Moral Questions ...and No Answers

I have no problem with morality and decency. I teach it to my kids and practice it in my life. I, for one, think that this war of choice that you so proudly wave your pompoms for is one of the most immoral acts of our generation.

You just talk the talk....
 
Dixie said:
And some people don't care about turning back the hands of time, they just want to hang on to some sense of moral decency and self respect in society, and realize civilizations which fail to uphold some kind of moral standard, eventually crumble and fail. Then there are some who are like spoiled kids in a candy store, and just want more decadence and filth permeating their lives, and don't see why it's a big problem.... in fact, they will ridicule and scorn the 'adults' for trying to maintain some sense of morality and dignity.
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All civilizations eventually crumble and fail. Just study history.
 
Dixie said:
And some people don't care about turning back the hands of time, they just want to hang on to some sense of moral decency and self respect in society, and realize civilizations which fail to uphold some kind of moral standard, eventually crumble and fail. Then there are some who are like spoiled kids in a candy store, and just want more decadence and filth permeating their lives, and don't see why it's a big problem.... in fact, they will ridicule and scorn the 'adults' for trying to maintain some sense of morality and dignity.
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Actually, Dixie, it occurs to me that during the time you're referencing in your own life, at age 12 or 13, is a time when most of us are still depending heavily on the absolutes we've been taught by our parents, at school, and in our churches. We simply had't been exposed yet to the ugliness that really did exist around us, and anything we did hear of was so remote from our lives that it was like a fantasy that didn't touch us at all.

One of the hardest lessons I ever had to learn in my life was that other people weren't necessarily as moral or honest or considerate or whatever as I'd been brought up to believe we must be. Working in the prison system many years later was probably the best thing I've ever done for myself (besides that it paid my way through school:o ) because it put away forever any of those illusions that might have remained by then.

Life has never been the way we believed it was when we were growing up. We were shielded from most of it, either to protect us or to make us behave, or some combination of the two. There's no "Father Knows Best" and nobody's the Waltons. Sad but true.

That doesn't mean that each of us as individuals shouldn't try to live as we believe we should.
 
maineman said:
I have no problem with morality and decency. I teach it to my kids and practice it in my life. I, for one, think that this war of choice that you so proudly wave your pompoms for is one of the most immoral acts of our generation.

You just talk the talk....
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I know! It just makes me sick to see these kinds of people blathering on about morality and decency when they do so standing on top of the burnt bodies of children. Who gives a shit about Paris Hilton? WTF does that have to do with morality?
 
Dixie said:
The death of Anna Nicole Smith has made me think about our society. Thinking of her nightmare life and tragedy of it all, and just observing things I see everyday...

Isn't it amazing how much we have changed as a society, since when we were children? I can't speak for the younger people here, I am 47, so I have a little better recollection of the past. I can honestly say, when I was 12-13, the age we all start to socialize and mingle, I don't remember anyone who lived in a family without a mom, dad, brothers and sisters... In high school, and even into college, I didn't know that many people who's parents were single or divorced. Now, it seems to be the norm. If you are a teen in today's society, you most likely live in some kind of 'blended family'. If not, it's hanging on by a thread, both parents are unfaithful and on a path to self-destruction, and it's arguably a worse environment than divorce.

What happened? Where did we become socially indifferent to proper upbringing, manners, courtesy, dignity, honor, faithfulness, character, integrity, respect... self-respect? When did we become so morally bankrupt we can't seem to correct the path... we just seem to slide further into the abyss... further away from the solid foundations of moral integrity?

What will it take for us to 'wake up' and realize the error of our ways, or even more importantly, will we? Are we simply destined to continue in moral decay until our entire civilization crumbles? ...Because that is what history has shown will eventually happen. It seems to be 'in vogue' to ridicule, condemn, criticize, and parody those who speak out in support for good moral values. Why? What is the fundamental pinhead problem with observing some basic rules of moral principle and integrity? It's almost like we are irresponsible little children, we know good and well it's not right... but we're going to do it anywayzzz... nah-nah nah-nah-nah!

Every day we see it on TV... in the movies... in the news... It's always more bizarre and twisted.... You think THAT reality show was bad, wait 'til you see what this one does! ...You think Springer was outrageous, wait'll you see what we have tomorrow! Here'ya go America, another helping of even more perverse smut, filth, low moral integrity, and perverted garbage to pollute your brain with, while you remain oblivious to you addiction. Want MORE? We're working on it!

What else can we expect? We've brainwashed ourselves into believing the world of Ozzie and Harriet or Leave it to Beaver, is never coming back, it is an age of innocence lost forever. Is that the case? Can we never go home again? Have we so corrupted our destiny, to think we are incapable of recapturing some moral integrity, at some point in time?
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Yeah, life's going to hell in a handbasket! I'd be surprised if the human race lasts many more decades, with all the decadence and ungodliness.

lol

What you are doing is making a moral judgement according to your own criteria of what life should be like and failing to recognise that life, society, people has moved on.

There isn't less morality about, morality has simply changed, because it isn't fixed. We won't return to the morality of the 1950's any more than we will return to the Victorian morality of the 1850's.

I often refer to conservatives as regressive golden-agers, and this is a classic example, conservatism is intent on returning to some mythical golden age, when all was well with the world.....
 
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Dixie is simply showing his conservativism. Moral golden agers have been a mark of conservatism since Cato....
 
But Conservatism sure isn't what it used to be :)
Many cons wish for the return of the good ol days of conservatism within the Republican party.
 
Excuse me... I am someone who was born in '57 ..spent adolescence in the 60's and my teen years in the 70's. There is a HUGE difference! Growing up in the 60's I was allowed to wonder around in the neighborhood because my parents considered it safe ground. The community was different back then... everyone knew each other ..we all shared similar roots. Shoot...we even knew the first name of the local Crossing guard..which happened to be a Police Officer... thats right..back then Policemen were Crossing the kids... not Mothers.
Fast forward into the 80's when I raised my daughters... I wouldnt let them out of the yard unattended.... so what happened in 20 years? What was the difference? Dixie brings up valid points .... and you libs need to stop the name calling and Southern Insults... makes you look like the big elitists hypocrites that you are....
 
klaatu said:
Excuse me... I am someone who was born in '57 ..spent adolescence in the 60's and my teen years in the 70's. There is a HUGE difference! Growing up in the 60's I was allowed to wonder around in the neighborhood because my parents considered it safe ground. The community was different back then... everyone knew each other ..we all shared similar roots. Shoot...we even knew the first name of the local Crossing guard..which happened to be a Police Officer... thats right..back then Policemen were Crossing the kids... not Mothers.
Fast forward into the 80's when I raised my daughters... I wouldnt let them out of the yard unattended.... so what happened in 20 years? What was the difference? Dixie brings up valid points .... and you libs need to stop the name calling and Southern Insults... makes you look like the big elitists hypocrites that you are....
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Well, obviously desegregation is the problem.
 
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LadyT said:
Well, obviously desegregation is the problem.
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Not really ... although I did grow up in a predominately Italian neighborhood ...just a few blocks away from a predominately African American Neighborhood.., while in the 80's my kids grew up in a predominately "white" neighborhood. Schools were different...I went to a local Catholic grammar school.. while my kids were Bused to a public school.
 
klaatu said:
Fast forward into the 80's when I raised my daughters... I wouldnt let them out of the yard unattended.... so what happened in 20 years? What was the difference?
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You became irrationally paranoid because you bought into too much media hype about anger at white people and the dangers of multiculturalism.
 
Originally posted by Jarod
The leave it to beaver life never truely existed.
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Yes it did......and still does to some extent for some people. I try to provide that type of life for my kid. I want him to grow up in a loving household learning right from wrong. He will probably be just as apalled as I was when I grew up and saw a lot of the things that go on in the world......and are accepted as the norm. Things like abortion, shacking up, pre-marital sex, homosexuality, morals that say, "anything goes" or "If it feels good do it" etc. ... Things that according to the Bible, the guide for the fundamental Christian, were never meant to be accepted. He will be taught that these things are "out there" but eventually will have to face it on his own. There is no doubt that in my younger days you didn't hear that much about a lot of these things, whether that was good or bad.

I also have to agree that neighborhoods were safer when I was a kid. I lived in a mixed race neighborhood in a decent sized city. My friends were (and continue to be) black and Asians. We ran around the street and block until bedtime, long after dark, playing Hide and Seek and Stick Ball and stuff, never worrying nor our parents ever worrying about our safety from other humans (they might worry we'd hurt ourselves). Now when I go back to that neighborhood to visit, there is no way I'd let my 7 or 8 year old kid loose to play in the day time, much less after dark.

As to the divorce rate, I don't know whose statistics to believe, but I do believe this. While the divorce rate might have been close to the same, the number of single parents, at least of the kids where I went to school, a mixed race, inner city public school, was far less than it is right now where I teach, a rural area public school. We had fewer kids raised by their grandparents (grandparents weren't meant to be parents but that's another post) and fewer cases of juvenile delinquence as well.

While we have definitely progressed and taken care of some of this nation's ills, there is still a portion of the past that should have been held on to that wasn't. That's the part I want back. I don't believe I'll ever get it back but I'd like to.
 
leaningright said:
Yes it did......and still does to some extent for some people. I try to provide that type of life for my kid. I want him to grow up in a loving household learning right from wrong. He will probably be just as apalled as I was when I grew up and saw a lot of the things that go on in the world......and are accepted as the norm. Things like abortion, shacking up, pre-marital sex, homosexuality, morals that say, "anything goes" or "If it feels good do it" etc. ... Things that according to the Bible, the guide for the fundamental Christian, were never meant to be accepted. He will be taught that these things are "out there" but eventually will have to face it on his own. There is no doubt that in my younger days you didn't hear that much about a lot of these things, whether that was good or bad.

I also have to agree that neighborhoods were safer when I was a kid. I lived in a mixed race neighborhood in a decent sized city. My friends were (and continue to be) black and Asians. We ran around the street and block until bedtime, long after dark, playing Hide and Seek and Stick Ball and stuff, never worrying nor our parents ever worrying about our safety from other humans (they might worry we'd hurt ourselves). Now when I go back to that neighborhood to visit, there is no way I'd let my 7 or 8 year old kid loose to play in the day time, much less after dark.

As to the divorce rate, I don't know whose statistics to believe, but I do believe this. While the divorce rate might have been close to the same, the number of single parents, at least of the kids where I went to school, a mixed race, inner city public school, was far less than it is right now where I teach, a rural area public school. We had fewer kids raised by their grandparents (grandparents weren't meant to be parents but that's another post) and fewer cases of juvenile delinquence as well.

While we have definitely progressed and taken care of some of this nation's ills, there is still a portion of the past that should have been held on to that wasn't. That's the part I want back. I don't believe I'll ever get it back but I'd like to.
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I, on the other hand, have absolutely no desire to live in the Cleavers' world. I think it's unhealthy, immature and far too paternalistic. I don't want moral absolutes: I dislike, distrust and resent them.

The whole point of this thread is that the idea we're less safe today is mostly an illusion. It is an illusion born of self-deception and wishful thinking, a longing for something that never was what it seemed to be.
 
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