 1987 consent decrees. Although Florida statutory law allows the parties to challenge voters at the polls, this practice is not allowed if the challenges appear to be race-based. Court documents produced during limited discovery in a challenge to use of cagings list in Ohio, revealed clear intent to use caging lists to challenge voters. Specifically, in the US District Court, District of New Jersey, Civil Action No. 81-3876, exhibit D, filed 10/29/04 and entitled "Declaration_of_Caroline_Hunter_and_emails_exh_d", emails exchanged between RNC operatives (Blaise Hazlewood, Caroline Hunter, Terry Nelson, and Tim Griffin), Bush-Cheney '04 campaign workers (Christopher Guith, Coddy Johnson, Robert Paduchik, and Dave DenHerder) and the Ohio Republican Party personnel (Mike Magan) revealed involvement of these entities in caging operations and intent to utilize the caging lists to challenge ballots in Ohio and other states[12]. Furthermore, these email exchanges also revealed concern about GOP fingerprints with ballot challenges based on caging lists in states that did not have flagged voter rolls[13]. The concern about GOP involvement in the email sent by Tim Griffin to Christopher Guith and others may have reflected knowledge of the fact that the RNC is prohibited by Consent Decrees from involvement in ballot security measures such as caging, when the measures have racial bias. Regardless of the intent of caging list design, there are no documented voter challenges based on caging lists in the 2004 elections.
The list came to light because of numerous e-mails accidentally addressed by, among others, Republican campaigners to the georgewbush.org anti-Bush site instead of the georgewbush.com Bush campaign site. Two of these e-mails had the subject line "Re: Caging" and contained Microsoft Excel spreadsheet file attachments called "Caging.xls" and "Caging-1.xls".[14][15].
Investigative reporter Greg Palast initially received the emails from the owner of georgewbush.org, and in a recent interview has drawn a link to the scandal surrounding the Alberto Gonzales U.S. Attorney firings, claiming that the firings are part of a wider effort by Republicans to use caging to "steal the 2008 election."[16]
There is a prooven history of vote caging in the republican party and this would be a perfect opportunity for then to repete the illegal tactic
evince
Truthmatters
What the state is doing is asking people who have had to relocate several times after having lost EVERYTHING in a natural disaster to within 30 days respond to a piece of paper they very well may have never recieved.
It will come election day they will fill out their absentee voting from with their choses to NEVER even know that their vote was NOT counted because that Piece of paper they were supposed to respond to was never sent to the right address and had DO NOT FORWARD printed on the front of it.
This is What vote caging is!
This has been Done Before by the Republican party.
They were caught red handed doing it in 1981 and 1986 and there are court cases ongoing where it is beig litigated to find if they did it again in 2000 and 2004.
The guy in charge of this action is a Republican in LA.
Why do you think black people dont like to vote for Republicans?
Every person who is sick of this republican party we have today should tell everyone they know that the Republican party has a KNOWN history of vote caging and was caught and punished for this in 1981 and 1986.
It will come election day they will fill out their absentee voting from with their choses to NEVER even know that their vote was NOT counted because that Piece of paper they were supposed to respond to was never sent to the right address and had DO NOT FORWARD printed on the front of it.
This is What vote caging is!
This has been Done Before by the Republican party.
They were caught red handed doing it in 1981 and 1986 and there are court cases ongoing where it is beig litigated to find if they did it again in 2000 and 2004.
The guy in charge of this action is a Republican in LA.
Why do you think black people dont like to vote for Republicans?
Every person who is sick of this republican party we have today should tell everyone they know that the Republican party has a KNOWN history of vote caging and was caught and punished for this in 1981 and 1986.