Manslaughter?

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Actually Watermark you made me THINK about what I think would be best and you are right Jail is NOT the answer. Instead for the next 3 years she should teach the dangers of not paying attention to your kids by recounting this story in its entirety to new and soon to be parents. I think that it would do her some good and it would educate parents about keeping an eye on their young children all the time. Especially when they are in the tub or around a pool etc.

Oh, I went off on a big tangent. Thanks for reading it all.

I was pretty pissy whenever I came home today.

 

[Damocles]

I'm not giving anyone crap, but you sure as fuck are giving me crap. I guess you can judge though because you're the blood parent of a child, you share much more in common with this women.

I don't think that after you are willing to leave your two children in a bath tub unattended, you probably are borderline not giving a fuck about them. Being someone that has cared for a child since she was the age of 6 months to two years, I think I can pretty much say that if you are going to do that, then your don't give a shit about your kids. Are you willing to do that Damo? If not then I don't think your little 'feed back' applyies to me. As a matter of fact, you are pretty much accusing me of not caring for this child enough that I wouldn't feel remorse and guilt for the rest of my life had I let her die in that situation. I already know how I would feel, but I wouldn't ever let it happen because I do care. This women, obviously doesn't.

I am also the adoptive parent of a child. I will tell you, the child is yours regardless, it was meant to point out how I found the dismissive nature of the "you have never taken care of a toddler" angle. I was attempting to jar you into seeing that you had done exactly this to another in the thread when you gave them the "if you had taken care of a toddler you would know" stuff. I pointed that out, but instead you chose to be "offended" rather than introspective so I did it again. I will cease that line as it isn't valid in either case. People care for children regardless of whether they had "taken care of a toddler" or if the child is theirs.

You did however judge another as less experienced because of this before. I used nearly the same language with a different added factor, I was surprised you didn't notice the parallels and it was there to point out that particular factor. LadyT, may not have cared for a Toddler, but it makes her opinion no less valid than yours.

You can feel no compassion for this lady? Why would prison make her life any better, or the child's death mean anything more? What good would it serve?

 

[Damocles]

I'm surprised that an adoptive father would say what you just said to Dave. He has clearly stated he loves this child as if it were his own, and you are dismissing that.

I am not. I simply used almost the exact phraseology that he used on LadyT with a different factor. It was meant exemplify the way he dismissed the opinion of another because he assumed that they "had never taken care of a toddler".

 

[Damocles]

I'm heading out before I get more pissed off, that was pretty offensive Damo.

It was meant to be. I was offended by the suggestion that those who had not cared for a toddler would have any less valid of an opinion in the discussion. The attempt was to get you to see that it may have been taken in such a way.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I'm just emotional on this subject.

America's just PRISON PRISON PRISON WE NEED MORE PRISON IT WILL SOLVE EVERYTHING DO THE CRIME DO THE TIME

Spouting out slogans like that. Sheesh...

Only give out prison whenever you can see it doing good. It's better to spend more money on prevention and better enforcment than just do an emotional thing like raise the sentence, or give out sentences freely like to this women.

 

[Damocles]

I disagree, it has nothing to do with whether or not Dave is a parent.

You are clearly wrong here.

Susan Smith was not in a self-imposed prison. Andrea yates, the list goes on. You are making the same mistake much of our culture makes, you are glorifying motherhood and mothers.

You are wrong to do so. Mothers can and do hurt their children, sometimes intentionally, and you don't even know that this is not the case here. The legal system must step in at that point.

Dangit. I wish people hadn't waited until I wasn't online for this.

Seriously, I was just giving him back what he had given another. I don't like it when people use this type of argument. Instead he just said, "I'm not doing it to anybody else!" Yet earlier he used that same argument to dismiss the opinion of another because they had not taken care of a toddler.

 

[Cancel7]

I am also the adoptive parent of a child. I will tell you, when the child is yours either way, blood or adoption, it will change how you feel. That is just experience. You did however judge another as less experienced because of this before. I used nearly the same language with a different added factor, I was surprised you didn't notice the parallels and it was there to point out that particular factor. LadyT, may not have cared for a Toddler, but it makes her opinion no less valid than yours.

You can feel no compassion for this lady? Why would prison make her life any better, or the child's death mean anything more? What good would it serve?

I'm really surprised at how you and Tiana have jumped to these conclusions based on absolutely nothing...except perhaps fear. Maybe you can put yourself in her place? What if you turn your back for a moment, and a lifetime of guilt and pain ensues? Well, that is something we all live with.

But that is different than what happened here, and you both are drawing conclusions based on nothing. This needs to be investigated. This woman has three other children. She walked out of a bathroom and left a 2 year old, and an 11 month old, in a tub of water. She left the floor, and went downstairs, for ten to 20 minutes.

Do you understand this? Do you understand this is not something that you turn your back and do by accident, a fear we can all understand? Do you understand this was a conscious decision? Do you understand this could have been a purposeful decision? Do you understand her kids need to be taken away for their own safety until this is fully investigated, and that yes, she may need to stand trial?

You know nothing, you have made conclusions. They rest on air. They rest I think partially on the natural fear anyone who is responsible for a child feels, and also partially on this American myth of the glory of mothers and the glorification of motherhood. Mothers kill their children. They are no better than fathers, naturally. There are bad mothers.

She defintitely is one, and she might be a criminal. She needs to be investigated.

 

[Damocles]

I disagree, it has nothing to do with whether or not Dave is a parent.

You are clearly wrong here.

Susan Smith was not in a self-imposed prison. Andrea yates, the list goes on. You are making the same mistake much of our culture makes, you are glorifying motherhood and mothers.

You are wrong to do so. Mothers can and do hurt their children, sometimes intentionally, and you don't even know that this is not the case here. The legal system must step in at that point.

Anyway.

My first assumption is that they are normal. She will have her day in court for this. My argument is that prison would serve the family and this woman very poorly. If the goal is to get the children the best care, and the woman the best chance prison is not the place for her.

And I was projecting how I would personally feel. It is one of those things taught to us as children. "Put yourself in their shoes."

 

[Cancel7]

Dangit. I wish people hadn't waited until I wasn't online for this.

Seriously, I was just giving him back what he had given another. I don't like it when people use this type of argument. Instead he just said, "I'm not doing it to anybody else!" Yet earlier he used that same argument to dismiss the opinion of another because they had not taken care of a toddler.

Try and get over yourself! I wasn't waiting for you to be offline, I was offline myseslf when you first posted it, ok? Geez. lol

 

[Cancel7]

Anyway.

My first assumption is that they are normal. She will have her day in court for this. My argument is that prison would serve the family and this woman very poorly. If the goal is to get the children the best care, and the woman the best chance prison is not the place for her.

And I was projecting how I would personally feel. It is one of those things taught to us as children. "Put yourself in their shoes."

I know what you were doing. I have spent a lot of time caring for my niece and nephew, and especially for my niece the first year of my nephew's life, for reasons it's pointless to get into here. But I know that fear. What if? What if you make that one stupid mistake in one careless moment? It's terrifying, and you know your life would pretty much end there.

But Damo, walking to another floor, for all of that time, that's not that moment. I was never afraid I was going to walk downstairs and cruise the internet while my niece drowned.

 

[Damocles]

I'm really surprised at how you and Tiana have jumped to these conclusions based on absolutely nothing...except perhaps fear. Maybe you can put yourself in her place? What if you turn your back for a moment, and a lifetime of guilt and pain ensues? Well, that is something we all live with.

The only conclusion that I "jumped" to was because of information given in the article. She was, IMO, clearly negligent of those two young children. I wouldn't leave even a two year old alone in a bathtub without supervision. She needed intervention long before this in the form of classes.

But that is different than what happened here, and you both are drawing conclusions based on nothing. This needs to be investigated. This woman has three other children. She walked out of a bathroom and left a 2 year old, and an 11 month old, in a tub of water. She left the floor, and went downstairs, for ten to 20 minutes.

I never said not to investigate. I said that I don't think prison would serve this family well. You again assume my opinion based on evidence not present.

Do you understand this? Do you understand this is not something that you turn your back and do by accident, a fear we can all understand? Do you understand this was a conscious decision? Do you understand this could have been a purposeful decision? Do you understand her kids need to be taken away for their own safety until this is fully investigated, and that yes, she may need to stand trial?

Yes, as I never stated that she shouldn't go to court and have her day, you have assumed a HUGE amount about me based on even less information.

You know nothing, you have made conclusions. They rest on air. They rest I think partially on the natural fear anyone who is responsible for a child feels, and also partially on this American myth of the glory of mothers and the glorification of motherhood. Mothers kill their children. They are no better than fathers, naturally. There are bad mothers.

Again, the only conclusion I have made is that she likely feels truly terrible. (Notice the word "likely") and that I do not believe that Prison is the answer from what information I have been given.

She defintitely is one, and she might be a criminal. She needs to be investigated.

And one more time. I have never suggested otherwise.

 

[DigitalDave]

Dangit. I wish people hadn't waited until I wasn't online for this.

Seriously, I was just giving him back what he had given another. I don't like it when people use this type of argument. Instead he just said, "I'm not doing it to anybody else!" Yet earlier he used that same argument to dismiss the opinion of another because they had not taken care of a toddler.

Damo, did you even read the whole message I put out there or did you just pick the one question out and assume I meant her opinion as less valid. In fact, the next sentence after the question said "Not that I think it makes you more qualified to assess the situation, but I do think you would feel the same way."

The question was worded in way were even if she babysat for a friend or something she might be able to recall it and remember the responsibility that was given to her,. It was not meant to be offensive and I even said that I was not trying to imply that her opinion was any more or less valid. You put your own interpretation on it however, then admittedly responded with an offensive insinuation that I don't understand because the child isn't my own.

 

[Damocles]

"Not that I think it makes you more qualified to assess the situation, but I do think you would feel the same way."

LOL> Not that I think it makes you less qualified, but I think it would make you think exactly as I do....



Even that is dismissive of her current opinion.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I changed my mind.

Kill 'er.

 

[Cypress]

Wow.

I'm glad I was generally deliberative and non-judgemental, stating that I didn't know all the facts of the case.

That way I can stay above the fray.

 

[Cancel7]

The only conclusion that I "jumped" to was because of information given in the article. She was, IMO, clearly negligent of those two young children. I wouldn't leave even a two year old alone in a bathtub without supervision. She needed intervention long before this in the form of classes.



I never said not to investigate. I said that I don't think prison would serve this family well. You again assume my opinion based on evidence not present.



Yes, as I never stated that she shouldn't go to court and have her day, you have assumed a HUGE amount about me based on even less information.



Again, the only conclusion I have made is that she likely feels truly terrible. (Notice the word "likely") and that I do not believe that Prison is the answer from what information I have been given.



And one more time. I have never suggested otherwise.

Ok, fine! I suppose that once again the language barrier reared its head!

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Language is a painful thing.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Not as painful as childbirth, however.

 

[Cancel7]

Language is a painful thing.

Yes, but, I have ordered some "Speak Cantonese in 30 days" tapes, so I have high hopes for Damo and I.

 

[Damocles]

Ok, fine! I suppose that once again the language barrier reared its head!

No, it is an assumption problem you seem to have. You read one thing, then just fill in whatever you think is the rest instead of asking. Most of our "misunderstandings" are based on what you think my opinion is rather than anything I have stated.