Lying Joe Biden & the Dems to eliminate fossil fuels making America Energy Dependent

[The Sage of Main Street]

Energy security is national security, because the opposite of energy independence is energy dependence, as we saw in the lead-up to and early days of Russia's war on Ukraine.

During the 2020 campaign, Biden earnestly pledged, "I want you to look at my eyes. I guarantee you, I guarantee you, we're going to end fossil fuel." He has worked to make good on that promise. His policies have driven the price of gas and electricity through the roof, threatening the lifeblood of our economy and our security.

The main sources of energy didn't change all that much from the days of Jesus's disciples to Our American Founders with the main sources of energy were wind, water, fire, and muscle. Then came coal, next came oil and gas, and finally nuclear power. The Industrial Revolution which in of itself made America the most powerful nation on earth, and that Revolution was sparked by fossil fuels which has yielded economic abundance unparalleled in human history.

Joe Biden and Obama promised that if somebody wants to build a coal-fired power plant, they can. It's just that it will bankrupt them. Obama also admitted that under his plan, "electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket." Hillary pledged that "we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business." Bernie Sanders and AOC want to ban hydraulic fracturing, the technology that enabled the U.S. to become the world's top oil and gas producer over the past 2 decades. They also propose a "Green New Deal" to eliminate fossil fuels and nuclear power entirely in the next decade. Joe's cancellation of the Keystone pipeline helped make him America's worst president and unfortunately helped to make America fully energy dependent.

The Green New Deal Is a Dead Man's Hand

Pandemic viruses can only survive in what superstitious nature-worshippers call "Clean Air." Auto emissions had wiped out all mass-killing viruses for a hundred years until Fauci's Lethal Lockdown.

The Spanish Influenza was stopped cold once the growing use of automobiles reached a certain level of "pollution," a mindless and dishonest term taken from pagan rituals. It was the only plague in history that was one-and-done. The Black Death (bubonic plague) started in 1348 and retuned in 1361, 1369, and 1374. That's the way killer Nature worked until the invention of the internal-combustion engine defied its tyranny.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Right, but that runs in direct conflict with the profit motive of an oil company, which is the point.

The point is that it's not in an oil company's interest to increase the supply because it drives down the price, and thus, drives down the profit.

That's why they only extract the amount of oil necessary to achieve the highest profits, no more no less.

Oil company interests do not align with consumer interests. So until we nationalize it, or transition off it, we are always going to be subject to the whims of a cartel.

Yea, nationalization--that's the ticket!

Like Mexico did with Pemex. Mexico's oil industry is a sea of corruption, criminal theft, and environmental disasters.

Or, Venezuela's oil industry dropping production by nearly 70% due to inability to get spare parts for equipment, the loss of intellectual capital as all the skilled technicians, engineers, and such fled the country (or were locked up), and replaced by politically reliable hacks who were complete technical illiterates...

Or, Russia's / the Soviet Union's nationalization that resulted in mass corruption, incompetence, and inefficiency...

Nationalization doesn't align with anyone's interests but the government's.

 

[Flash]

If you want to keep the price per barrel permanently low, and thus keep gas prices permanently low, nationalization is the only route.

If nationalization lowers gas prices it has to be because they greatly increase production.

Is that your solution?

 

[Flash]

Yea, nationalization--that's the ticket!

Like Mexico did with Pemex. Mexico's oil industry is a sea of corruption, criminal theft, and environmental disasters.

Or, Venezuela's oil industry dropping production by nearly 70% due to inability to get spare parts for equipment, the loss of intellectual capital as all the skilled technicians, engineers, and such fled the country (or were locked up), and replaced by politically reliable hacks who were complete technical illiterates...

Or, Russia's / the Soviet Union's nationalization that resulted in mass corruption, incompetence, and inefficiency...

Nationalization doesn't align with anyone's interests but the government's.

If Venezuela's state oil companies are doing so great they wouldn't have just made agreements with foreign companies to help them increase production. Chevron will expand operations in Ven. as part of this partnership.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

If nationalization lowers gas prices it has to be because they greatly increase production.

Is that your solution?

No, nationalization means the government heavily subsidizes oil and raises taxes to pay for it.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

If Venezuela's state oil companies are doing so great they wouldn't have just made agreements with foreign companies to help them increase production. Chevron will expand operations in Ven. as part of this partnership.

They nationalized those corporation's property tossed their executives in Venezuela in prison for not going along with this landgrab, then expected the workers to carry on for less pay... After all, it was only fair and equal...

But, for the average Venezuelan, if you don't complain you might get a case of the CLAP once or twice a month...

 

[LV426]

If nationalization lowers gas prices it has to be because they greatly increase production.

Not necessarily.

Since nationalization would remove the US from the global oil market, the US can set the price of gas itself because it controls its own supply of oil.

The US is currently a net exporter of oil and natural gas combined:

Since 2018, however, the United States has been the largest producer of oil and gas in the world and a net exporter
https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim...producer-why-youre-going-pay-more-gas-anyway/

So if we held back all domestically-extracted natural gas and oil, we'd end up with more than we need.

 

[LV426]

Yea, nationalization--that's the ticket!

You can't whine about gas prices being high while also supporting an oil company's ability to make as much profit as possible.

Don't you see the dissonance there, or are you willfully blind to it?

There is no way to get permanently cheaper gas so long as oil companies are allowed to sell the oil they extract here in the global market.

 

[LV426]

Like Mexico did with Pemex. Mexico's oil industry is a sea of corruption, criminal theft, and environmental disasters.

Sounds just like how American oil companies operate here already.

Also, wasn't there another pipeline spill a month ago?

The Keystone pipeline leaked in Kansas. What makes this spill so bad?
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/17/1142675809/cleanup-for-keystone-pipeline-oil-spill-kansas

Talk about corruption and poor management...

 

[LV426]

Or, Venezuela's oil industry dropping production by nearly 70% due to inability to get spare parts for equipment, the loss of intellectual capital as all the skilled technicians, engineers, and such fled the country (or were locked up), and replaced by politically reliable hacks who were complete technical illiterates...

Incorrect.

What happened in Venezuela around 2012 is the exact same thing that happened in Texas, North Dakota, and Oklahoma in 2015-16; OPEC increased production so much that it tanked the price per barrel, and thus tanked Venezuela's tax revenue.

Like TX, ND, and OK, Venezuela also relied heavily on fossil fuel revenues to cover their budgets. When the price of oil dropped, so did Venezuela's revenue. The difference is that TX, ND, and OK had Uncle Sam to bail them out.

Had those states been independent countries, they would have fallen into the same state of chaos as Venezuela:

The Fed Just Changed Its Own Rules to Bail Out the Fossil Fuel Industry
https://truthout.org/articles/the-f...n-rules-to-bail-out-the-fossil-fuel-industry/

The point is that basing your economy around fossil fuels puts control of your economy in the hands of the cartel that dominates the market.

You people are just too fucking stupid to understand that.

 

[LV426]

Or, Russia's / the Soviet Union's nationalization that resulted in mass corruption, incompetence, and inefficiency..

I mean, my dude, you're describing how capitalist oil companies operate today.

One thing I love about Conservatives is that whenever the "free market" does something they don't want it to do, they blame socialism.

It's not socialism that is causing oil companies to cut production, it's capitalism that does that because when oil production is cut, the price goes up. When oil production is increased, the price goes down.

Now what company on earth would deliberately lower their own profits?

 

[LV426]

If Venezuela's state oil companies are doing so great they wouldn't have just made agreements with foreign companies to help them increase production. Chevron will expand operations in Ven. as part of this partnership.

I love how you morons scream about Venezuela without knowing the first thing about it.

The reason Venezuela had chaos in the early 2010's was because their economy was as heavily dependent on fossil fuel revenue as US states like Texas, North Dakota, and Oklahoma. In the early 2010's, the price of oil was high, so Venezuela, an oil producing nation, saw high revenues because of that.

Now, Venezuela did not have a diversified economy because they believed that they could base their economy around fossil fuel extraction...now does that sound familiar? It should because it's all you idiots have been wanting the entire time.

But when the price of fossil fuel takes a dive, what happens to their revenue? It also takes a dive, and thus creates deficits in the budget so the government can't meet its obligations. When that happened in 2015-16 in TX, OK, and ND, the federal government bailed them out.

Venezuela didn't have a federal government to bail it out, which is why it descended into that.

None of you people know anything about this subject.

You're running your mouths just to run them.

 

[Flash]

Not necessarily.

Since nationalization would remove the US from the global oil market, the US can set the price of gas itself because it controls its own supply of oil.

The US is currently a net exporter of oil and natural gas combined:

Since 2018, however, the United States has been the largest producer of oil and gas in the world and a net exporter
https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim...producer-why-youre-going-pay-more-gas-anyway/

So if we held back all domestically-extracted natural gas and oil, we'd end up with more than we need.

The government setting the price results in reduced supply. Competition is lost in a regulated market. We became the largest producer through capitalism, not government control. I don't think we can remove ourselves from the global oil market.

 

[Flash]

I love how you morons scream about Venezuela without knowing the first thing about it.

The reason Venezuela had chaos in the early 2010's was because their economy was as heavily dependent on fossil fuel revenue as US states like Texas, North Dakota, and Oklahoma. In the early 2010's, the price of oil was high, so Venezuela, an oil producing nation, saw high revenues because of that.

Now, Venezuela did not have a diversified economy because they believed that they could base their economy around fossil fuel extraction...now does that sound familiar? It should because it's all you idiots have been wanting the entire time.

But when the price of fossil fuel takes a dive, what happens to their revenue? It also takes a dive, and thus creates deficits in the budget so the government can't meet its obligations. When that happened in 2015-16 in TX, OK, and ND, the federal government bailed them out.

Venezuela didn't have a federal government to bail it out, which is why it descended into that.

None of you people know anything about this subject.

You're running your mouths just to run them.

All of your trash is irrelevant to the fact that the government run Venezuelan oil industry cannot efficiently extract and process its own oil. Having a diversified economy may help the Venezuelan economy but does nothing to help their oil industry.

Pretending you know more about Venezuelan oil is not convincing since your answer was about a diversified economy and not oil.

 

[LV426]

The government setting the price results in reduced supply.

How so? The only oil extracted by the government would be the exact amount of oil that we would consume.

We know what that amount is already, so we simply just increase or decrease production to hit that amount.

Oil extraction then ceases to be about revenue and profit and instead is wholly about demand.

Competition is lost in a regulated market.

Competition...in what regard?

Because as far as I can tell, there haven't been very many advances in the world of oil extraction lately.

In fact, they use a lot of old tech.

So what "competition" are you talking about?

We became the largest producer through capitalism

No.

No, no, no, no.

We The People don't produce anything. Oil companies do.

*We The People* aren't the largest producer, multinational oil companies are and we don't get to see any of that profit, but we are on the hook for their losses.

You keep thinking like you have skin in the game, but you don't.

We The People only control what we buy for the strategic reserve.

So you continue to fuck up your argument for yourself because a) you don't know what you're talking about and b) you are a hyper-reactive centrist.

I don't think we can remove ourselves from the global oil market.

We can by nationalizing the industry.

Doing so would get us out from underneath OPEC's boot.

Because in the global market, OPEC decides what the price per barrel is and they achieve that by adjusting their production.

 

[LV426]

All of your trash is irrelevant to the fact that the government run Venezuelan oil industry cannot efficiently extract and process its own oil.

It was doing perfectly fine when the price of oil was high...but the moment the price of oil dropped, so did the revenue in their budget.

So once again, I am having to explain capitalism to morons because for some unknown reason, your pea brain cannot comprehend the principle of supply & demand.

 

[Flash]

It was doing perfectly fine when the price of oil was high...but the moment the price of oil dropped, so did the revenue in their budget.

So once again, I am having to explain capitalism to morons because for some unknown reason, your pea brain cannot comprehend the principle of supply & demand.

A decline in revenue made them forgot how to produce oil? Silly assumption.

 

[LV426]

Having a diversified economy may help the Venezuelan economy but does nothing to help their oil industry.

Their oil industry was perfectly fine for years until OPEC decided to screw around with the global supply.

After they did that, Venezuela had no chance.

The reason they need outside help today is because a decade of low oil prices completely upended their budgets, just like what happened in TX, OK, and ND 7 years ago.

So you're trying to blame socialism for capitalism's utter failure.

 

[LV426]

Pretending you know more about Venezuelan oil is not convincing since your answer was about a diversified economy and not oil.

I know more about it than you do...for instance, you seem to think their oil industry has always had these problems, but that's not the case.

Their oil industry slayed for years until OPEC decided to screw around with the global supply.

Venezuela did exactly what you wanted them to do: extract oil and sell it globally.

But when the price of oil craters, like it did in the early 2010's, Venezuela can't close its budget gaps because it relied on fossil fuel revenue just like you assholes want for us.

So like I said, you don't know anything about this and I'm not pretending like you are projecting here.

You are ignoring what happened in the early 2010's in Venezuela that produced the nation you see today because you are a reactionary centrist who has no fucking clue about anything.

 

[LV426]

A decline in revenue made them forgot how to produce oil? Silly assumption.

Stop being a sophist.

A decline in revenue as a result of OPEC increasing production which drove down the price per barrel because of supply & demand, a principle you don't seem to accept because you can't bOThSIdEs it.

If Venezuela increased production when OPEC did, then the value of what Venezuela extracted drops like a fucking rock and there is no way for Venezuela to stop that because they don't control the market. You can't dig yourself out of a hole, and you can't pump enough oil to make up for the losses in the price per barrel without driving the price down further.

Again, this is me explaining capitalism to a moron.